looking for a nice stick shift car
11-27-2018, 04:25 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
If you go with an E46 M3 you will want to get a race shop to do the sub-frame reinforcements. An indy may be aware of them, may not. Dealers will be clueless. Parts are like $150. Labor is quite extensive as you need to remove the exhaust, rear sub-frame and fuel tank before you can access the points where the pieces need to be welded in. Bimmerworld has a very good write up/instructions on what needs to be done. Parts can be purchased from Bimmerworld, Turner Motorsports, AKG Motorsports, etc...
Another thing to keep in mind with the E46 M3 is the need to replace the connecting rod bearings. The S54 motor tends to have accelerated wear on these parts partly because of the very high rpm they rev to. Replacement can be done in the car if you support the top of the motor with an engine support, drop the front sub-frame and oil pan and pump to get access. The M54 motor in the 330i does not suffer from this issue.
I know it sounds like a lot of work, but the cars are very good. There is a reason why most of the cars on track (at least in the Northeast) are BMW 3 series.
Like Mr Wolfe, I did the work myself. Good welding skills and equipment are required though.
Another thing to keep in mind with the E46 M3 is the need to replace the connecting rod bearings. The S54 motor tends to have accelerated wear on these parts partly because of the very high rpm they rev to. Replacement can be done in the car if you support the top of the motor with an engine support, drop the front sub-frame and oil pan and pump to get access. The M54 motor in the 330i does not suffer from this issue.
I know it sounds like a lot of work, but the cars are very good. There is a reason why most of the cars on track (at least in the Northeast) are BMW 3 series.
Like Mr Wolfe, I did the work myself. Good welding skills and equipment are required though.
11-27-2018, 05:43 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Mr. Wolfe
11-27-2018, 06:05 PM
#33
The need for reinforcements depends on the amount of stress and flexing the chassis is subjected to. A novice driver on street tires will be stressing the chassis much less than an advanced driver on Toyo Rr’s who in turn willl stress the chassis much less than a racer on Hoosier A7s. You could get away with not doing anything but fresh fluids until you graduate to the intermediate level. At that time it is better to get it done. It is cheaper and easier to reinforce before tearing occurs.
If if you are looking for something to use exclusively for the track you may want to shop on racingjunk.com. Look in the NASA GTS section under road racing cars. Sometimes there are “track” prepped cars in addition to fully race prepped cars.
If if you are looking for something to use exclusively for the track you may want to shop on racingjunk.com. Look in the NASA GTS section under road racing cars. Sometimes there are “track” prepped cars in addition to fully race prepped cars.
11-27-2018, 07:06 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
The need for reinforcements depends on the amount of stress and flexing the chassis is subjected to. A novice driver on street tires will be stressing the chassis much less than an advanced driver on Toyo Rr’s who in turn willl stress the chassis much less than a racer on Hoosier A7s. You could get away with not doing anything but fresh fluids until you graduate to the intermediate level. At that time it is better to get it done. It is cheaper and easier to reinforce before tearing occurs.
If if you are looking for something to use exclusively for the track you may want to shop on racingjunk.com. Look in the NASA GTS section under road racing cars. Sometimes there are “track” prepped cars in addition to fully race prepped cars.
If if you are looking for something to use exclusively for the track you may want to shop on racingjunk.com. Look in the NASA GTS section under road racing cars. Sometimes there are “track” prepped cars in addition to fully race prepped cars.
Heading into winter, track days are few and I'll have more time to scan the web for better deals (BTW, WTF is up with BAT prices, who are those guys bidding blind? Above market and you never got to see/drive it?!)
I think the Boxster and Cayman, S2k are all excellent options, but for now I will focus on a BMW, 330 (thank you for the suggestion) may be the best entry point; plenty of car for the beginner girls and me too, I am no Senna but it will be fun to be as good as the car for once.
Unless of course an Estoril/black e36M comes along, 'I'll keep you all posted, many thanks for all the insight, much appreciated.
11-27-2018, 08:16 PM
#35
I know how scope creep goes. In September of 2006 I decided I wanted to buy a manual transmission car I could use to learn how to drive on track. I just got into autox that year using an automatic Mercedes Benz SLK32 AMG. I started looking at a Miata. After optioning it the way I wanted I realized I could afford a 350Z. After optioning the Z I realized I could afford an M3. After optioning the M3 I realized I could afford a 997. After optioning the 997 I realized I could afford a GT3. I almost convinced myself to get an RS, but my wife liked the rear wing on the GT3 so the game stopped there. So I went into a dealer to buy a new Miata and ended up with a new GT3. My buddies still do not know how I pulled it off. Funny thing is once my wife saw how fast I drove it on track she demanded I put a cage in it or buy a race car. I ended up with a race car in the end and I snuck in some DE days in the GT3 to exercise it. I don't know how I get away with half the crap I pull.
11-27-2018, 08:31 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
The need for reinforcements depends on the amount of stress and flexing the chassis is subjected to. A novice driver on street tires will be stressing the chassis much less than an advanced driver on Toyo Rr’s who in turn willl stress the chassis much less than a racer on Hoosier A7s. You could get away with not doing anything but fresh fluids until you graduate to the intermediate level. At that time it is better to get it done. It is cheaper and easier to reinforce before tearing occurs.
