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964 and 993 prices now the same?

 
Old 12-08-2018, 08:53 AM
  #31  
cobalt
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Originally Posted by james.fox View Post
Does anybody have a plot chart of recent 964 sale prices. Price on y axis, mileage on x axis? Could be broken down by MT, TT, Turbo, etc. Given the thread, would think most others would be interested in this, and for 993s.
The problem with charts like that is they don't indicate condition, accident damage, engine rebuild, respray, etc, etc. It doesn't mean much without knowing the history of the vehicle.
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Old 12-08-2018, 11:17 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
The problem with charts like that is they don't indicate condition, accident damage, engine rebuild, respray, etc, etc. It doesn't mean much without knowing the history of the vehicle.
I agree, so much about the cars are subjective and besides, desirability changes over time( no one seems to want a black car these days).

Graphs are great, just not for cars......women.....wine......

Mooty's white car went at a $70k ask, the Jap import in a great color went for $85k plus buyer premium. I bet Mooty's is a MUCH better car.

Point is, that white 993 with stunning blue interior (but lousy wheels) is a steal at $39k, almost half Mooty's 964.
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Old 12-08-2018, 11:48 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
The problem with charts like that is they don't indicate condition, accident damage, engine rebuild, respray, etc, etc. It doesn't mean much without knowing the history of the vehicle.
Completely agree. However, always think its good to have some level of quantitative data as a baseline, and you qualitatively adjust from there. With cars like these, qualitative is always > quantitative. Also kind of fun to see trends and popularity shifts over time.

Here are links to two fftfk posts (most recent is first).
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...-analysis.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...-analysis.html
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Old 12-08-2018, 01:22 PM
  #34  
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Iím a little confused. Or maybe just donít have my facts straight. Why are there graphs for Tiptronic C4ís? Iíve been under the impression for a long time that Tip=C2?

Thanks for reposting those links. Wonder why my MY (Ď91) shows as the year with the lowest average price. Iíd love to know more about the influences on the data. I.e safe to say sales were through the roof for Ď90 because of the C2 debut, yeah?
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Old 12-08-2018, 01:51 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
The problem with charts like that is they don't indicate condition, accident damage, engine rebuild, respray, etc, etc. It doesn't mean much without knowing the history of the vehicle.
Originally Posted by Bigsix964 View Post
Iím a little confused. Or maybe just donít have my facts straight. Why are there graphs for Tiptronic C4ís? Iíve been under the impression for a long time that Tip=C2?

Thanks for reposting those links. Wonder why my MY (Ď91) shows as the year with the lowest average price. Iíd love to know more about the influences on the data. I.e safe to say sales were through the roof for Ď90 because of the C2 debut, yeah?
What Anthony notes in his reply is why graphs and curves are not a great way to accurately value a classic car. Assuming condition is equal 90 and 91ís should have equal pricing these days since their engines have very likely been resealed and any clutch issues resolved. Maybe the 91ís that were used to generate this data were all tired examples in need of lots of work which drags down the price, who knows really because the data doesnít dive that deep. Hagerty at least differentiates between a Condition 1 and 3 car but Iím not sure how they establish condition/price.
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Old 12-08-2018, 02:06 PM
  #36  
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Thanks for clearing that up.
Now for the other (more confusing to me) half. Have I gone this whole time not aware of the existence of Tiptronic C4ís?
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Old 12-10-2018, 10:02 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Bigsix964 View Post
Iím a little confused. Or maybe just donít have my facts straight. Why are there graphs for Tiptronic C4ís? Iíve been under the impression for a long time that Tip=C2?
AFAIK there were no C4 Tips. There is only one tip trans and it wouldn't work in a C4. Data is always good to have but even Hagerty which makes a huge effort to track auction pricing has no clue to current value of these cars. Their valuation system works better for more mass produced cars. Small volume cars like the 964 are usually either too high or too low. They have the 3.3l 964 turbo valued for more money than the 94 3.6T 964 even though they don't note it as a 94 but a 93. In actuality a pristine 3.6T will usually sell for double that of a pristine 3.3T. Although there are far more pristine 3.3L's that come up for sale at auction than 3.6T's which usually sell privately skewing the data.

