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Door Locks, Cylinder Barrell, and other fun stuff...

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Old 05-06-2004, 11:57 AM
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BGLeduc
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Default Door Locks, Cylinder Barrell, and other fun stuff...

To start with, this post pertains to a US spec '90 C2. I need some assistance with the proper procedure to correct some issues with my door locks.

My right side (passenger side for US folks) door lock rotates 360 degrees when the key is rotated. The locks do work, but the cylinder barrel seems to have lost its "stops". There was a post some time ago that said there was set screw that comes loose, and if its is re-tightened, the problem will be solved. I have not yet undertaken a repair.

Well, the drivers (left side) door started doing it as well, but apparently, the securing screw has come completely out, because the lock cylinder has come free of the door handle! It can be re-inserted, and amazingly, the lock still seems to work, but for obvious reasons, this is not good.

I disassembled the drivers (left side) door panel, but it does not seem that I can get access to the back side of the lock cylinder. There is a plastic cover that appears to be an anti-theft device that prevents the actual door latch mechanism from being tampered with. This is secured by 1 small screw in the door jam, and is easily moved out of the way, but beyond that, I do not see how the actually lock cylinder cab be access from inside the door.

Anyone have any insight as to how to do that, or any other suggestions as to how to get at the lock cylinder to fix the problem?

It does appear that the door handle itself is attached by two studs on the handle, secured by small nuts (unsure the size). I did not have the proper wrenches or sockets to try to remove the handle. But I was not certain if that was the proper approach.

Tips, suggestions, or even sympathy are most welcome! As a side note, I see that in the Performance Products catalog, a new door handle, with lock cylinder and key is about $370. I am hoping that this is a problem that can be fixed without having to spend that much money!

BGL
Old 05-06-2004, 01:40 PM
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Jeff Curtis
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BGL - continue on, past the plastic guards and remove the door handle. It's tough to remember, because with the electric door locks and all , the 964 door is a bit trickier than your average 911 door!

There is also a plastic guard that runs up the inside of the door jam, to protect your linkage and the latch mechanism from direct contamination, and I imagine some theft control.

First of all, make sure that you have your door panel all the way off, this is not a job for the weak of heart and who wants their door panel dangling, just barely out of the way so you can run into and kick it around, damaging it as well - let's assume you've done so.

When you remove the header panel, it's easier to use a pair of needle-nosed pliers to get the inductor connector apart, the one that makes your locks blink red...it always seems to be a BI*** to me.

With your window in the full up position (of course) start removing the covers and then the linkage to the door handle...most linkage connections are quick-snap plastic devices that will usually release with a well calculated (and gentle) jerk parallel to the ground. I'm thinking you'll just have to remove the linkage directly associated with your door handle.

From there, you have (from memory) two nylock nuts that require a 10mm socket and the handle should pop out of the door. WATCH IT...as you will have a thick white wire that controls your doorlocks when using the key still attached.

From memory (again) I believe the connector to this wire is just inside the door jam, lower left for Driver's door, lower right for Passenger door...it's a pain to disconnect here as the wire is held by several clips and some gobbly-gook black stuff that sticks it to the inner door shell like tar.

Instead, (there goes the memory again) there is an allen machine head screw that holds that wire assembly to your door handle, carefully disassemble this and leave the wire hanging so it's easily accessible for reassembly.

Whew!

Personally, I don't recall ever having to changout doorlock cylinders, so I'm not much use from here - but it sounds like you're pretty adventurous, and tool-worthy, so I'm quite certain you can figure it out from there.

Hopefully this helps...feel free to advise me later on how inaccurate my memory is!
Old 05-06-2004, 02:02 PM
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BGLeduc
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Thanks for that, Jeff.

But let me be clear...I am very, VERY dangerous around tools....ask my wife, she will tell you! I am genetically incapable of undertaking a project, no matter how simple without breaking at least one other item in the process.

