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964 and 993 prices now the same?

 
Old 11-25-2018, 08:14 PM
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misterbeverlyhills
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Default 964 and 993 prices now the same?

Something leapt out at me glancing through the classifieds in Panorama; there was not one 964 C2 coupe offered for sale yet over a dozen 993 C2 coupes.

More shocking was that all of the 993 C2s were priced under $60k and many in the high 40s.

What's going on? Like all of you here, I stay mildly aware of cars being offered and prices asked, I have no idea what they ultimately sell for. I hear folks here sometimes refer to a car that went for "serious money" but I have no idea what that means; my dad thought $100 was pretty serious.

Just recently a poster here looking for a unique color was shown links to cars asking $110k-130k. 964 C2 5speed coupes(!) I get the color premium. But I routinely see $60k and up for 964 coupes in the usual silverwhiteblackred.

It can't just be the Singer effect, I hear they are sourcing cars globally now as RHD/LHD means nothing as does Tip/MT.

I did speak briefly last week with someone who sells a lot of 964s, showed me a nice car he has coming up, it will be "only" $60 he said, no point in getting greedy, wants it gone. Is $60k now the Black Friday price on a nice C2 coupe?

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Old 11-26-2018, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by misterbeverlyhills View Post
Something leapt out at me glancing through the classifieds in Panorama; there was not one 964 C2 coupe offered for sale yet over a dozen 993 C2 coupes.

More shocking was that all of the 993 C2s were priced under $60k and many in the high 40s.

What's going on? Like all of you here, I stay mildly aware of cars being offered and prices asked, I have no idea what they ultimately sell for. I hear folks here sometimes refer to a car that went for "serious money" but I have no idea what that means; my dad thought $100 was pretty serious.

Just recently a poster here looking for a unique color was shown links to cars asking $110k-130k. 964 C2 5speed coupes(!) I get the color premium. But I routinely see $60k and up for 964 coupes in the usual silverwhiteblackred.

It can't just be the Singer effect, I hear they are sourcing cars globally now as RHD/LHD means nothing as does Tip/MT.

I did speak briefly last week with someone who sells a lot of 964s, showed me a nice car he has coming up, it will be "only" $60 he said, no point in getting greedy, wants it gone. Is $60k now the Black Friday price on a nice C2 coupe?

Supply and demand and unlike the 964 there is a huge supply of nice 993's to be had. They are still holding their value but a nice 964 will easily bring more than a comparable 993 these days. I would say this has been going on for a number of years now. Sale price data doesn't tell the entire story. Most all 964's like the black one currently on BaT and most that have sold there have hidden issues and prior accident damage as where most of the 993's are free of these issues. You have to be an educated buyer more than ever and when a good 964 comes along it will be pricey or you found the owner who didn't do his research and doesn't use the internet.

There are very few good 964 coupes for sale. Most are needy and most aren't worth buying unless you plan to dump huge money into them. I see more and more buyers settling for a car with issues buying them as cheap as they can and then doing a full engine out rebuild and full windows out restoration. Finding a unique color is not easy and in almost all cases a compromise or two will be needed to get a car worth rebuilding.

More than likely the car for $60k will have needs at that price.
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Old 11-26-2018, 12:42 PM
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Good points Anthony, one other I think is the price curve. 8 or 9 years ago you could buy a very decent 964 in the mid to high teens, owners don't spend huge amounts of money maintaining a mid teens car. 993s were never in the mid teens or anywhere close, mid 50s more like, one would tend to spend on maintenance for a 50k car.
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Old 11-26-2018, 02:22 PM
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Unlike the 964, the NB 993 are not as coveted and in demand as the NB 964 C2/C4. IMHO, the WB 993 looks MUCH better compared to the NB, and the pricing reflects this.
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Old 11-26-2018, 03:43 PM
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Market price:
964 C2 > 993 C2 due to supply availability
993 C4 > 964 C4. 993s are much easier to convert to C2s.
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Old 11-26-2018, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by synth19 View Post
Unlike the 964, the NB 993 are not as coveted and in demand as the NB 964 C2/C4. IMHO, the WB 993 looks MUCH better compared to the NB, and the pricing reflects this.
MUCH better? Given the fact that the S are about an ich wider on each side You really need to see the "S" badge from behind to be sure that it's a wide body 993!

It was long ago now that the 993 was the "King of Porsche" and the "Most sought after air cooled 911s", The loong hoods are the hottest 911s nowadays and it's great go se the 964s rise from the uggly duckling pond!

