Dan in Pasadena

I found what appears to be a great car on Saturday, what's wrong with it?

'90 964 Sunroof Coupe with 120,000 miles, asking price is $22,900
Flawless original Guards Red over Tan leather, 9+ of 10 - not a mark on it, beautiful and original paint and interior. Expensive stereo with amplifier installed properly in trunk. Brey Krause strut tower brace, tires are excellent nothing AT ALL I can see wrong with this car. Body seams are even and straight, NO evidnce of any body work or paint ever. Minor oil leakage below.... enough so I can tell it hasn't just been steam cleaned to show.

Now here's my problem: It was at one of these little independant,
non-performance-car-selling used car lots! I drove by and admired it and thought it belonged to the owner of the lot. Owner's manual has stamps for dealer service through 33,000 miles.

Why would a car like this end up at one of those kinds of lots? It sure wasn't a trade in. Cars at these lots come from auctions, specialty lots usually snap up Porsches, especially good ones, before these little non-performance lots. I LOVE the look of this car and if I pursue it I'd have a PPI done of course but even then....it is making me uneasy. Opinions? Price?

springer3

What is the title history? This car sounds like it met with misfortune some time before arriving at the lot. Perhaps the owner died. Perhaps bankruptcy or divorce forced a quick sale. Having zero history for 80,000 miles is worrisome, but if everything checks out, the car was maintained and could be a screaming deal, especially if you can beat the asking price.

DarrylH

I don't think the place that's selling it matters much. The reason used cars end up where they do is completely unpredictable, IMO. Do the people at the lot have a "story" about it?

But is the car as good as it looks? It'd be nice to know what's already been done to it, but not the end of the world if a PPI gives it a thumbs-up. Market values in Canada are completely skewed, so no help there, I'm afraid.

botoo

I would ask the guy running the lot. It may be a consignment car or a friend of his. He may give you some history and if everything checks out, it could be a great deal.

Dan in Pasadena

What do you guys think it is really worth if it turns out not to have a troubling story behind it?

I'm no expert but I have been watching the market and I think a more typical price would be mid to upper 20's. A used car lot (I think) would be asking $29,999 or even more!

I am calling the lot owner this morning and I will post back what I find out. Thanks for your help.

pete000

Price seems high. Those lots are known to really drop the price a lot to make you think you are getting a great deal. I would guess they picked it up at an auction where it might have been repo'd I would guess they paid 16 grand for it. Most lots want to make 4 grand on a car either by selling it or taking a trade. So at an offer of 20 grand he would be making his 4k. I would offer 17500.00 if it checked out ok, the milage is up there though. If he wants it to go he might go for it, but it might be a high profile vehicle on his lot to draw attention and he might not be in much of a hurry to let it go. Keep in mind the car might have had quite a few owners, do a car fax.

Kahdmus

It deosnt seem that high to me. I see plenty of 964's in the Bay Area going for $20k or less, especially with this sort of mileage. If the PPI checks out then I wouldnt be concerned.

botoo

My 2 cents. If it checks out as you say, $22,900 isn't too high. Because of the oil leak and mileage is 120,000 personally I wouldn't think you should pay any more. Also, Pete price of $17,500 is too low if it checks out. Check for the dist. vent installation. Important not so much of the cost of it, but because if it isn't installed by now, it may be a signal of other neglect.

Dan in Pasadena

Okay, here's the deal. I just got off the phone with the used car lot manager. They ran a carfax on the car and it comes back a two owner car, originally purchased in Huntington Beach, CA. The car fax is available to me. For those not familiar with Southern California, Huntington is an expensive place to live (though not THE most expensive local beach town) and only about 40 miles from where the car is now. In other words, it all fits.

They have a thick file of receipts, they read off many to me over the phone and there is a consistent history through the years. There is even a compression test in November 03 at 107,000 miles showing 205-195-190-195-195-195 and one in late '97 showing 210-200-205-215-215-215. There was an assortment of minor/middling fixes. Replaced clutch hose and system bleed one time, another time the chain cover gaskets were replaced. AC recharge, CV boots replaced at one point. A window regulator adjustment another time. This manager commented that "Oh my, these cars are very expenisve to own aren't they?" Of course I said "Yes, which is exactly why I am asking so many questions about it".

They have no problem with me taking the car for a PPI as long as a salesman goes along - totally appropriate - and they gave me the VIN which is WPOAB2968LS451221 - someone tell me that "LS" in there stands for "Limited Slip" - too much to hope for? They even read off the name of the shop that most of the receipts are from. I will call them shortly. Opinions? Advice? All appreciated. Thanks guys, Dan

Eric Kessel

LS is not Limited Slip unfortunately. Have the PPI done, and see what turns up. The 90's don't have the updated cylinder/head gasket update that the late 91 on had, so the 90's are not holding their values so well. With that mileage, $22.9k seems a little high, but if it looks as nice as you say, it isn't too out of line......... In the paper work, check for a clutch replacement, any oil leak work (in 14 years, some of the lines will just leak.....), what type of oil, and how often it was changes (at least when was the last oil change......), have the valves been adjusted regularly (every 10 - 15k miles), was the AC changed over to a newer freon replacement? (also, who did the work? Places you've heard of? Or the corner gas station? It can give you a better feel for how the car was taken care of)

-Eric
90 C2 (103k miles.........)
NER/PCA

racergreg

Dan, what was the name of the shop? I live in O.C. and am familiar with many of the shops in the area.

My $.02, I think $20K is more like it for a car with this mileage.

botoo

LS in the VIN number is:
L= 1990 model year
S= Stuttgart production plant

DarrylH

This sounds like my car, but nicer. I've just replaced the (original) clutch, which might've had another 5k in it (pressure plate dead), and the engine mounts, at 125k miles. Also converted to R134, just to do the "moral" thing. Those were the highest ticket items. YMMV. Budget a chunk for some miscellaneous unexpected items that don't show on a PPI (blower fans, thermostat, stuff that works OK now but is just getting OLD), get a good PPI, and it sounds as if it could be a good'un. My 2 cents.

Dan in Pasadena

Thanks guys. I got some of the same in of from the 911 board. The service place was mostly Andial in Santa Ana. I think I remember hearing that this is a major shop, true? Good rep or bad?

As I already posted, there are a lot of receipts, I will have to get over there and look through them in chronological order and see if I can resurrect how thorough the service was. See if there are any gaping holes in service intervals. I am trying to see if the "cylinder head to head leakage" issue that Pete Zimmerman is cautioning me about was ever addressed, and also if (pardon the incorrect terminology) the dual distributor belt venting thing-uh-ma-jig was installed at some point.

racergreg

Andial has the highest reputation! They do serious race prep and other high-end work. If the car was truly maintained here on a regular basis, it has been in good hands.