Just to prove the point, when I was beginning the door panel removal, I did not know how to remove the round, manual door lock ****. So, of course, I started to try to pry it off with a screw driver....which I succeeded in doing....only what actually happened is that the damn threaded boss on the actual mechanism snapped. Dohhhhh! I have an e-mail in to Oklahoma Foreign to see if they can sell me a replacement.

This morning, I have learned the secret...a simply screw under a pry-off plastic cap.

Anyway, I did pretty much have the door panel off and the plastic thingy pulled out of the way when I threw in the towel. I think the nuts on the door handle are smaller than 10mm...I did have a 10 and they were, I think, too big. At lunch, I will run down to Sears and get a 4mm to 12mm set...that ought to cover it.

Then the only thing will be to pray that missing screw that has allowed my lock cylinder to come out is sitting there on the back side of the door handle. If not, my wrench has advised that he has a box full of door handle and lock hardware going back to the later 70's...surely he will have something that will fit.

Thanks again for the very useful suggestions.

BGL
Old 05-06-2004, 02:12 PM
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Jeff Curtis
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Ah, the 'ol hidden screw trick on the lock ****...know all about it, was "familiarized" with it about 8 years ago when I purchased my SC.

How 'bout the fact that the round guard behind it UNSCREWS by hand??

That one threw me for a loop as the SC/Carrera ones just come off once you unscrew the ****.

The pains of upgrading.

I think you're correct on the nuts being smaller than a 10mm socket, believe it's 8mm now...there's goes my memory again! Do yourself a favor when working inside your doors, have a 1/4" ratchet/socket set handy for all the work in there, it's smaller and you're less susceptible to breaking things with the usual BIG 3/8" sets.
Old 05-08-2004, 06:56 PM
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BGLeduc
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Well, so far, so good.

I have not re-engaged with the drivers door, as I await the manual lock mechanism that I broke in the opening chapter. Oklahoma Foreign had 'em ($20) and its on the way.

I have, however, acquired the appropriate 1/4" rachet,sockets,extensions, and universal joint. So, I opted to do the passenger door and fix the annoying 360 degree rotation that that lock cylinder was afflicted with.

As you mentioned, without 1/4 sockets, there is no way one would be able to get the rearward door handle not off, so thanks for that tip!

An they are 8mm nuts.

I found that I needed about 9" of rachet extension (a 6" + a 3"...we do what we must!), plus the universal joint to get the most rearward nut off, but with that tool, it was easy. Just take your time and be very slow and deliberate removing the nut or it will end up in the deepest recesses of the door panel.

And I do have a tip for those that find the lock cylinder either rotating freely or pulling free of the door handle.

The mechanism that it attached to the back of the cylinder will rotate freely if the screw in question gets loose. And it was not intuitively obvious how that mechanism should be oriented once re-attached to the lock cylinder. Plus and there is also a spring that may need to be re-seated.

The answer, boys and girls, is "with the little arm pointing upward". Sorry I have no digital camera to demonstrate the correct placement, but once you see it, I think you will know what I mean.

I probably spent as much time looking at this and trying different orientations as I spent disassembling and re-assembling the door.

So, sometime next week, the drivers door will get its lock fixed, and a new manual locking pivot.

BGL
Old 05-09-2004, 04:16 AM
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John Boggiano
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While you're in there, BGL, would you take a look for me and see if there's a problem with the fact that I have a screw missing from my door edge - see top of picture below. What should be attached to it?

I'm pretty sure I've asked this before - apologies to anyone who answered previously. It's the memory, you know...

I won't be around to thank you as I'm now disappearing for a week, so TIA.
Old 05-09-2004, 11:10 AM
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The missing screw secures the top edge of a plastic shield that covers the overall lock/latch mechanism. It appears to be an anti-theft device.

The shield fits quite snugly into position, so I don't know that the missing screw will cause any dire consequences, but I suppose Porsche put the screw there for a reason, right?

This is tough to grasp without a photo, but I am not sure I could have gotten a camera in there.

