apw964

I've recently purchased some new rotors (discs) and pads to replace all four cornors. I was planning on doing this myself, but thought I would ask my local dealer how long the job would take. They informed me that it would cost me 4 - 5 hours of labour - Any one got any comments on this ? It seems very high to me ? My car is a 1990 C4.

Also believe that I may need a new Dist Belt - they informed me that the job would take 4-5 hours - that seems to contradict hat I've read here - any thoughts ?

Thanks all - Andy

Drew_K

Steve at Rennsport will change your distributor belt for $150 but you have to mail it to him. I had mine replaced by my dealer for $300. Yikes, for 4-5 hours labor you could just buy a rebuilt distributor and put it in yourself.

Drew
92 C2

Bill Wagner

It $eem$ to me that your dealer$hip ha$ a fixation on the number$ 4-5 hour$. Odd, if I pre$$ the $hift button on my keyboard and pre$$ the number "4", the character "$" $hows up.

Are the mechanic$ by chance working on a commi$ion??

I would get some other estimates from someone else.

Good Luck,

Bill Wagner

Adrian

I think an hour per wheel would be a fair time to remove the wheel, change the rotors and pads, allowing time for bolts that do not want to move etc. 4 hours total would be a fair time. Remember a whole lot of problems can pop during a pad change and make sure they install all the correct damping parts. This DOES take time to get right. If corrosion is found under the brake pads this also needs to be fixed. You cannot just pull out Porsche pads and replace them. There is a procedure involved to try and avoid pad squealing.
Here is part of this TSB
Brake Vibration Damper - New Application Information
Group4
Number
9310
Model
All
Part Identifier
4745
August 5, 1993
Subject:
Brake Vibration Damper Application
ATTENTION:
Service Manager / Service Technician
This bulletin replaces Technical Bulletin Group 4, Number 9204, Book I, pages 95-98.
Models Affected:
968 from Model Year '92 (N)
944 S2, 944 Turbo from Model Year '87 (H)
911 Carrera 2 and 911 Carrera 4
from Model Year '89 (K)
911 Turbo from Model Year '91 (M)
928 S4, 928 GT from Model Year '88 (J)
928 GTS
Concern:
Application of vibration dampers and damping plates.
Vehicle Information:
A new version damping plate with steel clip (formerly plastic clip) is installed on 911 Carrera 2/4 rear axle from production date: April 2, 1991.
VIN:
96_MS 41 1418 Coupe
96_MS 44 0719 Targa
96_MS 46 2026 Cabriolet
Use only new version damping plates when replacing damping plates on 911 C2/4 all Model Years
Refer to application chart for part numbers.
Carrera 2 Only
Rear brake calipers with shorter pistons were installed during production from VIN:
96_LS 45 1 922 up to 96_LS 45 2002 Coupe
96_LS46 0623 up to 96_LS 46 0662 Targa
96_LS47 1544 up to 96_LS 47 1780 Cabriolet

For the distributor belt it will will depend on experience. Without procedures and experience I would not have them do it.
1 1/2 to 2 hours would be a fair time for the belt change. Mess it up and this can easily turn into a 5 hour job.
For the complete work you are looking at I would say 5-6 hours maximum. If everything comes apart as it should, 5 hours.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

Jay H

I recently had a brake service performed by my dealer on my '90 C2.

All 4 sets of pads were replaced along with the dampers Adrian mentions above. I was charged 3.0 hrs for labor (@ $70 per hour) plus $224.66 for pads, vibration dampers, and brake damper plates. My dealer is very honest in their billing and the mechanic is exceptional. So, if they charged me three hours, it took three hours. My brakes feel great without any squeal. Total cost was $434.66.

I hope this gives you another reference as to what it may cost.

Jay
90 964

J-McDonald

The brakes on my 91 C2 have squealed since I purchased it in February of this year. Soon after purchase, I had the rear discs and pads replaced. The dealer responded to my complaint about the brakes continuing to squeal (after the rears were replaced) with the usual line about it being inherent in semi-metallic pads.

You seem to be suggesting that there are brake dampeners that will eliminate the squeal. Do you have a part number for these dampeners?

Jay H

J-McDonald:

Here are the part numbers and descriptions off of my invoice for the dampers my mechanic used on my brake repair.

964-351-096-02 Vibration Damper
964-351-096-01 Brake Damper Plate
965-351-096-00 Brake Damper Plate

My brakes did squeal quite a bit for the first few times I used the brakes right after getting the car back from service, but they have been silent ever since.

Hope this helps,
Jay
90 964

J-McDonald

Thanks very much!

