Greg, Yes, it was serviced at Andial and I have the number. I will call (see the 911 board for advice from Pete Zimmerman) and request some specifics.

At this point I am somewhat concerned that the price is not truly anything exceptional and in combination with the 120,000 miles I guess I would prefer a lower mileage car...mostly because the cylinder head leakage fix; if not already done, will soon need doing - thereby adding several thousand to the price tag of an already not-exceptional price.

Am I understanding the 964 board's opinion that $22,900 is at best an appropriate, not low price?

 

Don't get all wrapped up in the cylinder head leakage gremlin. There are PLENTY of early 964s without the extensive (and expensive) fix, and other than a bit of weeping, they are fairly dry (mine's living proof!).
Here's my 2 cents:
Step 1. Drive the car: if it drives well, no strange noises, good power, then...
Step 2. PPI: A definite must. If those leakdown numbers you've got are legit, it sounds like the engine is doing well, but a thorough going over will let you know what needs to be done, if anything.
Step 3. If it's passed the last two steps, I'd say you're in good shape. It's got a lot of miles on the clock, but I've heard of 964s with well over 150k without a rebuild (not many, mind you, but it happens ). I'd say that $22,900 is in the ballpark, but there's no reason you couldn't bring that down a bit. I'd say depending on the records you could make a good case for some upcoming work needing be done, e.g. replacing the clutch, replacing brake rotors, pads, tires, top end rebuild... I'd shoot for closer to $20k even. If you can pull that off, I'd say you got a good deal. Good luck

Brian

 

If Andial has done most of the work its obvious the previous owner knew who to take it to. Sounds like a good car, But IMHO being a 90 without the head seals and 120k on the clock should bring that car below the 20 grand mark. When I was looking for mine I had a friend who is a broker tell me he pays around 16 grand wholesale for C2's with some milage on them. I paid 23 for my 91 with only 39K miles, single PV owner, and I think I paid a bit too much.

It always boils down to if you want it and you can pay for it, buy it and don't look back. These are great cars I drive mine every day and it makes me smile every time. Good Luck!

 

A few weeks ago I watched a 90 coupe with 63k miles, 1 owner car go through the auction and sell for 12,900. I knew this car because 6 months prior we sold it for 18900. If it had been a manual trans I would have bought it for personal use, but then again I'm holding out for a turbo

 

Don't worry too much about the miles. If cylinder head leaks were a problem, they would have surfaced a LONG time ago...also I wouldn't try to look for the "cheapest" 964 out there. A lot are dogs...even with low miles. No matter how you look at it you can pay $17,000 now and another $5000 a month later, or pay a fair price for the peace of mind.

 

Siberian,
Your final words hit the nail on the head. After sleeping on it, I have decide to let this car go. The 120,000 miles does not give me "peace of mind" and I agree that if I am going to look for 964's then I will look for ones without the head leakage issue, i.e. 92-94's. Not looking for the lowest price (though I wouldn't object to a nice low price)

Thanks everyone. Looks like I am back to waiting and watching. I have no problem with that. My time will come.

 

Good Luck with your quest. The 964 is a true Porsche bargan. I like the fact that they did not make that many of them makes them desirable. Remember Porsche was in hard times when the 964 was new and they were very expensive for the times (My window sticker shows $64 grand!)

The car seems to be much more popullar in England and Europe than here in the USA. With the more modern suspension and the 3.6 out back I switched over from a mint 87 Carrera. I think the 964 is still a bit of the old and a bit of the new mixed in IMHO.

 

Dan: Lots of good advice on this thread and it seems like you have made up your mind. Keep in mind that I have a 33,000 mile 1990 C2 in excellent condition (full records, no stories) and I'd be really lucky to get $24,000-$25,000 for it if I was to sell it now. $23k was too much...

Jay
90 964

 

Jay (and everyone) I agree there was lots of good opinions expressed. Kudos to all the 911 guys that have helped me through about three near misses so far.

I really do love Rennlist, it's like having a bunch of friends you've never met!

I am not truly in a rush...I only make myself think "hurry, hurry" 'cause I think with emotions about cars - it's my (our?) weakness.

Your '90 C2 with 33K miles sounds great. When I finally get there, I hope it's for a car in that type of condition. I will bide my time and the right one with the right pedigree, history, mileage, price and visceral appeal will come along. I'm sure of it. I'll be lurking and looking...thanks again everyone. Regards, Dan

 

Dan:

Good luck in your search. Searching is half the fun anyway!

When I was searching for a 964, everyone (mechanics, knowledgeable sales people) told me to stay clear of the '90 and '91 models (and 964's in general) since everyone thought they were time bombs waiting to go off. My car seems to be pretty solid and both prior owners had zero problems. It sat for 5 months in a major Chicago Porsche dealer's inventory before I bought it. Lucky me I guess...