When you begin the deep-dive into the procedure to remove the door handle, you will see the plastic shield that seems to cover most of what you need to get to! That one screw on the door jam attaches the top of the shield.

Once that screw is removed, you can reach in and pull the shield forward (grab it from he top). You do need to flex it a bit to get it out of the way, but it can be moved fully forward and clear of the work area.

When you finish the repair, you just slide it back into position (again, some amount of bending/twisting is required).

One more tidbit bit. To get the handle out requires slipping the lock wire from a cable clip that keeps the wire free of the mechanism. Simple, right? Well, when I grab a wrench NOTHING is simple.

While contorting my hands to unlatch the cable clip and pull the wire free, the clip snapped. Fortunately, there was enough clip left attached to the door to allow me to secure the cable with a cable tie.

BGL
Old 05-09-2004, 03:25 PM
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joey bagadonuts
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Originally posted by BGLeduc
I am very, VERY dangerous around tools....ask my wife, she will tell you! I am genetically incapable of undertaking a project, no matter how simple without breaking at least one other item in the process.

That's hilarious. Some jobs, I don't even attempt knowing full well that my mechanic will invariably end up fixing my "fix." For example, I picked up four new rotors last weekend and considered tackling this easy DIY project. After reading the recent "Rear Brake" thread, I think I'll pass.
Congrats on solving the door lock puzzle!
Old 05-15-2004, 11:16 AM
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Mission accomplished. Driver's door lock no longer falls out in my hand, and the manual lock **** mechanism, broken in the first episode has been replaced.

A couple notes to hopefully save someone some aggravation and/or confusion.

1. For John Boggiano...the screw you have missing is actually one of two that secure the plastic shroud I previously mentioned. There is a second screw down below the latch, just out of view in your photo. Both must be removed to fully remove the shroud, but only the top one need be removed to allow the shroud to be moved out of the way to allow access to the lock mechanism.

2. If you find that your door lock rotates 360 degrees, DO NOT WAIT to fix it. On my drivers door, the lock cylinder screw backed out completely, and the lever arm pieces fell down into the door. A bit of a challenge to find them, and the screw itself appears to have dropped out through one of the holes in the base of the door, lost forever.

3. If you do lose said screw, I find that a 6-32, 3/4" machine screw is a pretty good fit!

4. As for the manual door lock ****/mechanism which I broke...seems that Porsche doesn't want you to be able to turn it if the door is open. After putting it all back together, I attempted to turn the **** with the door open, and no luck. I was certain I had jammed up the works some how, and again took the door panel apart. WTF? Dohhhhhh! Nothing wrong, just a good dose of operator error. Oh well, we can not get enough practice removing and re-installing one's door panels, right?

BGL
(aka The Anti-Mechanic)
Old 10-19-2011, 10:00 PM
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3DE
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Default door lock removal

I just finished fixing this problem and this thread was very helpful. I wanted to include some pics of the job to help others out. Fixing this also solved a second problem... The door had been locking and unlocking properly for over two years despite the tumbler spinning, but recently it stopped locking, instead the door lokcs would pop back up. Fixing the spinning tumbler also fixed this problem, so I did not have to mess with any door micro switches.

In the first pic you will see the screw that is on the back of the tumbler that everyone is talking about. It needs to be tightened to keep the tumbler from spinning 360 degrees, but also make sure it is fully seated in the square indentation at the back of the tumbler... you have to take the screw all the way out to see what im talking about. Also this is the correct orientation of the mechanism after it is properly tightened. Note that the spring stops (circled) will have to be reseated in this area.

In the next two pics you can see the bolts (arrowed) that must be removed to allow the outer door handle to come out, as well as the plastic cover before and after removal.
Attached Images    

Last edited by 3DE; 10-19-2011 at 10:01 PM. Reason: sp
Old 10-20-2011, 07:24 PM
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altarchsa
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Originally Posted by 3DE
I just finished fixing this problem and ..........................
THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

I've been waiting for someone to take and post these pictures for a long time!

