fore!

OK - done it. Going to try the B&B system including headers.

If there's one part of cars I hate wrenching it's been exhaust systems. Has anyone removed / fitted an exhaust system themselves? Any tips - do's, don'ts or other sagely words of wisdom?

M

pzull

DO -------> B&B headers
DON'T ---> B&B Muffler

Cupcar#12

i agree with dennis...

On the headers the 911 exhaust side bolts are a little short you will need to install them without the washers they supply or better yet get thinner ones - if you use locktite use the very high heat stuff.

Be really careful removing the stock system - if you bend or break a stud they almost never go back in right - could be very costly in other works and they are a pain to get loose typically.

it's not a hard install if you have a lift (or acess to one) if you are using ramps/jacks it kinda sucks. expect 4 hours of work or so, taking your time.

also the heat exchangers are pretty small but do put out some heat or if you went with the non-exchanges nada....

my 2 cents....

fore!

Rob,

What's wrong with the B&B mufflers? I heard they tend to split, is there anything else? What you you run - B&B headers, the standard primary and G pipe? (I have G pipe installed and love the sound)

I've heard you need all kinds of wrenches to fit the headers. What I don't have is one of those 3/8" drive air wrenches. I'm thinking that could be a good addition for a job like this.

I think this is on of those horrible jobs that just takes time. I'll get a crawl board with head rest, protective glasses and soak the nuts for a day prior.

Jeff Curtis

Be careful what you soak your nuts with.

This is a PESKY job, but with a little perserverence, you can overcome the exhaust gremlins.

B&B used to have MAJOR issues with their mufflers splitting...I know - SEVEN times I had to send mine back!!

Latest info. is that they have that issue beat, although I cannot vouch for that myself.

The studs on a 964 are pretty short, Rob's advice is solid, no washers if that's what it takes. As for various wrenches to do the job, goto Sears and buy their 13mm Distributor wrench, have a universal joint available for your ratchet/13mm socket and a regular 13mm combo wrench handy.

I was lucky and our local P-Car facility owner had an extra 13mm wrench for the SSI heat exchangers. This one is bent differently than the Sears distributor wrench...so I now have a good 4 options for getting to the exhaust stud nuts.

Cupcar#12

i only had them on for about 1K miles before taking the whole thing off. I was really no impressed with the quality of the parts. Welds looked like my sister did them, Etc....

i had the whole thing headers to tip on. ditched it in favor of the stock headers and a whiz bang Ti muffler. The stock system is pretty good if you need heat, but it is really heavy. both the stock and the B&B are not equal length although the B&B is more equal than the stock one and has better curves internally. If i was going to do it again i would go with a true equal length system (ditching the heat) and the Whiz bang muffler - Deleting the cat.

My car actaully passed emmisions in Wa. with the B&B system - No Cat.
not really sure what that say's about Wa. emisions testing though...

Overall i think they have the cracking issue beat - but i have seen a few that have sucummed to heat failure in the past year - what happens is that the type of SS they use and the weld material don't always gell - for lack of a better term - so they expand at different rates and crack.
the outer bolts are a bear to get to - you can replace the studs but that is opening a whole new can of worms. i ended up custom bending a wrench to get to them (starting with a sears bend one) - they include one from what i remember in the Kit.

Personally i like the racers group headers - they seem pretty well made - and you can have them done to specs.

fore!

OK -- I get the picture. Crapoleum welding.

Let me ask this - when the B&B muffler is out can I connect up my ol' orginal primary in it's place.

probably not - but thought I'd ask..

Thanks

Cupcar#12

if it is a complete B&B systems - headers and muffler - no..they do make a muffler only setup.

my opions are my own - not saying they are bad just i was not impressed.

if you already bought it - install it. I used my perf products 25% discount coupon when i bought mine and if i did not get another i probbly would have keep it till it failed.

GHL also makes a pretty good system - i have a real nice Boxster muffler in my garage - good/decent welds

pzull

fore, one other thing about B&B mufflers, it really does sound like you've put a boat IN your car cabin. The resonance is not something anyone would like if you drive any longer than 10 minutes.

I have measured both B&B headers and racers group headers. B&B headers have "equal" length with error of +-20% for all primaries (ie. none are equal to each other). The racers group one has 4 out of 6 primaries that are +-2% difference whereas the remaining 2 (both from the left bank) are about 10% off from the rest.

I bought the racers group mild steel version with ceramic heat coating inside and outside and I think they perform better than stainless given the thermal characteristics....and the price. I asked for custom 29 inch primaries and they obliged with 30 inch ones - I guess I should have specified measured from which starting point - not that an inch makes any real difference.....I think they got annoyed when I was **** enough to enquire as to why there was the discrepency :P