Where to test drive a 964 ?
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Some materials of construction are of a lower grade such as the leather on the seats. The seat foam also seems to deform faster. Plastic replaces metal in a couple of spots on the interior/engine although some of this was also introduced on the later 964’s as well. The paint is softer and much easier to scratch. I’ve had a 993 in my garage for a few months now so it’s easy to compare them but I’ll admit some of the changes are not just cost savings but also weight savings which is important.
Pete
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The meeting with the Toyota consultants definitely happened before the 993 production began. I haven’t owned a 993 but I’ve spent some time in a couple of them and I don’t think that I see much of a quality drop between it and the 964.
However, the shortcuts were in full effect for the 996 and Boxster.
However, the shortcuts were in full effect for the 996 and Boxster.
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Not sure about that. I love the 964 because it was the next refined step from the G-Body cars. Power steering, ABS, a little more torque a little more refined suspension.
I don't like the looks of the 993 so the 964 was the ultimate Air Cooled car for me. The 993 is a fantastic car but I like the buggy headlights.
I don't like the looks of the 993 so the 964 was the ultimate Air Cooled car for me. The 993 is a fantastic car but I like the buggy headlights.
A friend described shifting the earlier cars as "requesting a gear" and that is a perfect description from my experience, where the 964 shifts almost like a modern car.
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I agree with this as well. In addition, the gearbox on the 964 is a huge improvement over the earlier cars and really the deciding factor IMO vs a g body.
A friend described shifting the earlier cars as "requesting a gear" and that is a perfect description from my experience, where the 964 shifts almost like a modern car.
A friend described shifting the earlier cars as "requesting a gear" and that is a perfect description from my experience, where the 964 shifts almost like a modern car.
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Hello, currently looking for an aircooled 911, drove the 80s cars and didn’t like them, drove the 993 and really liked it , I want to try a 964 too, I’m in Irvine, CA , does anyone have a recommendation on how to test drive a 964? Just want to be 100% sure which air cooled the want the 993 or the 964
Tarek always has a 993 and 964 in rotation. There are enough people around that once you know what you are looking for. (C2, C4, Turbo, RS, etc) and your budget, we can usually find one local...
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I drove a friend’s 993 today for about 45 minutes. Looking around and scrutinizing the interior, I have to reiterate my thoughts above that I do not see a quality reduction in it, but I’ve admittedly heard there is from many people. The example above of the seat foam and leather durability may not have been apparent on this low mile car I drove today. I do love the 993 wipers and I appreciate the more readily available torque from the variable timing. But still I have two 964 Targas instead and I’m good with that. My wife would like a 993 Tiptronic so hopefully one day there will be one in the garage anyway.
Burning Brakes
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I drove a friend’s 993 today for about 45 minutes. Looking around and scrutinizing the interior, I have to reiterate my thoughts above that I do not see a quality reduction in it, but I’ve admittedly heard there is from many people. The example above of the seat foam and leather durability may not have been apparent on this low mile car I drove today. I do love the 993 wipers and I appreciate the more readily available torque from the variable timing. But still I have two 964 Targas instead and I’m good with that. My wife would like a 993 Tiptronic so hopefully one day there will be one in the garage anyway.
— while the interior had now changed with cheaper door panels and substandard rear seats. The 993 was marketed under the premise that it was $5,000 cheaper than the 964, which was possible because Porsche was now using new manufacturing techniques that saved money, including changes in the materials utilized such as vinyl instead of leather, composite materials being substituted for traditional metal components, etc. — and the savings added up.
Additionally, the complete wiring harness was an all-new modular-style harness, unlike what Porsche had ever utilized. Every Porsche before this had every wiring sub-harness for any option the car could have, compared to the 993 modular harnesses that only had the necessary wiring for the options on that particular car. Besides cost, a benefit of this approach was a substantial reduction in vehicle weight. The downside: Porsche, as did many other automobile manufacturers, started using a soy-based wiring jacket in its wiring harnesses. Rodents loved it and over the years chewed up the jackets. Another inherent problem with soy-based wiring jackets is that they can erode away, which can cause short circuits and has proven to be the root of many unusual running and/or instrumentation issues. Another money-saving item, one that was indicative of the cost-cutting mindset, was that Porsche discontinued the engine oil magnetic drain plug.
Additionally, the complete wiring harness was an all-new modular-style harness, unlike what Porsche had ever utilized. Every Porsche before this had every wiring sub-harness for any option the car could have, compared to the 993 modular harnesses that only had the necessary wiring for the options on that particular car. Besides cost, a benefit of this approach was a substantial reduction in vehicle weight. The downside: Porsche, as did many other automobile manufacturers, started using a soy-based wiring jacket in its wiring harnesses. Rodents loved it and over the years chewed up the jackets. Another inherent problem with soy-based wiring jackets is that they can erode away, which can cause short circuits and has proven to be the root of many unusual running and/or instrumentation issues. Another money-saving item, one that was indicative of the cost-cutting mindset, was that Porsche discontinued the engine oil magnetic drain plug.
The wiring harness isn’t a great example as I know nearly all manufacturers made the same changes to reduce plastic waste and suffered a similar fate. The plastic air intake is a good example of cost cutting and weight savings, this was implemented mid production on the 964 but the early 964’s had aluminum. Another cost cutting measure was a less elaborate tool kit.
I’ll add that none of this really has a significant impact on the cars reliability. The 993 leather doesn’t age as well and I’d argue that some of the plastic trim on the 993 isn’t as robust as the 964 but again nothing crazy.
My intent was to point out some of the nuances and differences between the two.
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It’s good to be hashing this out because i’ve searched for the list “of the 993 cheapening” before and haven’t been able to find much. I am a 964 fan first and foremost, but I will say that I recently had my door panels off to install speakers and they aren’t quality prize winners either. It’s sort of frustrating that they are made of chip board. I have never scrutinized the quality of the 993 rear seats, but I do think they probably look a little better.
All in all it seems to me that the 993 wasn’t much of a drop in quality but as I’ve said the Boxster and 996 are where it really shows up.
Porsche wasn’t alone. Look what happened to Mercedes post merger with Chrysler. It was around the same time.
All in all it seems to me that the 993 wasn’t much of a drop in quality but as I’ve said the Boxster and 996 are where it really shows up.
Porsche wasn’t alone. Look what happened to Mercedes post merger with Chrysler. It was around the same time.