I sold my pristine 1974 2.0L 914 back in 2002. I had a tire kicker look the car over and argue with me how Anderson's Valuation for my car in Excellence magazine was only $5200. I was asking $10k. I laughed and he insisted i was out of my mind. I sold the car a week later for $9500 and it sold again a year after that for $15k. I bumped into him a year later he had purchased a car for $4400 and he admitted he had to put $4k into it to get it to run right. When I looked at the car it was a complete turd vs my car which was in Concours condition.

When/if you find a clean original car that needs nothing or little I wouldn't hesitate to pay the price. Data is nice but it is hard to quantify value.
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Old 12-10-2018, 11:38 AM
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"When/if you find a clean original car that needs nothing or little I wouldn't hesitate to pay the price. Data is nice but it is hard to quantify value."

This is so true.
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Old 12-15-2018, 11:26 AM
  #39  
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Fashion is a fickle thing. Not so long ago the 964 was the red headed step child and now its gods gift to 911s. Wonder what's next. Either way they are all great cars.... And to me the 964 and the 993 are the best of the air cooled. But values are only for the moment and flip back and forth depending on trends. The old school outlaw theme is currently driving 964s. A little while back it was the forward date movement that drove 993 prices up. Not holding my breath to see what comes next to once again mess up prices.
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Old 12-15-2018, 06:39 PM
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997 will be next but I don’t think it will impact air cooled prices.

It would be nice if the public figured out how good the midengine Porsche’s are and gave them some love.
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Old 12-17-2018, 08:48 AM
  #41  
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The mid engine cars are great and very capable but will never replace the air cooleds for me and most I know. I don't see anything changing much from where it sits in the air cooled world. The only change i foresee is the values of cars based on condition. The nice cars commanding more and the damaged goods less. There is no changing the production numbers or numbers remaining which seems to have more influence on the market than anything.

I am seeing more and more interest in other marques and the earlier water cooled Porsche's which seems to be the hot markets on the rise. The earlier 928's are seeing a huge jump in value.
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Old 12-18-2018, 12:05 AM
  #42  
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Let me know when cabs start rising in value.
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Old 12-18-2018, 11:12 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Norse_man View Post
Let me know when cabs start rising in value.
Don't hold your breath. No offence.

I am loathe to take the 964 out in anything resembling traffic. When the tail is up, pretty much anything wants to drag race with me. I am looking to get a 90s M3 to have some fun with at a low entry price. I would have preferred a 996 but it seems every one is black/silver/grey or red. Anything blue or interesting color then has a light grey or beige interior. Is there a puke icon?
I drove a 2015 911 today with PDK. Awesome. Makes the 964 feel like a bi-plane next to a F-16. But you have to drive the 964, the 911 ( I forget what it is 991.1234 or something,) you just punch in the coordinates. I drove it along Mulholland drive's old racecourse and hammered it. It didn't flinch. If you superimposed the film like they do on downhill ski races on TV, the 2015 driver would be sunning himself on the hood when the 964 crossed the line.
You can't see out the sides but it's OK, there is a camera plus warning bongs. Question is: when you buy one, do they suck out half your brain?
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Old 12-19-2018, 08:46 AM
  #44  
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DId anyone see the 90 targa roller on BaT bring $16k for a tub and tranny. I have perfect G64 tranny and I can't sell it for anything yet this brought huge money. It would have been cheaper to spend up for a decent targa or cab and convert it than what it will cost to build this back to something that resembles a car. I miss the days you could buy a full project car complete for $10k
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Old 12-21-2018, 01:11 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
I miss the days you could buy a full project car complete for $10k
It does take the fun out of it doesn't it. I always think about the original paint Signal Yellow '71 911S I bought in 2001, took it home for $17K and thought I overpaid. Oh man, I just realized I sound like my father.
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