gbutler

I just picked up a late production build C2 coupe from the Netherlands. The COA lists a build date of September of 1993 and an invoice date of 10/16/93, yet it is a P series build per the VIN. When doing further research, it appears as though 964 coupe production stopped when 993 production started in December of 1993, so it appears as though my car is one of the last made, at least within the last 2 or 3 months of production. Does anyone know if any ROW cars (normal coupes, not counting cabs or turbos) were R series cars? I would think not given there were only a couple of months of production left after my car, which is a P series. Also, were all US 1994 model year cars simply late build 1993 cars labeled with the 718 option code? I have already seen several 94 US cars which were R series yet there build date is before my build date. I know they started to use the 718 option code in May of 1993. Were there any true 1994 US cars that were R series without the 718 option code? What is the latest build date of any US spec coupe that anyone is aware of?

cobalt

Yes there were a number of true R series 964's. There were 118 of the 406 Turbos most of them are the limited edition S models. A handful of C2 coupes and I believe most of the the C4 widebody and speedsters along with a number of RSA's. I was not aware of the 718 code being used for any of the ROW cars. In the US a 718 coded car would have an R vin with a P code engine assuming it was sold as a 94. Although the last US 964 delivered was the one off America GS which IIRC was delivered in 1996.

Many of the true R coded vin and engine cars were highly optioned and sent to the Werks/Special wishes department to be finished sometimes taking months after leaving the production line. It could be the case with your car.

911Jetta

I hope your "R"n't afraid to drive it because of the late production?

GoatFarmer

Mine is also 9/93 with an invoice date of 9/14/1993. It shows new vehicle warranty of 3/19/1994 which I believe is the date it was sold right? How do determine if I have a "P" or "R" code car? The engine number in my car contains an R. I do not see option code 718 in the list of options with my car.

gbutler

New vehicle warranty of 3/19/94 is indeed when your car was sold. To determine if you have a P or R code car, simply check the 10th digit in your VIN. I would imagine it is an R since you have no 718 option code. That highlights part of my question / curiosity ----- meaning my car also has a build date of September with an invoice date of 10/16/93, yet it is a P code (ie model year 93) car. I think what happened was since the factory was planning to deliver the first production batch of 993's to ROW dealers, and these were labeled model year 94 (versus US not getting cars until model year 95), then they saw no need to play games (the 718 option code, etc) with VIN's since they knew ROW dealers were going to be able to offer model year 94 cars but they would be 993's. Since there would be no 993's for the US for model year 94, I think they utilized the 718 option code to redesignate original model year 93 cars into model 94 and also any cars built after the traditional model year change out in August would be given an R code like a traditional 94. What is interesting is in the case of my car, it is built after the traditional model year change out in August, yet it is still given a P code -- this despite the fact that it was produced in September of 93 and the switch over to 993 happened in December of that year. What would be interesting to know is the "Original Porsche 911" book shows roughly 500 C2/4's produced for ROW as R code 94 cars. Where these built from September thru December of 93 or where there similar games going on in other markets and they were built even before that with some type of 718 code for there designated market? Or where they building normal C2/4 cars ALONGSIDE 993 production? I am not referring to the special cars such as the various turbo special editions, speedsters, etc as I know these were being built at the same time since many involved special wishes, etc as COBALT has previously mentioned.

gbutler

Incidentally the engine code in my car is a P engine and it is matching numbers per COA. What I am thinking is that Germany (where this car was originally sold) did not receive any R series cars since the new 993 was going to be produced in December, and that any cars produced after the model year changeover where just kept as P code 93 models.

911Jetta

That's what I was wondering and is a little scary and cool at the same time given the complexity of the manufacturing process and all the necessary assembly and labor procedure changes while switching models. Not a lot of room at that factory during that time. Plus we're talking about automotive assembly...

