3.6 to 3.8 conversion
09-05-2001, 08:40 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
3.6 to 3.8 conversion
Wondering if anyone has done a conversion to 3.8 pistons and cylinders. Automotion has a conversion kit for $3400 (with current 20%) discount. "no machining necessary."
Just a wild thought.
Just a wild thought.
09-06-2001, 04:47 AM
#3
Addict
Lead Rennlist
Technical Advisor
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Lead Rennlist
Technical Advisor
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Dear Larry,
Porsche did it first. It was called the 3.8RS. Very special model, ROW only. If you did up the specs on this version you will see what can and has to be done.
The 3.8RS was built on a Turbo body, turbo front wheel suspension set up but a Carrera 2 rear end. Special 6 point adjustable wing and a few other goodies,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
Porsche did it first. It was called the 3.8RS. Very special model, ROW only. If you did up the specs on this version you will see what can and has to be done.
The 3.8RS was built on a Turbo body, turbo front wheel suspension set up but a Carrera 2 rear end. Special 6 point adjustable wing and a few other goodies,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
09-06-2001, 04:38 PM
#4
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Larry,
I haven't done it yet.... but I have lusted after it for quite some time! Check out the Windward Performance website www.windward-perf.com, also Powerhaus and Andial have some tantilizing info regarding this conversion. I am pretty sure you need to revise the Motronic box (at a minimum), and the good P and C sets are made by Mahle. The more you do while you are at it (exhaust, cams, lightweight rods, Cup/Euro RS flywheel and clutch, etc...), the more power you get! I think powerhaus advertised a "street" version that was emmissions legal with great driveability, and churned out 300-325 hp. This probably won't happen to my car for a while, but once it tips 100Kmi and starts feeling a bit slower... look out! Have fun researching, and by all means post an update if you do convert... I would love to hear what you learn, and how much happier your right foot gets!
Hasta, Mark.
I haven't done it yet.... but I have lusted after it for quite some time! Check out the Windward Performance website www.windward-perf.com, also Powerhaus and Andial have some tantilizing info regarding this conversion. I am pretty sure you need to revise the Motronic box (at a minimum), and the good P and C sets are made by Mahle. The more you do while you are at it (exhaust, cams, lightweight rods, Cup/Euro RS flywheel and clutch, etc...), the more power you get! I think powerhaus advertised a "street" version that was emmissions legal with great driveability, and churned out 300-325 hp. This probably won't happen to my car for a while, but once it tips 100Kmi and starts feeling a bit slower... look out! Have fun researching, and by all means post an update if you do convert... I would love to hear what you learn, and how much happier your right foot gets!
Hasta, Mark.
09-06-2001, 06:54 PM
#6
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Dana Point, CA
Posts: 2,537
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Thom Fitzpatrick:
<STRONG>I wonder what kind of power increase you'd get if you just did the 3.8 p/c's and DME programming. I already have a lightweight flywheel & B&B exhaust.</STRONG>
<STRONG>I wonder what kind of power increase you'd get if you just did the 3.8 p/c's and DME programming. I already have a lightweight flywheel & B&B exhaust.</STRONG>
I seem to recall Bruce A. writing that you shouldn't expect any more than a linear increase in hp when increasing displacement--assuming no other changes are made. For example, 3.8/3.6 = 1.056. So .... 247 x 1.056 = 260.7hp. Or, about 13 more hp--max.
Bruce's "thumb-rule" kinda' makes sense when you look at the change from the 3.2L to 3.6L engine. 3.6/3.2 = 1.125. 217 x 1.125 = 244hp. But, we all know Porsche did more than bump up displacement when moving from the 3.2L Carrera engine to the 964 engine. So, the increase in horsepower due to the increase in displacement was less than linear.
Just my non-expert opinion, of course!
09-06-2001, 07:24 PM
#7
Instructor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thom,
Good point. I recall reading Anderson's comments about displacement and HP. I should expect something like 15 hp increase before changing exhaust, chip etc.
Removing 105# of excess weight would provide a similar benefit at a much lower cost.
Let's see, two new recaro SPGs, delete AC, delete heater blower, delete soundproofing...are we there yet?
Or I could do both?
Larry
Good point. I recall reading Anderson's comments about displacement and HP. I should expect something like 15 hp increase before changing exhaust, chip etc.
Removing 105# of excess weight would provide a similar benefit at a much lower cost.
Let's see, two new recaro SPGs, delete AC, delete heater blower, delete soundproofing...are we there yet?
Or I could do both?
Larry
Trending Topics
09-06-2001, 09:19 PM
#8
Technical Specialist
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
A/C from a 911SC is in the 50-60 lbs range. Heater blower out, maybe another 5-7 lbs (substitute the RSR? connector from the top of the fan cover to the left bottom heat exchanger conduit) - almost up to 70 lbs! Take two heavy electric seats out, maybe 15 lbs each, net? Wahoo - you've got about 100 lbs. Soundproofing is heavy stuff - I've heard estimates (possibly wishful thinking after laboring to remove it) of 20-30 lbs. How about installing a shortened euro knee bolster, then you can change the electric windows for the manual variety. Dump the power steering pump/rack for a manual steering rack.
