Engine died on highway at 60mph...
09-05-2018, 01:13 AM
#17
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Sounds like fuel pump to me, because of the hard-start issue. An old fuel pump that is on the way out can take a long crank, or a few cranks, before building enough pressure to start and usually it will sound like it *wants* to start but can’t quite. If, that time when the engine shut off while tou were driving, the engine started to stumble before it died that would cement it for me. Once the engine stalls all your dash warnings will come on of course
However, if it really is like a knife switch then look to electrical issues first. I.e. if the slow start problem is “engine turns but does not try to fire at all, then suddenly starts just fine” that would suggest electrical to me: coils, DME or immobilizer.
However, if it really is like a knife switch then look to electrical issues first. I.e. if the slow start problem is “engine turns but does not try to fire at all, then suddenly starts just fine” that would suggest electrical to me: coils, DME or immobilizer.
Definitely put the 993 coil swap on my list of things to do. Is main power feed easily checked?
09-05-2018, 03:38 AM
#18
Burning Brakes
Both the coils and the fuel pump may be contributing to the issue.
Fuel filter replaced recently at all? Another item that may be contributing.
My fuel pump was super noisy and I replaced it because it was struggling starting and would sometimes stall. The pump back then was under 300 USD and I looked at it like a normal maintenance item for a 18 year old car. The new pump barely hums, it is less noticable than the ABS pump in the frunk.
I'm just saying keep an open mind on this and you could tackle one at a time. Silver coils are crap, you will want to get rid of them anyway... so you could use his as your starting point. It is also not very complicated and plug n play kits are available. If you still have an issue, look further. Fuel filter is a maintenance item and cheap to replace, so again something that isn't going to hurt to do.
Fuel filter replaced recently at all? Another item that may be contributing.
My fuel pump was super noisy and I replaced it because it was struggling starting and would sometimes stall. The pump back then was under 300 USD and I looked at it like a normal maintenance item for a 18 year old car. The new pump barely hums, it is less noticable than the ABS pump in the frunk.
I'm just saying keep an open mind on this and you could tackle one at a time. Silver coils are crap, you will want to get rid of them anyway... so you could use his as your starting point. It is also not very complicated and plug n play kits are available. If you still have an issue, look further. Fuel filter is a maintenance item and cheap to replace, so again something that isn't going to hurt to do.
09-05-2018, 09:33 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Both the coils and the fuel pump may be contributing to the issue.
Fuel filter replaced recently at all? Another item that may be contributing.
My fuel pump was super noisy and I replaced it because it was struggling starting and would sometimes stall. The pump back then was under 300 USD and I looked at it like a normal maintenance item for a 18 year old car. The new pump barely hums, it is less noticable than the ABS pump in the frunk.
I'm just saying keep an open mind on this and you could tackle one at a time. Silver coils are crap, you will want to get rid of them anyway... so you could use his as your starting point. It is also not very complicated and plug n play kits are available. If you still have an issue, look further. Fuel filter is a maintenance item and cheap to replace, so again something that isn't going to hurt to do.
Fuel filter replaced recently at all? Another item that may be contributing.
My fuel pump was super noisy and I replaced it because it was struggling starting and would sometimes stall. The pump back then was under 300 USD and I looked at it like a normal maintenance item for a 18 year old car. The new pump barely hums, it is less noticable than the ABS pump in the frunk.
I'm just saying keep an open mind on this and you could tackle one at a time. Silver coils are crap, you will want to get rid of them anyway... so you could use his as your starting point. It is also not very complicated and plug n play kits are available. If you still have an issue, look further. Fuel filter is a maintenance item and cheap to replace, so again something that isn't going to hurt to do.
09-05-2018, 02:47 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
I had an intermittent engine kill issue in my rsa many years ago. It only had 30k miles and was 5 years old so this is something that can crop up even in a relatively new car.
In my case it was an issue with the grounds. After removing, cleaning and retightening each ground it never recurred.
Good luck!
In my case it was an issue with the grounds. After removing, cleaning and retightening each ground it never recurred.
Good luck!