If if you are looking for something to use exclusively for the track you may want to shop on racingjunk.com. Look in the NASA GTS section under road racing cars. Sometimes there are “track” prepped cars in addition to fully race prepped cars.
If if you are looking for something to use exclusively for the track you may want to shop on racingjunk.com. Look in the NASA GTS section under road racing cars. Sometimes there are “track” prepped cars in addition to fully race prepped cars.
Mr. Wolfe
11-27-2018, 08:33 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
Thanks, Looking more for a street car. Problem is, I start looking at a $7500 car with needs, then see one for $10,000 and fewer needs. Some of the $15,000 cars have much of what I want already done but then, before you know it I am looking at $20k and a car too nice to track!
Heading into winter, track days are few and I'll have more time to scan the web for better deals (BTW, WTF is up with BAT prices, who are those guys bidding blind? Above market and you never got to see/drive it?!)
I think the Boxster and Cayman, S2k are all excellent options, but for now I will focus on a BMW, 330 (thank you for the suggestion) may be the best entry point; plenty of car for the beginner girls and me too, I am no Senna but it will be fun to be as good as the car for once.
Unless of course an Estoril/black e36M comes along, 'I'll keep you all posted, many thanks for all the insight, much appreciated.
Heading into winter, track days are few and I'll have more time to scan the web for better deals (BTW, WTF is up with BAT prices, who are those guys bidding blind? Above market and you never got to see/drive it?!)
I think the Boxster and Cayman, S2k are all excellent options, but for now I will focus on a BMW, 330 (thank you for the suggestion) may be the best entry point; plenty of car for the beginner girls and me too, I am no Senna but it will be fun to be as good as the car for once.
Unless of course an Estoril/black e36M comes along, 'I'll keep you all posted, many thanks for all the insight, much appreciated.
Mr. Wolfe
11-27-2018, 09:11 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I know how scope creep goes. In September of 2006 I decided I wanted to buy a manual transmission car I could use to learn how to drive on track. I just got into autox that year using an automatic Mercedes Benz SLK32 AMG. I started looking at a Miata. After optioning it the way I wanted I realized I could afford a 350Z. After optioning the Z I realized I could afford an M3. After optioning the M3 I realized I could afford a 997. After optioning the 997 I realized I could afford a GT3. I almost convinced myself to get an RS, but my wife liked the rear wing on the GT3 so the game stopped there. So I went into a dealer to buy a new Miata and ended up with a new GT3. My buddies still do not know how I pulled it off. Funny thing is once my wife saw how fast I drove it on track she demanded I put a cage in it or buy a race car. I ended up with a race car in the end and I snuck in some DE days in the GT3 to exercise it. I don't know how I get away with half the crap I pull.
11-27-2018, 09:15 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I am going to focus on the 330 but honestly, if a 10 foot paint e36m comes my way, I'll be a GoatFarmer too.
11-27-2018, 09:53 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
Mr Wolfe, I hear the e36 does not have the same problem is that true? Other problems sure (cooling being their version of IMS) but no need to weld the sub frame on a e36?
I am going to focus on the 330 but honestly, if a 10 foot paint e36m comes my way, I'll be a GoatFarmer too.
I am going to focus on the 330 but honestly, if a 10 foot paint e36m comes my way, I'll be a GoatFarmer too.
Mr. Wolfe
11-28-2018, 09:42 PM
#42
Drifting
Phil
11-29-2018, 12:39 AM
#44
Drifting
11-29-2018, 03:58 AM
#45
^^^
A S2k just drove by while I was walking the dog race prepped, looked pretty beefy, a little loud in an obnoxious way but still, pretty interesting. Great looking girl driving (I am married, not dead) plate read DADSRCR, tells you something.
Do you have a line on a good S2k forum? I'll do a little light reconnoitering.
A S2k just drove by while I was walking the dog race prepped, looked pretty beefy, a little loud in an obnoxious way but still, pretty interesting. Great looking girl driving (I am married, not dead) plate read DADSRCR, tells you something.
Do you have a line on a good S2k forum? I'll do a little light reconnoitering.
I know how scope creep goes. In September of 2006 I decided I wanted to buy a manual transmission car I could use to learn how to drive on track. I just got into autox that year using an automatic Mercedes Benz SLK32 AMG. I started looking at a Miata. After optioning it the way I wanted I realized I could afford a 350Z. After optioning the Z I realized I could afford an M3. After optioning the M3 I realized I could afford a 997. After optioning the 997 I realized I could afford a GT3. I almost convinced myself to get an RS, but my wife liked the rear wing on the GT3 so the game stopped there. So I went into a dealer to buy a new Miata and ended up with a new GT3. My buddies still do not know how I pulled it off. Funny thing is once my wife saw how fast I drove it on track she demanded I put a cage in it or buy a race car. I ended up with a race car in the end and I snuck in some DE days in the GT3 to exercise it. I don't know how I get away with half the crap I pull.
I've never heard of this before- my understanding is except for the very early 95's the M3's had a factory reinforced subframe mounts. I've tracked mine since 2016 - a very reputable shop the preps a lot of E36 M3's does all of the work on car, they never made mention of this.
Phil
Phil