Thinking about selling to get a Lotus Elise...
05-04-2004, 12:11 PM
#32
Pro
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Christer
I am just going to put this one down to temporary insanity, stress or a mixture of the two. You should be locked up for even thinking about this.
I am just going to put this one down to temporary insanity, stress or a mixture of the two. You should be locked up for even thinking about this.
True!
I can aslo say that I am merely limited by economical privilege. I assure you my good man that if the means were there, the 964 would reside permanently in my collection...
05-04-2004, 12:21 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
Hmmm - I've driven the Elise quite a bit, and 'solid' isn't word that springs to mind...something which, after my off-road incident, is more at the forefront of my mind than it used to be! https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...hreadid=130246
I wonder how an Elise would have fared?
I wonder how an Elise would have fared?
05-04-2004, 12:50 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Kevin - that's interesting! However, it would still have had to pass the European regulations when it was homologated...
But as we said in wales, there is a difference between a car that can pass a series of specific tests, and a car which is inherrently strong.
But as we said in wales, there is a difference between a car that can pass a series of specific tests, and a car which is inherrently strong.
05-04-2004, 01:04 PM
#36
Drifting
Yes Rob, I agree, I wonder what crash ratings the federalised Elise has? I know they did miles of reliability testing, but haven't found any test results yet.
For anyone interested, NCAp stuff is here:- http://www.euroncap.com/index.php
kevin
For anyone interested, NCAp stuff is here:- http://www.euroncap.com/index.php
kevin
05-04-2004, 09:14 PM
#37
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Hi guys,
I used to own a S1 Elise for about a year (swapped it for one of the first boxsters, another story) and I have to say that it offers a very different driving experience from almost anything else. But when I test drove my 964 I thought "Hey! This is just like a grown-up Elise!". The level of feedback that you have as the driver of an Elise is unparallelled in a road car (bar the inevitable caterfields), but the next tier is occupied by cars like the 964...
As far as handling goes, I wouldn't rate the Elise as marvellous as others (Mr. Chalk and Cheese for instance). The Elise has _challenging_ handling characteristics at speed, including both power understeer, snap oversteer, roll oversteer and power oversteer - sometimes all in the same corner! I've got friends here in the UK with Elises that have been badly caught out this way, sometimes to great financial cost (the Elise can be a v.expensive toy to dent, check out the Pistonheads.com Elise forums for details).
An Elise _will_ brake quicker than a stock 964, I've proved this on track (this is simply due to mass) but in terms of the handling stakes by the end of a day at North Weald the fastest entry speed either of the (S2) two Elises could make into the 90 (degree) left was 96mph, and I was managing 105mph in the 964... Andy said the fastest anyone had done was 110, and my shocks were shockingly spongy! (being replaced right now with Yellow HDs)
Yes, the Elise is lots of fun on twisty backroads. Yes, it is shocking bad around the woefully maintained tarmac in central London and on the Motorways (particularly the concrete sections of the M25 which were teeth-grittingly uncomfortable). Yes, it has great 'fun' appeal and generates a lot of positive feedback from onlookers. No, it has a real washing machine of an engine (caveat, haven't driven the new Toyota-powered unit).
I _really_ can't see the Elise as being a replacement for a 964, both are challenging drivers cars, both have very different characters. The 964 is certainly _way_ easier to live with on a day-to-day basis, but is also _way_ more expensive to routinely maintain too - the cost of Elise expendables, tyres, pads, disks etc. is sooooooo much cheaper.
If you do a lot of track work (and I do mean a lot) then an Elise makes a very sensible buying proposition, it'll be much cheaper to run than a 964. As a daily driver a 964 is much more comfortable/practical. But this really masks the basic point - they're different cars, so very different. I still have fond memories of the Elise, but would I buy another one? No. Am I happy with the 964? Yes.
Fox
---
Aside: though I might be tempted by a s1 Elsie with a VTEC transplant
I used to own a S1 Elise for about a year (swapped it for one of the first boxsters, another story) and I have to say that it offers a very different driving experience from almost anything else. But when I test drove my 964 I thought "Hey! This is just like a grown-up Elise!". The level of feedback that you have as the driver of an Elise is unparallelled in a road car (bar the inevitable caterfields), but the next tier is occupied by cars like the 964...
As far as handling goes, I wouldn't rate the Elise as marvellous as others (Mr. Chalk and Cheese for instance). The Elise has _challenging_ handling characteristics at speed, including both power understeer, snap oversteer, roll oversteer and power oversteer - sometimes all in the same corner! I've got friends here in the UK with Elises that have been badly caught out this way, sometimes to great financial cost (the Elise can be a v.expensive toy to dent, check out the Pistonheads.com Elise forums for details).