09-05-2018, 04:48 PM
#22
Instructor
Greg, based on your added detail "Second time it happened it definitely slowly started to lose engine power and then it cut out. Also happened in the parking lot shortly after starting car and turning a corner barely out of first gear. Engine turns over first try and struggles to start unless I feed in the throttle. Second try fires up right away without any issues." I would start with the fuel pump and/or FPR (fuel pressure regulator).
Reasoning: the fuel pump supplies pressure to the lines/rails/injectors, usually a fair amount *more* than the engine needs. The FPR opens when pressure reaches the right level to send excess fuel back to the tank and keep pressure from going too high. A healthy pump builds pressure in about 1 second, and a healthy FPR stays closed so that the fuel pump can build pressure quickly.
a) A failing fuel pump takes longer to build pressure, may only deliver just barely enough, and can be erratic, with pressure fluctuating up and down. If that is the case then it may take several cranks before the car starts...so the pump can get itself up to task...and if fuel pressure fluctuates the engine will lose power or die. Feeding in the throttle to start is a clue, in that longer injector on-time (from your throttle input) can make up for low fuel pressure to start.
b) Sometimes an FPR can fail open or partly open, which makes it harder for the fuel pump to reach pressure. If that is the case then you'll see loss of power/missing, but not usually the whole motor cutting out
It could also be an intermittent electrical issue like a bad ground but I would start with the fuel pump. Well, I guess maybe check the battery ground strap too since it's right there and only takes 5 min to change ($10-12 for a new one from Pelican). The FPR is also pretty easy...you can see it right behind the engine fan. Reach in and pull off the vacuum hose (engine off). If fuel comes out then replace it... there are several ways it can fail but that seems to be common. There is a thread on it here somewhere.
Reasoning: the fuel pump supplies pressure to the lines/rails/injectors, usually a fair amount *more* than the engine needs. The FPR opens when pressure reaches the right level to send excess fuel back to the tank and keep pressure from going too high. A healthy pump builds pressure in about 1 second, and a healthy FPR stays closed so that the fuel pump can build pressure quickly.
a) A failing fuel pump takes longer to build pressure, may only deliver just barely enough, and can be erratic, with pressure fluctuating up and down. If that is the case then it may take several cranks before the car starts...so the pump can get itself up to task...and if fuel pressure fluctuates the engine will lose power or die. Feeding in the throttle to start is a clue, in that longer injector on-time (from your throttle input) can make up for low fuel pressure to start.
b) Sometimes an FPR can fail open or partly open, which makes it harder for the fuel pump to reach pressure. If that is the case then you'll see loss of power/missing, but not usually the whole motor cutting out
It could also be an intermittent electrical issue like a bad ground but I would start with the fuel pump. Well, I guess maybe check the battery ground strap too since it's right there and only takes 5 min to change ($10-12 for a new one from Pelican). The FPR is also pretty easy...you can see it right behind the engine fan. Reach in and pull off the vacuum hose (engine off). If fuel comes out then replace it... there are several ways it can fail but that seems to be common. There is a thread on it here somewhere.
09-05-2018, 06:24 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Greg, based on your added detail "Second time it happened it definitely slowly started to lose engine power and then it cut out. Also happened in the parking lot shortly after starting car and turning a corner barely out of first gear. Engine turns over first try and struggles to start unless I feed in the throttle. Second try fires up right away without any issues." I would start with the fuel pump and/or FPR (fuel pressure regulator).
Reasoning: the fuel pump supplies pressure to the lines/rails/injectors, usually a fair amount *more* than the engine needs. The FPR opens when pressure reaches the right level to send excess fuel back to the tank and keep pressure from going too high. A healthy pump builds pressure in about 1 second, and a healthy FPR stays closed so that the fuel pump can build pressure quickly.
a) A failing fuel pump takes longer to build pressure, may only deliver just barely enough, and can be erratic, with pressure fluctuating up and down. If that is the case then it may take several cranks before the car starts...so the pump can get itself up to task...and if fuel pressure fluctuates the engine will lose power or die. Feeding in the throttle to start is a clue, in that longer injector on-time (from your throttle input) can make up for low fuel pressure to start.
b) Sometimes an FPR can fail open or partly open, which makes it harder for the fuel pump to reach pressure. If that is the case then you'll see loss of power/missing, but not usually the whole motor cutting out
It could also be an intermittent electrical issue like a bad ground but I would start with the fuel pump. Well, I guess maybe check the battery ground strap too since it's right there and only takes 5 min to change ($10-12 for a new one from Pelican). The FPR is also pretty easy...you can see it right behind the engine fan. Reach in and pull off the vacuum hose (engine off). If fuel comes out then replace it... there are several ways it can fail but that seems to be common. There is a thread on it here somewhere.
