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This has been asked before, but nothing is current and didn’t see any driving feedback.
I have OEM Cup 1’s on my narrow body.
17x7 +55 front
17x9 +55 rear
I had been using 5mm spacers all around, but want more “flush to fenders” look.
I am getting larger wheel studs, so max I can do out back is 27mm spacers.
Max out front is 11mm spacers.
(With my selected studs of 72 and 56mm respectively)
I’m curious who’s played with spacers on oem Cups, what looked good, and was driving/handling performance negatively impacted?
Bonus if you post pictures with details.
Here is mine with 5mm all around:
I have 5mm on front and I believe 7mm rear on our RSA and its been fine...your current set up looks great!
Thanks, I agree it does look good.
But I am still getting a slight rub on the fronts on the inner well wall.
If I push out the fronts more, I also want to in the back.
You shouldn't be rubbing at all w those wheels and the 5mm spacers if you have 225 worth tires up front. Check to see if you have the 6mm or the 10mm steering stops - you should have the 10mm...the early small ones will allow rub.
As to the stud sizes when you go to the wider spacers, keep in mind the stock studs are 45mm (this is what my memory is- the actual measurements are somewhere in the suspension madness thread, but my head is telling me 45, could be 46) from the bottom of the head to the end of the stud. So if you run a 10mm spacer, you are going to a 55mm stud, 15, 60mm, etc.
I run a 55mm stud front and 60mm rear. (I also have the later front hubs, so in my case, to run over a 5mm spacer i need longer studs up front)
If you later run a smaller spacer, you'll need to get a set of steel open lug nuts to replace the closed oem aluminum nuts.
Feel free to pm me if you need to talk through any of this, been there...
You shouldn't be rubbing at all w those wheels and the 5mm spacers if you have 225 worth tires up front. Check to see if you have the 6mm or the 10mm steering stops - you should have the 10mm...the early small ones will allow rub.
As to the stud sizes when you go to the wider spacers, keep in mind the stock studs are 45mm (this is what my memory is- the actual measurements are somewhere in the suspension madness thread, but my head is telling me 45, could be 46) from the bottom of the head to the end of the stud. So if you run a 10mm spacer, you are going to a 55mm stud, 15, 60mm, etc.
I run a 55mm stud front and 60mm rear. (I also have the later front hubs, so in my case, to run over a 5mm spacer i need longer studs up front)
If you later run a smaller spacer, you'll need to get a set of steel open lug nuts to replace the closed oem aluminum nuts.
Feel free to pm me if you need to talk through any of this, been there...
I'm actually running 205/50 tire up front...
So it shouldn't be even more.
I am not familiar with steering stops on the 964.
Is this part fo the tie road assembly?
I just replaced mine with the Elephant Racing Bump Steer kit.
My loose plan right now is to get MSI studs, and rennline hub centric, 15mm rear and 10mm front spacers.
Definitely getting open ended steel lugs.
I still have elephant spacer shims to play around with the fit from there.
Thanks for the advice, where did you eventually land on spacers?
Travis at MSI is fantastic. He makes all our studs, and I'm about to make another order actually. We do ours with a 6mm bull nose. When you run the open lug nuts, it gives a nice finish the the lug. Glad you found them, cuz there are a lot of terrible aftermarket logs out there, and for me, it's oem or MSI.
One thing to watch out for, however, with the msi lugs and spacers, is, if you have the early version of the front hubs- with the full circle hubcentric ring, the non-threaded, splined part of the lug up near the head, sticks out just a little past the surface of the hub - so some spacers are not chamfered on the back side of the hole, and your spacers won't sit flush to the hub. So check that the spacer sits flush easily, and if it doesn't, chamfer the back side of the hole just a little to make it work.
If you are interested in the bullnose- again, it's in the suspension madness thread. Sorry to keep sending people there, it's a bit of an unruly monster that one. When i look for things in it now i go to google and type my last name and the subject- and i usually get a pic of what I'm looking for in google images, lol...and a direct link to the page in that thread. Way better than using the rennlist search...crazy.
As to the steering Stops. The 10mm stops weren't standard until the end of the 964 years. So if you don't have a 92, and the tsb wasn't done for 17" wheels, then in all likelihood you have the narrow early stops if you are rubbing. They are threaded on the inside of your tie rods facing toward the steering rack. You have to pull the boots off the rack to see them. Take a look at the tsb for the stops. It'll be clear as day once you see that...
Also if your car is early, there is a cut that needs to be done up front in the wheel well where the fender and bumper attach - also in a tsb for running 17 inch wheels.
This has been asked before, but nothing is current and didn’t see any driving feedback.
I have OEM Cup 1’s on my narrow body.
17x7 +55 front
17x9 +55 rear
I had been using 5mm spacers all around, but want more “flush to fenders” look.
I am getting larger wheel studs, so max I can do out back is 27mm spacers.
Max out front is 11mm spacers.
(With my selected studs of 72 and 56mm respectively)
I’m curious who’s played with spacers on oem Cups, what looked good, and was driving/handling performance negatively impacted?
Bonus if you post pictures with details.
Here is mine with 5mm all around:
Great looking car BTW...I think the stance looks perfect as is. Couple off topic questions tho. Did you use this part for the bumperette removal?