Randall G.

Hello,

My rear pads were just replaced last December:

rear pads = $63.30
sensor = $14.66
labor = $69.00

My front pads were replaced and the rotors machined 6.16.98 (by a different shop, receipt hand written and somewhat illegible):

pads = $63.30
sensors = $24.00
"vibrators" = $15.20x2
labor = 2 hrs.

My broken distributor belt was replaced 2.14.97 (74569 miles):

belt = $28.00
rotor = $29.00
labor = 3.0 hrs.

Bill Wagner

Gentlemen:

Sorry for the sarcastic $$$ post, but it's been my experience with dealerships that if they say 4-5 hours, it means 5 hours. I can see the brakes taking time (but not 5 hours), but as far as the distributor goes, a dealership will just swap the current distributor with a rebuild one. There's NO WAY that's a 5 hour job for someone who knows what he's doing.

Adrian

Dear Bill,
Depends what is ordered by the customer. If the customer orders a belt change and not an exchange distributor set then it is going to take time.
Most people do not take their Porsches to "official dealerships anyway" based on the great response for maintenance data I have had in my book research.
It is the customers responsibility to take their 964 to a place who can do this work efficiently.
How long the job takes depends on,
What the customer order actually is.
What parts are on hand and what has to be ordered in.
Porsche doucmentation, manuals and TSBs
Experience and profesionalism
Willingness to do the job correctly
I know that many facilities fail in this but the 964 is a 911 and it not an easy auto to work on sometimes.
Shop around first. Ask lots of questions. The top three for me are,
How many of these have you done
Do you have the Porsche Maint Manuals and TSBs
Do you have the parts in house and what are you going to use.
If they fail anyone of these three move on. Especially if you own a C4 because the next question is, do you have a Bosch Hammer. No Hammer, move on when talking brakes on a C4.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

Bill Wagner

Adrian:

You need to live in this country before you make those types of comments.

I took my car recently (I e-mailed you on this) to a shop that I think does relatively poor work. It's owned by an experienced mechanic with a good reputation, but he (unfortunately) turns a fair amount of his work over to inexperienced (for example, 18-20 year olds) people. When you take it there for the first time he does a good job, after that the 18-20 year olds (on commission) take over. You ASSUME you will get the same "professional" job you did the first time, and instead the "teens" try to sell you parts you don't need, work you don't need, and what they actually do is often done incorrectly (if at all!).

Needless to say, I don't do business with that shop anymore. The shop in question is a 5 minute walking distance from my office, but I've opted for another shop located in Sterling, VA that has a good reputation. They're also about 20 miles from where I work and about 10 miles from where I live. They've already confirmed my suspicions about the other place and have completed their work for about 1/2 the price.

The "bad" shop has a good reputation if you look at the local PCA web site, but I posted some comments to the PCA web site and received a fair number of private e-mails telling me about the poor quality work that shop has done.

Live and learn....the hard way!

Bill Wagner

Adrian

Dear Bill,
It does not matter in which country you live. It is up to each individual to approach this subject in their own way. I deal with US based companies every day. We visit them. We audit them and then we do business or not. Many cases not and this is worldwide. I do this wherever I am. If I lived in the USA I would audit these people first. I "assume nothing" unless forced to. I ask questions and I walk around the facility and check it out. I also never take any notice of magazine recommendations.
Your personal recommendation based on experience is worth 1000 times more to me,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

Randall G.

Very interesting observation, Bill. We have a similar shop here in Orange County. The shop is owned by one the most respected mechanics in the county, but once past him, the rest of the staff are young (teenage or near-teenage) guys that really look like they should be catching waves (not that a surfer can't be a good mechanic ) instead of working on your high-end sportscar. I've been at the shop before, watching the owner scramble back and forth like a chicken with its head cut-off, trying to make sure his apprentices are doing the job right. I'm afraid (sure, actually) he can't be everywhere at once.

Jay H

Same thing here in my neck of the woods...

A very good mechanic owns his own independant shop. He services very high end foreign vehicles. You talk with him on the phone about your repairs, but then he turns the car over to 'the kids' to do the repairs. My brother even got his 911 back (the one and only time he took it there) running on 5 cylinders. The owner of this shop did get the car back (after some heated discussion on the phone) and did correct the problems himself, but it shouldn't have happened in the first place.

Talking with the owner (who is highly regarded in the local PCA chapter) gives you a sense of security in that your car will be repaired correctly. But, then it gets turned over to inexperienced mechanics. It's hard to find a good shop and it's probably hard to get good help...