I started i thread about this in the 993 forum but that was, believe me, not the place to discuss such matters!
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Old 11-26-2018, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
Supply and demand and unlike the 964 there is a huge supply of nice 993's to be had. They are still holding their value but a nice 964 will easily bring more than a comparable 993 these days. I would say this has been going on for a number of years now. Sale price data doesn't tell the entire story. Most all 964's like the black one currently on BaT and most that have sold there have hidden issues and prior accident damage as where most of the 993's are free of these issues. You have to be an educated buyer more than ever and when a good 964 comes along it will be pricey or you found the owner who didn't do his research and doesn't use the internet.

There are very few good 964 coupes for sale. Most are needy and most aren't worth buying unless you plan to dump huge money into them. I see more and more buyers settling for a car with issues buying them as cheap as they can and then doing a full engine out rebuild and full windows out restoration. Finding a unique color is not easy and in almost all cases a compromise or two will be needed to get a car worth rebuilding.

More than likely the car for $60k will have needs at that price.

As usual Anthony speaks the truth.

I have four 964's at present... the highest-acquisition-cost ones I bought have turned out to be definitely 'cheapest' ones when all is done and the cars are rehabbed to a point I can legitimately say all is right and the car needs nothing.

Most recent buy was a 92 C2 bought in the high $40's... a bargain, right??? NO. It needs so much body and paint wise it will be a $75-80 car when all is said and done. And that is with a power train that is basically sound. If not, then it would approach becoming a $100 car...

This having been said, in my case, I have good shops I work with and it is fun process to 'heal up' these cars, and in doing so, add some nice personalized and performance-oriented touches to them, so when they are done, they look/feel special and much better drivers' cars than stock... but still the process is definitely not for the faint of heart nor the light of wallet.

The truism still holds, and is more true than ever, for 964's -- pay up front or pay later and paying later is higher risk with unknown bounds. If you are highly competent mechanically and can do body work on your own the equation may be different.

Also, yes, that black one in RI on BaT is trouble rolling on 4 wheels!
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Old 11-26-2018, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Railmaster. View Post
MUCH better? Given the fact that the S are about an ich wider on each side You really need to see the "S" badge from behind to be sure that it's a wide body 993!

It was long ago now that the 993 was the "King of Porsche" and the "Most sought after air cooled 911s", The loong hoods are the hottest 911s nowadays and it's great go se the 964s rise from the uggly duckling pond!

I started i thread about this in the 993 forum but that was, believe me, not the place to discuss such matters!
Regardless of an inch or not, this is really noticeable IMO. Wide looks better IMHO.


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Old 11-26-2018, 05:06 PM
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I actually enjoy the drive of my 964 better than my 993

Never thought that would be the case when I bought it.

But yeah seems less 964s are out there in great shape. I paid a fair bit for mine as it was in exceptional shape.
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Old 11-26-2018, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by synth19 View Post
Regardless of an inch or not, this is really noticeable IMO. Wide looks better IMHO.

Wider does look more beefy and butch but Iris Blue, damn, that's a fine color.
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Old 11-26-2018, 10:23 PM
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If you ask me the 1" wider is a misnomer. They claim the rear flairs on the 928GTS are only 1" but are clearly obvious and I would say are closer to 3" I think the track is 1" wider but the bodywork extends out further.

Although as of late I find a top quality C2 964 will sell for as much or more than a top quality 993 C2S. I looked at a nice 60k mile C2S and I know I can purchase it for far less than my 61k mile 964 C2. I like the 993 but I just can't bring myself to love them. I do like many of the unseen upgrades but the rest never sits well with me and they are too unnecessarily complicated for an air-cooled.



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Old 11-26-2018, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
I like the 993 but I just can't bring myself to love them. I do like many of the unseen upgrades but the rest never sits well with me and they are too unnecessarily complicated for an air-cooled.


I kind of agree. Personally, I just feel the 993 didn't age as well. For some reason it looks a little outdated, but this is obviously subjective. I love the rear of the 993 though. I just don't like the flattened headlights and the rounded fender wells look kit(ish) to me.

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Old 11-27-2018, 12:18 AM
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There is a nice looking 993 (sadly with a tip) on this site for 37k. Looks OK.
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Old 11-27-2018, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by misterbeverlyhills View Post
Good points Anthony, one other I think is the price curve. 8 or 9 years ago you could buy a very decent 964 in the mid to high teens, owners don't spend huge amounts of money maintaining a mid teens car. 993s were never in the mid teens or anywhere close, mid 50s more like, one would tend to spend on maintenance for a 50k car.
This is an incredibly strong point.
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Old 11-27-2018, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Greg Wolfe View Post
I kind of agree. Personally, I just feel the 993 didn't age as well. For some reason it looks a little outdated, but this is obviously subjective. I love the rear of the 993 though. I just don't like the flattened headlights and the rounded fender wells look kit(ish) to me.

Mr. Wolfe
+1! Even as a 993 owner I find the F and G series more attractive! I bet that the younger generations born in the 80s and 90s will find the 993s very attractive in the future, older dudes like us will find the older cars more attractive!
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