Lastly - Did you go with the Elephant bump steer tie rod kit because you were getting bad bump steer from lowering ? If so, did it fix it ? I only ask cause I have the same tire setup as you and after lowering as far as the Bilstien HD's would allow, the front end it suffering from some pretty bad bump steer that I really need to dial out. Thanks in advance.
Bump steer? Or crashing into the bump stops? If you’re at rs height on off-the-shelf struts, then my money is on bump stops. Did you measure compression travel from your static ride height when you installed the struts?
FYI, I space my rear 9” wheels out to an effective 32mm offset and they just tuck inside the arches with about -1.7 camber and RS height. With street camber, I wouldn’t push them out much more than a 37mm offset. Where “more” means a lower offset.
That's good to know nick- we are making a set of Augment Sport Campy wheels that are 9 rear with a 40 offset...i was expecting to be -1.5 camber...so they should be aggressive..but will look good...
Bump steer? Or crashing into the bump stops? If you’re at rs height on off-the-shelf struts, then my money is on bump stops. Did you measure compression travel from your static ride height when you installed the struts?
I have H&R Springs and Bilstein HDs. On an nice smooth surface the ride is great. But when on the freeway for example with lots of joints in the road, the front end bounces around quite a bit and it gets translated into the steering. Thanks for any suggestions.
EDIT - shot you a PM as not take this thread off topic.
When I had cup1 on my car with the stock studs I wouldn't go more than 5mm based on the threads i had left. I ran 5mm.
I have MSI studs / nuts now (no spacers, just aggressive / wide offset wheels). They are the best. Check them out. MSI Racing Products. NASCAR APPROVED! :-)
Travis at MSI is fantastic. He makes all our studs, and I'm about to make another order actually. We do ours with a 6mm bull nose. When you run the open lug nuts, it gives a nice finish the the lug. Glad you found them, cuz there are a lot of terrible aftermarket logs out there, and for me, it's oem or MSI.
One thing to watch out for, however, with the msi lugs and spacers, is, if you have the early version of the front hubs- with the full circle hubcentric ring, the non-threaded, splined part of the lug up near the head, sticks out just a little past the surface of the hub - so some spacers are not chamfered on the back side of the hole, and your spacers won't sit flush to the hub. So check that the spacer sits flush easily, and if it doesn't, chamfer the back side of the hole just a little to make it work.
If you are interested in the bullnose- again, it's in the suspension madness thread. Sorry to keep sending people there, it's a bit of an unruly monster that one. When i look for things in it now i go to google and type my last name and the subject- and i usually get a pic of what I'm looking for in google images, lol...and a direct link to the page in that thread. Way better than using the rennlist search...crazy.
As to the steering Stops. The 10mm stops weren't standard until the end of the 964 years. So if you don't have a 92, and the tsb wasn't done for 17" wheels, then in all likelihood you have the narrow early stops if you are rubbing. They are threaded on the inside of your tie rods facing toward the steering rack. You have to pull the boots off the rack to see them. Take a look at the tsb for the stops. It'll be clear as day once you see that...
Also if your car is early, there is a cut that needs to be done up front in the wheel well where the fender and bumper attach - also in a tsb for running 17 inch wheels.
Lots of good pointers here.
I'm glad I found MSI too, recommended to me by the guy who sold me the Cup 1's actually.
I'll be sure to check the stud spline to make sure the spacer is flush to hub.
I'll also take a look at those TSB's regarding the steering stop and fender cut.
Thanks!
Originally Posted by Lorenzoh
Great looking car BTW...I think the stance looks perfect as is. Couple off topic questions tho. Did you use this part for the bumperette removal?
Lastly - Did you go with the Elephant bump steer tie rod kit because you were getting bad bump steer from lowering ? If so, did it fix it ? I only ask cause I have the same tire setup as you and after lowering as far as the Bilstien HD's would allow, the front end it suffering from some pretty bad bump steer that I really need to dial out. Thanks in advance.
Thanks!
Yep, those "fog lamp covers" are what I used, purchased from Pelican as well.
I did the bump steer kit because it was recommended to have with any lowering of the vehicle.
And I wanted to replace the tie rods anyways.
It doesn't completely eliminate bump steer, but has worked as intended.
Originally Posted by -nick
Bump steer? Or crashing into the bump stops? If you’re at rs height on off-the-shelf struts, then my money is on bump stops. Did you measure compression travel from your static ride height when you installed the struts?
FYI, I space my rear 9” wheels out to an effective 32mm offset and they just tuck inside the arches with about -1.7 camber and RS height. With street camber, I wouldn’t push them out much more than a 37mm offset. Where “more” means a lower offset.
Here’s a pretty good view-
That's a good looking fitment on the rear.
Similar to what I want, still tucked under the fender, but no rubbing because I do not want to modify the fenders.
Originally Posted by Spyerx
When I had cup1 on my car with the stock studs I wouldn't go more than 5mm based on the threads i had left. I ran 5mm.
I have MSI studs / nuts now (no spacers, just aggressive / wide offset wheels). They are the best. Check them out. MSI Racing Products. NASCAR APPROVED! :-)
Does MSI sell non-coated lugs?
I was just going to get the steel open ends from Rennline.
Not sure if they make them or not...
Also don't want the yellow or pink coatings from MSI.
03-11-2019, 05:25 PM
OEM Cup 1 Wheels with Spacers?