An Elise _will_ brake quicker than a stock 964, I've proved this on track (this is simply due to mass) but in terms of the handling stakes by the end of a day at North Weald the fastest entry speed either of the (S2) two Elises could make into the 90 (degree) left was 96mph, and I was managing 105mph in the 964... Andy said the fastest anyone had done was 110, and my shocks were shockingly spongy! (being replaced right now with Yellow HDs)
Yes, the Elise is lots of fun on twisty backroads. Yes, it is shocking bad around the woefully maintained tarmac in central London and on the Motorways (particularly the concrete sections of the M25 which were teeth-grittingly uncomfortable). Yes, it has great 'fun' appeal and generates a lot of positive feedback from onlookers. No, it has a real washing machine of an engine (caveat, haven't driven the new Toyota-powered unit).
I _really_ can't see the Elise as being a replacement for a 964, both are challenging drivers cars, both have very different characters. The 964 is certainly _way_ easier to live with on a day-to-day basis, but is also _way_ more expensive to routinely maintain too - the cost of Elise expendables, tyres, pads, disks etc. is sooooooo much cheaper.
If you do a lot of track work (and I do mean a lot) then an Elise makes a very sensible buying proposition, it'll be much cheaper to run than a 964. As a daily driver a 964 is much more comfortable/practical. But this really masks the basic point - they're different cars, so very different. I still have fond memories of the Elise, but would I buy another one? No. Am I happy with the 964? Yes.
Fox
---
Aside: though I might be tempted by a s1 Elsie with a VTEC transplant
Last edited by neonfox; 05-04-2004 at 10:01 PM.
05-05-2004, 02:27 PM
#38
Pro
Thread Starter
Originally posted by neonfox
Hi guys,
I used to own a S1 Elise for about a year (swapped it for one of the first boxsters, another story) and I have to say that it offers a very different driving experience from almost anything else. But when I test drove my 964 I thought "Hey! This is just like a grown-up Elise!". The level of feedback that you have as the driver of an Elise is unparallelled in a road car (bar the inevitable caterfields), but the next tier is occupied by cars like the 964...
As far as handling goes, I wouldn't rate the Elise as marvellous as others (Mr. Chalk and Cheese for instance). The Elise has _challenging_ handling characteristics at speed, including both power understeer, snap oversteer, roll oversteer and power oversteer - sometimes all in the same corner! I've got friends here in the UK with Elises that have been badly caught out this way, sometimes to great financial cost (the Elise can be a v.expensive toy to dent, check out the Pistonheads.com Elise forums for details).
An Elise _will_ brake quicker than a stock 964, I've proved this on track (this is simply due to mass) but in terms of the handling stakes by the end of a day at North Weald the fastest entry speed either of the (S2) two Elises could make into the 90 (degree) left was 96mph, and I was managing 105mph in the 964... Andy said the fastest anyone had done was 110, and my shocks were shockingly spongy! (being replaced right now with Yellow HDs)
Yes, the Elise is lots of fun on twisty backroads. Yes, it is shocking bad around the woefully maintained tarmac in central London and on the Motorways (particularly the concrete sections of the M25 which were teeth-grittingly uncomfortable). Yes, it has great 'fun' appeal and generates a lot of positive feedback from onlookers. No, it has a real washing machine of an engine (caveat, haven't driven the new Toyota-powered unit).
I _really_ can't see the Elise as being a replacement for a 964, both are challenging drivers cars, both have very different characters. The 964 is certainly _way_ easier to live with on a day-to-day basis, but is also _way_ more expensive to routinely maintain too - the cost of Elise expendables, tyres, pads, disks etc. is sooooooo much cheaper.
If you do a lot of track work (and I do mean a lot) then an Elise makes a very sensible buying proposition, it'll be much cheaper to run than a 964. As a daily driver a 964 is much more comfortable/practical. But this really masks the basic point - they're different cars, so very different. I still have fond memories of the Elise, but would I buy another one? No. Am I happy with the 964? Yes.
Fox
---
Aside: though I might be tempted by a s1 Elsie with a VTEC transplant
Hi guys,
I used to own a S1 Elise for about a year (swapped it for one of the first boxsters, another story) and I have to say that it offers a very different driving experience from almost anything else. But when I test drove my 964 I thought "Hey! This is just like a grown-up Elise!". The level of feedback that you have as the driver of an Elise is unparallelled in a road car (bar the inevitable caterfields), but the next tier is occupied by cars like the 964...
As far as handling goes, I wouldn't rate the Elise as marvellous as others (Mr. Chalk and Cheese for instance). The Elise has _challenging_ handling characteristics at speed, including both power understeer, snap oversteer, roll oversteer and power oversteer - sometimes all in the same corner! I've got friends here in the UK with Elises that have been badly caught out this way, sometimes to great financial cost (the Elise can be a v.expensive toy to dent, check out the Pistonheads.com Elise forums for details).