Reasoning: the fuel pump supplies pressure to the lines/rails/injectors, usually a fair amount *more* than the engine needs. The FPR opens when pressure reaches the right level to send excess fuel back to the tank and keep pressure from going too high. A healthy pump builds pressure in about 1 second, and a healthy FPR stays closed so that the fuel pump can build pressure quickly.
a) A failing fuel pump takes longer to build pressure, may only deliver just barely enough, and can be erratic, with pressure fluctuating up and down. If that is the case then it may take several cranks before the car starts...so the pump can get itself up to task...and if fuel pressure fluctuates the engine will lose power or die. Feeding in the throttle to start is a clue, in that longer injector on-time (from your throttle input) can make up for low fuel pressure to start.
b) Sometimes an FPR can fail open or partly open, which makes it harder for the fuel pump to reach pressure. If that is the case then you'll see loss of power/missing, but not usually the whole motor cutting out
It could also be an intermittent electrical issue like a bad ground but I would start with the fuel pump. Well, I guess maybe check the battery ground strap too since it's right there and only takes 5 min to change ($10-12 for a new one from Pelican). The FPR is also pretty easy...you can see it right behind the engine fan. Reach in and pull off the vacuum hose (engine off). If fuel comes out then replace it... there are several ways it can fail but that seems to be common. There is a thread on it here somewhere.
Any reference photos/location of the engine ground strap that should be checked or you referring to the main battery ground?
09-06-2018, 12:29 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
I believe it was already mentioned but you might as well do the 993 coil swap now, you have the Bosch silver coils, I had them go bad right out of the box, only time my car has ever been flat bedded was because of those coils, she would start when cold but then bucked like a bronco on locoweed , needed full throttle to keep running but once the coil heated up it was no go.
09-06-2018, 04:45 PM
#26
Three Wheelin'
I had that for a long time, if its suddenly dies its electrical ,
short story mine was a piece of bolt jumping around in the ECU , a night mare
you may as well open the ECU and check if everything is in good order and check if the large plug connect well.
Good luck
short story mine was a piece of bolt jumping around in the ECU , a night mare
you may as well open the ECU and check if everything is in good order and check if the large plug connect well.
Good luck
09-11-2018, 03:40 AM
#28
I just wanted to follow up with the problem with my car. In my case the factory alarm was turning off the dme relay. There are 2 relays in a 1990 alarm and one is responsible for pulling the plug on the dme relay. We found this out by shaking the alarm while the car was running. Now we have simply bypassed the alarm until I gets new unit.
Not it sure if this will help but just throwing it out there. It may also be that your seeing a combination of issues but the sudden engine cutting out issue can be- wait for it.....
alarming.....
sorry- couldn’t help myself.
Pete
Not it sure if this will help but just throwing it out there. It may also be that your seeing a combination of issues but the sudden engine cutting out issue can be- wait for it.....
alarming.....
sorry- couldn’t help myself.
Pete
09-11-2018, 06:49 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I just wanted to follow up with the problem with my car. In my case the factory alarm was turning off the dme relay. There are 2 relays in a 1990 alarm and one is responsible for pulling the plug on the dme relay. We found this out by shaking the alarm while the car was running. Now we have simply bypassed the alarm until I gets new unit.
Not it sure if this will help but just throwing it out there. It may also be that your seeing a combination of issues but the sudden engine cutting out issue can be- wait for it.....
alarming.....
sorry- couldn’t help myself.
Pete
Not it sure if this will help but just throwing it out there. It may also be that your seeing a combination of issues but the sudden engine cutting out issue can be- wait for it.....
alarming.....
sorry- couldn’t help myself.
Pete