The screw (top left red arrow) came off my Driver's side lock a while back and I reattached the arm and pin with the screw (all were still in the bottom of the door), but I wasn't able to figure out why my Driver's door lock won't activate the auto lock/unlock function. I've been going to the passenger side for way too long. Would like to figure out what the real problem is. Maybe the electrical part on the cylinder?

BTW, the lock cylinder is a pretty common design: multiple tumblers that fit into a slot in the cylinder housing when the key is removed. The tumblers come to center when the key is inserted, allowing the cylinder to rotate. You can R&R the tumblers by removing them, cleaning everything, stretching the tiny, tiny springs on each side out a little to renew the pressure on the tumbler, and properly lubricating everyting before going back together. These are tiny pieces, so no heavy lubricants here, maybe just graphite or a very light oil. Those littel springs are just big enough to push against a freely moving tumbler. Oh, and save yourself some time by CAREFULLY recording each tumbler location and orientation. It's a real PAIN if you get them mixed up.
Old 06-07-2016, 12:32 PM
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So glad this thread exists, and also very happy that it was updated (years later) with pictures.

My lock cylinder recently started to rotate inside the door handle, until just the other day, when the lock cylinder completely came out with the key! I can reinsert the lock cylinder, but now I'm also having problems with the door latch, so things are now disconnected behind the door handle.



It looks like the screw on the back of the cylinder backed out. Hope I can find it?!

And... another pelican thanks... my passenger lock cylinder started 'spinning' pulling handle out was not too hard (i've got pulling door panels down to a science now!), screw on back of cylinder was loose. Put a little blue loctite on it, tighten it up, lube everything while in there, and now all works great.
post above from this thread: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...open-door.html

I've never taken a door panel off. Seems intense, but thank goodness for Mark Shaw's thread:
Door panel removal guide
Old 06-07-2016, 01:04 PM
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This just happened to my drivers side door. Two days after stripping the door to replace window seals! Guess ill have to do it again. Just when i thought there was nothing else to fix on the car! Oh and the bonnet pull broke the day before. Its a good job i love my 964.
Old 06-08-2016, 10:05 AM
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I'm so, so grateful for 3DE's photos above! That made all the difference as I pulled off the door panel and started pulling back the weatherproofing. I can't believe I'm "inside" these iconic doors.

It's always about that ONE bolt. In this case, reaching the bolt inside the door next to the lock cylinder was almost impossible. It's way back there, with not a lot of room to get hands and tools in at the same time. I spent the next 20 minutes trying to figure out a way to get that last bolt off (an Allen wrench pressed into the end of a socket wrench attachment). Also, I might never had reached this point without the pics and text describing the plastic lock cover!

Now the fun really begins. I pull the handle off and try to figure out what to do with that white wire (I disconnected it at the plug located at the bottom middle of the door, not at the door handle - seemed safer...). It's really interesting how that wire snakes through the door. After disconnecting it from inside the door I was able to pull the door handle out and see what parts where still connected to the lock cylinder.

Searching around the door bottom I found the screw that came off of the end of the lock cylinder and the metal lever arms that attach to it. Then I found a small spring?? I remembered 3DE's picture above. Huge thanks! I reset everything per the picture and tested it a couple times. Open, close, open close.

Can I reuse the plastic door weatherproof cover again? I've only peeled off enough to get access to the door handle, and adhesive is still sticks well when I reseal the door. It's amazing how much lighter and tinier the door feels and sounds with the door panel off. I might use this opportunity to take the speakers out...









Last edited by 911Jetta; 06-08-2016 at 10:21 AM.
Old 06-08-2016, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by porsche mania
...Just when i thought there was nothing else to fix on the car! Oh and the bonnet pull broke the day before. Its a good job i love my 964.
I hadn't done anything to my car in a long time except drive, wash and do oil changes. So it was time for something to come up.

Once you start with one thing, you start finding a couple other things to do while you're in there...


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