Other than the estimated $3000-4000 depreciation hit I have taken over 4 years, it's been a solid car that absolutely runs like a top. I'm amazed that a 15 year old car can run so well. Yes, it's a pampered car that goes to car shows and concours events and gets her wheel wells and suspension cleaned as much as some people wash their car, but I'm not afraid to thrash the living hell out of it once in awhile on some of our great deserted back roads around here. It only runs better after a good run.

Will my Freudenberg DMF fail? Yep, I bet it will. But, I won't worry about it until it does. I've got the slush fund available for that repair and bought the car knowing this will probably happen. Will the motor leak? Maybe. But, the car is so nice otherwise, I'll probably just fix it or, depending on the severity (and my trusted mechanic's advice), just drive it and keep adding oil... A friend in my local club has a '90 Targa that has the cylinder to head leak. His mechanic keeps a close eye on it, but he's just driving it, not worrying about it and enjoying the car even with the leak. He'll fix it if it gets too bad.

Good 911's are few and far between, so don't let the model year always dictate what you buy. You may just find a nice '89, '90 or '91... It would be a shame to pass by a nice early car (if the price is justified) just because it's of those years. I can't tell you the number of compliments my car gets from my mechanics, shop service advisors and passer's by (when the car is at a show). All from a "lowly, ugly duckling, worst of the worst 911's ever built" 1990 964. My very trusted, long time mechanic loves the car (and he advised me to avoid 964's in general).

I agree that a major problem ($$) can be the cylinder to head leak. But, if you have to worry about spending $2500 for a new flywheel, then you (not you Dan personally, this is directed to anyone) probably should not be buying a very complex, 16-11 year old 911 in the first place. Even a LUK equipped car can have clutch issues that can get expensive. Then you're not anywhere ahead by only buying a late 964.

Just reading all the recent posts on the 993 board about OBDII problems with those '96 and newer cars makes me glad I've got a 964...! At least the major problems with 964's won't keep my registration from being renewed!

Again, just my $.02 and not much more...

Jay
90 964

 

Dan: Following up on Jay's comments, if you don't mind me asking, what are you looking to spend on your Porsche?
What is the highest you would pay?
What do you prefer to pay?
Also, must it be stock or would a nicely modified car be acceptable?
Must it have low miles and if so, how low?
Buy local or would you consider a long distance deal?
Is it to be a daily driver or second car?
Do you work on the car yourself or have it serviced?
Must it be a 964 or would you consider other 911 model years?

I think the answers will help focus your search and no doubt, you will find lots of help here. Most of us look for cars even though we are not buying.
At least knowing a range, there are people here that can help you find one that meets your needs

 

This is a great post about how rugged 964's are...

260,000 mile 964

and this from the same car:

964 build quality

 

Just for a point of reference. I paid $24000 for my 91 Targa w/ 79k miles on the clock. It had all the records since new including the Dealer Delivery Inspection and Window Sticker.

Keep in mind that these cars are between 10 and 15 years old and there is always something to do on them. It's kind of like buying an old house, always something to do or think you need/want to do. The car is more fun than the 944S2 I traded in on it, but I do miss the cabriolet part ot the 944.

 

As another point of reference, I paid USD $23500 for a 1990 C2 cab with 92000 miles. The car was located in NJ. Car was perfect inside, some minor paint chips up front, no dents or dings in the panels. Needed new stereo. Had leaking oil return tubes and a needed a valve adjustment. Repaired the oil cooler thermostat. New battery. Miscellaneous other little things.........Other than the stereo, I think I have pumped another $6000 into the car (this includes the 90000 mile service, repairing the oil return tubes, etc), but it now runs great and I'm happy.

You will always find someplace new to put your money in one of these cars--whether it be wheels, suspension, cosmetic changes, performance enhancements. The car is 15 years old and things will go wrong. ust be patient. All you need is time and money and anything can be fixed.

 

Having totaled my 91 C2 (and still fighting for the settlement with insurance) I have been shopping for a replacement for about 6 weeks. What I can tell you is that really nicely maintained 90 to 92 964s are very hard to find. And conversely it is easy to find high priced FSBO's that are rats when you get up close. I had a shot at a 90 C4 with 40,000 miles on it and it sold an hour before I got there for $27,000. Got to see the smiling new owner drive it away. The really big issue is how the car was maintained. Forget the worries about model year and mileage. Yes you need a good PPI, but if the car is well cared for I'll buy it TODAY. Any body got one for sale in the northwest??? And oh yes, it has to be a dark Metallic to please the Misses.