Riccardo

After some months (6) of gathering all information possible I have seen an interesting 964 for sale. It is a metallic black with black leather 1990 C2 with 65k miles and 3 owners. It also has 17" cup alloys and lowered suspension.

I drove the car and was very impressed with the ride and how taut and comfortable it felt. In general it was almost too quiet and civilised though!

The clutch has already been replaced, but stupidly enough with another dual mass one!The gearchange was good but a bit notchy.

The car has just been serviced and there are a few things wrong with it. First, the oil pressure sender does not work (always on max). Second there are some oil leaks. In fact, after driving it it did smell a bit of warm/burnt oil. Is this normal on 964s?

The current owner has spent money on the car and serviced it twice (in 6000 miles) but I can tell he is not fanatical about cars. I could feel that no wax had been applied to the paint and there inside was not spotless (saggy roof).

So, anyone have any thoughts? Does this seem like a good car?

Thank you for any comments!

Riccardo

horst

Riccardo, I have a 90C-4 and think it is quite civilized, and fun. The car you saw needs closer inspection, I think- If you have been checking this board for 6 months, then you know about the cyl oil leak Potential. Mine is dry as a bone, and never had the official Fix. The leaks should be looked at- The oil sending unit is a likely culprit- - that canbe checked by a careful cleaning, and then some stuff needs to be disassembled at the top of the engine, so you can peek at it- and replace it & the "o" ring while you are about it- It's really not that hard. Don't worry about the dual mass, as long as it was replaced with the newer LUK dual mass- such as I have- It is really not necessarily "stupid"- the camp is evenly split between those that prefer that vs. the lightweight flywheel which can give running problems- some have even opted to replace the lightweight one again for that reason. Other potential leaks that are easy are the valve covers. Once the beast gets sorted out, you will enjoy it. Use the faults as bargaining chips ! Horst

porsche964

Riccardo,

I agree with Horst's comments. My 1990 C4 has only a couple of very minor drips, but they are coming from the drain plugs. I test drove a 964 once that had the oil smell you mentioned, and the seller gave me the old "all Porsches leak" routine, and that car was leaking a bunch, however let me assure you that this is not case.

As for the flywheel, 90% of what I have heard and read recommends replacing the flywheel with another (upgraded, LUK) dual-mass ... installing the lightened flywheel can result in running and drivability problems.

If you don't mind my asking, what is the asking price for the car in question?

porsche964

...one more thing, you might want to inquire by what means / method the car has been lowered, and post this information to the board for comment. I think there are good and bad ways of lowering the C4.

jonfkaminsky

Riccardo-
Here is the info on the flywheel replacement
M64.01/1990 (model/year)
964.114.011.02/964.114.012.02 (orig/replace)
So, if you can take a look at the flywheel and determine its partnumber, if it matches the second number above (i.e., .012.) its the LUK and all is well. Mine was replaced with the 012 LUK at 43K and haven't a problem since...now at 60K mi.

You haven't mentioned price, I would expect for a straight body and good runner anywhere between 32K and 38K depending on options and interior. YMMV.

Riccardo

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your opinions. The car is for sale in England, hence the price will seem low for you. The vendor (private person) is asking the equivalent of $22,200 (£16,000) which I guess means I could bargain him down to about $20,800 (£15,000).

However, the car is a LHD (left hand drive) for sale in UK were all other cars are RHD, so it is seen as a disadvantage. An original equivalent UK car will cost about $27,750 (£20,000). In my opinion the LHD cars are much better anyways, so it is a happy compromise for me.

As for the suspension it has been lowered by using just springs (saw the bill, but cannot remeber the brand, it was a good one though). The ride seemed really good (could go over holes and bumps without problem even at speed, but we did drive only for about 20 mins.

Also, does anyone know if leather seats were standard on 964s? I got all the option codes but there was nothing about leather seats.

Thanks in advance

Riccardo

Jay H

Riccardo:

If I remember correctly, according to my 1990 US factory sales brochure, leather was standard, but cloth seats could be ordered. 'Supple' leather was also an option and carried it's own option code.

Hope this helps,

Jay
90 964 My 964

Randall G.

Hey Riccardo,

Here in the U.S., I'm sure that leather seating surfaces were standard on 964's. This is what's installed in my car. Per the window sticker: "PARTIAL LEATHER FRONT - BLACK N/C."

I'm guessing the supple leather option is a "complete" leather interior--seatbacks, dash, etc.--an extra cost option.

I imagine it's possible cloth seats could have been ordered, as Jay suggests--perhaps as a no-cost option?

I do remember something about the RS Americas coming without leather, to help lower the cost, but don't remember for certain.

Hope this helps.

[ 06-15-2001: Message edited by: Randall Granaas ]

Andrew Wright

My view is that £16K for a LHD leaky engine is a lot of money ... if you are serious get it checked out by one of the specialists (not nec. an OPC) before handing over your well-earned wedge!!
See the titannic board (www.titanic.co.uk/964) for a list of companies that 964 owners trust & at minimum give one of them a call

Jay H

I believe the Supple leather option was an option that used a higher grade leather on the seats. I remember someone explaining this difference on the old 993/996 board a few weeks ago. I believe my brochure (US Spec cars) listed the cloth seats as a no cost option.

My car has the Supple Leather option. The dash and rear deck are not covered in leather with this option but everything else is in leather (rear seats, arm rests, door panels, rear side panels, some trim panels). Randall is correct on the partial leather as standard. I remember my '86 Carrera had partial leather as standard and that consisted of only leather on the front of the front seats. Everything else was in vinyl. Leather is nice when it is new, but I'll take the vinyl and cloth for the long run...

Riccardo

Andrew - I would've thought that £16K can be talked down to £15K, which is reasonable in my opinion. Although I have found another one for £13K (with 100K miles and 5 owners though!) its black outside with red leather.

Randall & Jay - Thanks for your help. I did put my nose to the seat (there I was sniffing at a seat in this guys driveway) and it did smell like leather in fact. I was just confused because there is no "leather" option code. I am also confused because the dashboard looks like it has stitching (which would indicate a leather dash) but I would be really suprised if it is leather (no option code for it either). Do your dashes have this stitching?

Jay - "Leather is nice when it is new, but I'll take the vinyl and cloth for the long run... " Funny, I thought that leather aged better.

Thanks again for all the help.

Riccardo

Randall G.

Hi Riccardo,

No stitching on my dash ... at least not that I can see.

Jay H

Riccardo:

There is no stitching on my dash. It's all in vinyl.

Regarding my comments: "Leather is nice when it is new, but I'll take the vinyl and cloth for the long run... "

It was kind of an off the cuff statement. Probably just should have kept my mouth shut... I've just seen too many curled up and dried up leather dashboards and trim pieces over the years in older 911's and 928's to count. (I'm sure there are just as many cracked vinyl dashboards and trim). It seems cloth holds up better to misuse over the years. Only my observations and $.02.

Randall G.

I think leather is great for seats--I wouldn't have it any other way. But, like Jay, I've seen several 911's that had disfigured leather dashes. Perhaps leather doesn't work well in some applications, or doesn't tolerate any neglect when used for these applications?

Dave H.

my car has two or three options not listed on the build sticker. just curious if this happens with 911's as well?