When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Singer cars are quite modern in their application of materials, suspension, engine and electronics and their redesigned panels approximate quite closely a wide body stance. My car changes everyday and the journey is evolving with every touch on the car. I myself am looking forward to the final result. Thanks.
I have to disagree with this. It is their reinvisioned stance of the 964 that doesn't work for me. Their fenders are not anything similar to what was used on the early cars or even the ST's. The proportions are off and look all wrong to my eye. I have friends with real RSR's of this era and have seen them next to singers. Nothing can convince me they look right. I am a fan of modifying your car to your likes, I dislike what singer is doings since they are hacking up good cars to make clones of their original design which to me is not what an enthusiast does. It is all about profit and these soon will be less exclusive than a stock C2. If each one varied more than color or materials I would say fine but they all look the same like the kit cars of the 70's and 80's and for that much money you can build one heck of car and have enough for my turbo leftover and maybe a few others. After reading the stats and with all that work it is nowhere as light as I expected and is a compromise if tracked. My track build which didn't even cost me the rounding error on a singer will dust one without issue on track I have no doubt. Won't be as fancy but to me what is inside and underneath that makes one of these better than the other.
The Ohlins re nice but I would spend my money on the MCS 2 way long before I purchased the Ohlins. A much better suspension IMO.
Just picked these up and hopefully will have them in my C2 soon. Amazing quality made in USA. All the good stuff is always hidden.
BTW If you decide to sell any original parts I am always looking. I am planning a WB RSR clone for the street one day to go with my track version.
Anthony, those MCS are very nice. They are a great upgrade. I was talking to Steve W over in Oregon and he always has a lot of praise for these.
I appreciate your opinion on the singer panels. I was responding to a previous statement. I agree that to a Porsche purist, the exact lines of those fenders and even the wheel well curves are not the original lines or any other porsche product. And maybe their view of enthusiast is different than yours or mine, so I am not one to criticize because I am not interested in one. In my original opening statement, I am drawing inspiration from all the rebuilders, restorers, imitators and from my own humble motorsport experience, to build something that I can be happy with everyday.
I can't wait to see your track build! Maybe when I get around to the motor, I might come to you for inspiration...turbos, they make lots of power!
I will let you know about the parts in a couple of months.
The gauge and quality of the steel had to be confirmed with Porsche. Then they had to find a non sunroof car to measure the curve. After stenciling and testing the smoothness of the sheet metal, the cutting and curving was done. I learned what Catherine wheel was.
45 hours of man labour...and boy is it something to watch them mold that metal and then make a hole disappear!
The gauge and quality of the steel had to be confirmed with Porsche. Then they had to find a non sunroof car to measure the curve. After stenciling and testing the smoothness of the sheet metal, the cutting and curving was done.
That is an astounding level of attention to detail. I take back what I said. This will be epic.
That is an astounding level of attention to detail. I take back what I said. This will be epic.
Hoping it will!
I asked them what those rectangular contour lines were (see photos 4 and 5) and they said - exactly that - they are contour lines: the type you see on topographical maps to show slope on the terrain. They lasered the non sunroof cars, made a topographical map of the curve and transferred that to the metal. That is how they were able to shape the finer curvature to make it look like the car roof is all one piece. Now that's EPIC!.
I keep thinking that I shouldn't have started this thread, and then I can advertise my car as a rare OEM non-sunroof wide body coupe.
The only panel that seems to garner high praise is the Fenn Lane one. There are a few people on here that did it, and I believe Anthony and Ilko (agent Orange) did it on a 993. You want the panel to fit almost to the edges of the hole left by the original sunroof. You need minimal gaps. To do this properly you need a very experienced welder and metalworker! Your average shop may not give you the end result you want. Done right, it will be great. I chose to have a new panel fabricated, because the shop I am using are skilled in metal working. The seams need to be welded top and bottom as the roof skin is thin. Also the headliner replacement is a lot of work. This is not an easy job to do well and the cost is significant. Others can chime in on their experience. I read many of their postings before making my decision.
No doubt this will be a top notch build and not for the faint of wallet. I love to see old world craftsmanship like this but adding the modern technology flair is a nice touch. These guys don't mess around.
It is amazing how little strength the roof has with the sunroof hole open like that.
Yes i did use the fenn lane since it was a track build and we welded the entire gap which was a PITA both sides. My friends metal worker is another wonder to watch. We would not use that panel today but it fit the budget and it has not cracked under track conditions.
No doubt this will be a top notch build and not for the faint of wallet. I love to see old world craftsmanship like this but adding the modern technology flair is a nice touch. These guys don't mess around.
It is amazing how little strength the roof has with the sunroof hole open like that.
Yes i did use the fenn lane since it was a track build and we welded the entire gap which was a PITA both sides. My friends metal worker is another wonder to watch. We would not use that panel today but it fit the budget and it has not cracked under track conditions.
curious as to what you would use today for sunrooof delete? I used the Fennlane panel on my 993 with exceptional result. I was planning on using it again in my 964.
With that much labor in the fabrication, did you consider removing the entire roof from cowl to rear decklid and replacing it with a non-sunroof roof skin?
NO it will not. Considering the scope of the project, I decided to go with a custom colour. Its a combination of different vintage Porsche eras with some modernity to the paint ingredients. I personally love blues, so that was a strong influence on the tint. The final colour changes its hue in various lighting which I really think is cool.
The interior will change quite a bit. In fact some of that is underway from the functional side and I will post on that later. The focus presently is on the exterior and suspension. I will redo the door panels for weight savings, but a complete overhaul of the fabric etc will be in stage two.
Last edited by GentlemanRacer; 01-25-2020 at 12:30 PM.
Reason: sedit
With that much labor in the fabrication, did you consider removing the entire roof from cowl to rear decklid and replacing it with a non-sunroof roof skin?
Thats a great question!
Yes I did consider it. It was however going to be dependent on what was found when the car was checked for rust. The fenders, doors, glass, weather stripping, trim etc was removed and the hard to see areas checked. The car was amazingly rust free! So since we would not need to fix and redcoat any of the rust areas, I didn't see the need to take on an extremely labour intensive and costly skin transplant.
I know some people have said that just cutting the roof and reattaching the skin is the same cost as sunroof delete, but it really isn't. The experts at the shop assured me it was 3 times the work. The skin itself is easy enough to transplant and carries no structural integrity as that comes from the frame. But the skin and the frame are sandwiched together by a strip of metal from the frame that forms the rain channel along the side of the roof from front to back. First that has to be cut, then uncrimped, then recrimped once the roof is out, then by hand it ha to be realigned to look OEM. Plus there is significant work at the cowl level to ensure their is no leak at the front windshield base. Long story made short, is that, its extremely expensive and unwarranted, if the car doesn't need to be stripped to correct rust issues. Far easier and cheaper to do the sunroof delete as I did, with OEM result.
There was a video I saw a couple of years ago where someone documented it. You need expert metal workers and craftsmen to do it right. I will look for the vid.
Sometimes things go fast and other times I have to wait. Now that the sunroof delete is done, the rear deckled has been replaced with a fiberglass ducktail. It takes some work to fit it right but the quality is top notch. There will be more work to add some venting at a later date.
Some smaller items such as the retro twilights are also being added
01-24-2020, 11:11 AM