I first visited the Porsche factory while they were making the 964 and remember the engine room, interior shop and the "marriage" part of the assembly line very well. In general I'm a huge factory tour junkie. Have visited everything from clothing to candy bar company plants. Love it. Today I actually toured ITER, an international nuclear fusion research and engineering megaproject, which will be the world's largest magnetic confinement plasma physics experiment. Talk about a complex project. Unbelievable.

BTW, not ragging on you at all. Just curious.

cobalt

I was under the understanding that 964 production line ended early in 1993 for several months while they refit the factory for the new just in time and production methods used on the 993 thanks to Toyota. Many of the workers were on furlough for months IIRC. The info I have says some 255 C2/C4 coupes were made for 1994 ROW market. Not quite as few as the US spec cars . I know different countries do things differently but I would expect your vin to be an R code for 1994 with P code engine if it had code 718. My 94 turbo is 718 coded with R vin and P coded delivered in early 93 and was made only a few months after my 93 C2 and 93 928GTS.

gbutler

Great play on words! Anyway, I realize that I am about to open myself up to all kinds of criticism, not an enthusiast, in it for money, flipper, etc but so be it! I am not one to make excuses or not disclose my true intent, therefore I bought this car to sell here in the states. I am a 30 year PCA member whose first car was a Porsche and I also used to club race with PCA. I have been on Rennlist and Pelican for years, but just not actively posting. I have owned countless Porsches and Ferraris, and I enjoy the hunt and then learning about each of the cars that pass thru my hands. I get them, fix and improve things that are always broken with these cars, drive them a short while, and then move on to another one. I never go without having a car to drive as I always have at least 2 or 3 cars in the garage so that I can always satisfy that sports car itch! I have also bought 2 other C2's in the last month, which will also be for sale shortly. This recent ROW car that I purchased is another step I am taking in terms of learning the import process (should be the same as a car I recently bought from Canada) as I have in my target an ROW 92 Carrera RS! That is one I might have a hard time selling!

911Jetta

It was a lame play on words, too easy. I used it to soften the intent of my question, I just like seeing them being driven. Didn't want to offend as we all have different reason for owning these wonderful cars. My manufacturing comment was just pure curiosity however. Was a crazy time at the factory then.

Totally admire and respect how you look at the process of owning these cars. Especially since you also try to improve them as you own them.

GoatFarmer

To complete the data point from my car, the 10th digit of the VIN is R and the 3rd digit of the engine number is also R. The car also came with 2 "Z" orders.

gbutler

Wow, very unusual how yours has the R code in the VIN and an R engine, yet my car has the same build month with an even later invoice date, and yet mine carries the P code in the VIN and a P engine! The only difference being my car is a ROW car, being initially purchased by a Porsche factory employee in Stuttgart, so not sold thru the normal dealership channels.

GoKart

gbutler

That just means that your car in the traditional sense would have been a 93 based upon the manufacturing date (I suspect it is between May and July of 93), but Porsche was not selling many 964's here in the US at the time and rather than produce new R Code cars when the traditional model year begins after the summer break in August, they simply redesigned some 93 cars and gave them a 718 option code, which simply means they "redesigned the VIN from a P to an R to indicate 94 model year, even though the car was produced before what would normally be considered a typical production month for a 1994.

cobalt

gbutler As I said I wasn't aware of the 718 code being used on ROW cars. Your car being from the Netherlands is what is confusing me. If it is a ROW car i'm assuming the Vin starts WPOZZZ? I figured I would check Adrian's book out although most of his numbers and info regarding this info is skewed. He states that all ROW P coded cars were manufactured from August 92 through July of 93. All R series cars were from August of 93 through December of 93 Except turbo and speedster which stayed in production until some point in 1994. There were US spec 1994 993's imported albeit a few I worked on one and almost purchased it.

I am wondering if this is another case of cars being double counted as many seemed to have been up until recently, if your car is truly 718 coded this would be interesting to figure out. Each time I finalize what I have learned to be true production numbers I keep finding that less were . As I said my turbo is a 94 R coded 718 with P code engine build date of May/93.