You know, as you go down the path to the dark side, you're getting very close to the Carrera RS or even US cup models - they're good cues for what can be done. Very good discussion in Panorama May 1993 or reprinted in Up-Fixin' Volume 10, p.187, "Lightweight Carrera Confusion" by Bob Gagnon. He compares in detail the RSA to Carrera RS to US Cup Carrera. And many of the Carrera RS parts are still in the Porsche parts bins. Some are pricey ($3000 for an aluminum front hood) and some are very competitive (RS coil springs $300).
You know, as you go down the path to the dark side, you're getting very close to the Carrera RS or even US cup models - they're good cues for what can be done. Very good discussion in Panorama May 1993 or reprinted in Up-Fixin' Volume 10, p.187, "Lightweight Carrera Confusion" by Bob Gagnon. He compares in detail the RSA to Carrera RS to US Cup Carrera. And many of the Carrera RS parts are still in the Porsche parts bins. Some are pricey ($3000 for an aluminum front hood) and some are very competitive (RS coil springs $300).
09-07-2001, 01:38 PM
#9
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Carmichael, CA
Posts: 491
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I guess my only options for future upgrades would be a 3.8 and/or removing sound material: I've already tossed out the back seats, washer bottle, headlight squirter pump, a/c, heater blower, and have the lighter B&B exhaust, plus I have the lighter manual sport seats.
Can you tell me more about the RSR heater connector?
Can you tell me more about the RSR heater connector?
Originally posted by Bill Gregory:
<STRONG>A/C from a 911SC is in the 50-60 lbs range. Heater blower out, maybe another 5-7 lbs (substitute the RSR? connector from the top of the fan cover to the left bottom heat exchanger conduit) - almost up to 70 lbs! Take two heavy electric seats out, maybe 15 lbs each, net? Wahoo - you've got about 100 lbs. Soundproofing is heavy stuff - I've heard estimates (possibly wishful thinking after laboring to remove it) of 20-30 lbs. How about installing a shortened euro knee bolster, then you can change the electric windows for the manual variety. Dump the power steering pump/rack for a manual steering rack.
You know, as you go down the path to the dark side, you're getting very close to the Carrera RS or even US cup models - they're good cues for what can be done. Very good discussion in Panorama May 1993 or reprinted in Up-Fixin' Volume 10, p.187, "Lightweight Carrera Confusion" by Bob Gagnon. He compares in detail the RSA to Carrera RS to US Cup Carrera. And many of the Carrera RS parts are still in the Porsche parts bins. Some are pricey ($3000 for an aluminum front hood) and some are very competitive (RS coil springs $300).</STRONG>
<STRONG>A/C from a 911SC is in the 50-60 lbs range. Heater blower out, maybe another 5-7 lbs (substitute the RSR? connector from the top of the fan cover to the left bottom heat exchanger conduit) - almost up to 70 lbs! Take two heavy electric seats out, maybe 15 lbs each, net? Wahoo - you've got about 100 lbs. Soundproofing is heavy stuff - I've heard estimates (possibly wishful thinking after laboring to remove it) of 20-30 lbs. How about installing a shortened euro knee bolster, then you can change the electric windows for the manual variety. Dump the power steering pump/rack for a manual steering rack.
You know, as you go down the path to the dark side, you're getting very close to the Carrera RS or even US cup models - they're good cues for what can be done. Very good discussion in Panorama May 1993 or reprinted in Up-Fixin' Volume 10, p.187, "Lightweight Carrera Confusion" by Bob Gagnon. He compares in detail the RSA to Carrera RS to US Cup Carrera. And many of the Carrera RS parts are still in the Porsche parts bins. Some are pricey ($3000 for an aluminum front hood) and some are very competitive (RS coil springs $300).</STRONG>
09-07-2001, 05:58 PM
#10
Thom, the heater air guide tube is just a thermoplastic tube which connects the outlet on top of the fan housing onn the 3.6 to the heat duct hole in the left sheetmetal. I have the part # somewhere I'll see if I can dig it up, but it was exorbitant. There are 2 pics on pg 105 of Andersons book 2nd ed. Save the money and fabricate something
09-07-2001, 10:44 PM
#12
Technical Specialist
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Here's a picture of the pipe that displaces the air blower assembly - it's from a Carrera RS 3.8:
Thanks Bill Verburg for the pointer to the picture, saved me looking for it.
Thanks Bill Verburg for the pointer to the picture, saved me looking for it.
09-08-2001, 09:13 AM
#13
FVD has a complete line of parts including 3.8 pistons, camsm maf,etc.
http://www.fvd.de/fvd_en.htm
Shatz is the N.A. distributor
http://www.schatzmotorsport.com/feature.htm
http://www.fvd.de/fvd_en.htm
Shatz is the N.A. distributor
http://www.schatzmotorsport.com/feature.htm