An Elise _will_ brake quicker than a stock 964, I've proved this on track (this is simply due to mass) but in terms of the handling stakes by the end of a day at North Weald the fastest entry speed either of the (S2) two Elises could make into the 90 (degree) left was 96mph, and I was managing 105mph in the 964... Andy said the fastest anyone had done was 110, and my shocks were shockingly spongy! (being replaced right now with Yellow HDs)
Yes, the Elise is lots of fun on twisty backroads. Yes, it is shocking bad around the woefully maintained tarmac in central London and on the Motorways (particularly the concrete sections of the M25 which were teeth-grittingly uncomfortable). Yes, it has great 'fun' appeal and generates a lot of positive feedback from onlookers. No, it has a real washing machine of an engine (caveat, haven't driven the new Toyota-powered unit).
I _really_ can't see the Elise as being a replacement for a 964, both are challenging drivers cars, both have very different characters. The 964 is certainly _way_ easier to live with on a day-to-day basis, but is also _way_ more expensive to routinely maintain too - the cost of Elise expendables, tyres, pads, disks etc. is sooooooo much cheaper.
If you do a lot of track work (and I do mean a lot) then an Elise makes a very sensible buying proposition, it'll be much cheaper to run than a 964. As a daily driver a 964 is much more comfortable/practical. But this really masks the basic point - they're different cars, so very different. I still have fond memories of the Elise, but would I buy another one? No. Am I happy with the 964? Yes.
Fox
---
Aside: though I might be tempted by a s1 Elsie with a VTEC transplant
Looks like I need to buy the Viper then!!
05-08-2004, 10:39 PM
#40
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Man, this is what people in 12 Step programs refer to as high class problems. Seriously, though, it sounds like you've made up your mind. Or does it? He loves his 964, he loves the Elise, he loves his 964, he loves the Elise...
By the numbers, I don't think anything can come closer to handling NIRVANA as the Elise. Crazy cornering speeds rivalled only by a well sorted out Ducati.
But then, there is that whole 300; 400 horsepower defecit??
By the numbers, I don't think anything can come closer to handling NIRVANA as the Elise. Crazy cornering speeds rivalled only by a well sorted out Ducati.
But then, there is that whole 300; 400 horsepower defecit??
05-10-2004, 01:31 PM
#41
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Saw a US spec in person
Having seen a US spec Elise 'in the flesh' as it were, I'd say that an Elise would make a nice compliment to a 911, but not a replacement. The Elise really is tiny, and hard to get in and out of. The gent who brought this car to Laguna Seca was kind enough to let a friend sit in it. Cool guy.
My plan is to wait until the pent up demand for the car has waned, then buy one from someone who has found the car a bit hard to live with.
Consider the Honda S2000. These sold for a huge premium over the $32k sticker for about a year. Now you can find them with less than 20k miles on the clock for about $20k. I suspect that Elise prices will follow a similar pattern.
Be patient and have both!
My two cents...
My plan is to wait until the pent up demand for the car has waned, then buy one from someone who has found the car a bit hard to live with.
Consider the Honda S2000. These sold for a huge premium over the $32k sticker for about a year. Now you can find them with less than 20k miles on the clock for about $20k. I suspect that Elise prices will follow a similar pattern.
Be patient and have both!
My two cents...
Last edited by Derrick B.; 04-05-2009 at 03:34 PM.
05-11-2004, 12:27 AM
#42
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Derrick, is your avatar photoshopped? If not can you provide some info...very, very neat (and unusual) pic! (shpuld have saved it for next years photo competition!)
05-11-2004, 01:23 AM
#43
Three Wheelin'
Derrick,
I love British cars, but I have to ask -- is the "S" in the "LOTUS" script on the rear of that car missing? LOTU just doesn't have the same ring to it...
I love British cars, but I have to ask -- is the "S" in the "LOTUS" script on the rear of that car missing? LOTU just doesn't have the same ring to it...
05-11-2004, 09:16 AM
#44
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Originally posted by Speedraser
Derrick,
I love British cars, but I have to ask -- is the "S" in the "LOTUS" script on the rear of that car missing? LOTU just doesn't have the same ring to it...
Derrick,
I love British cars, but I have to ask -- is the "S" in the "LOTUS" script on the rear of that car missing? LOTU just doesn't have the same ring to it...
I also take issue with Fox about running costs, using the old 'D-word' chestnut. Elises aren't depreciation -proof yet, espec sII, (which I keep thinking about, I admit!) Have S1's stopped dropping yet? Doubt it..
And discs/pads/tires? - surely there's only a few pounds in it..
