Intake madness. Teardown begins....
 

Please don't ask why. It's just madness.

I found an intake through another member. Early aluminum type.

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But - it didn't arrive without a hitch...

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So I'll figure that out prior to refinishing that piece. Total drag though. But that's life. If life gives you lemons...go drag racing?

Onward...teardown...this is going to be a boring endless set of pictures. And this project may take its time. So it won't be a daily thing, but it'll likely get somewhere. I'll apologize now if it ends up a pile of parts on my bench for years.

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and just prior...just for fun, i installed an aluminum WOT microswitch do-dad.

I had these made up a few years ago - so i have a huge inventory of these. Because everyone who hasn't replaced this little bugger - has a broken one. It just hasn't fallen off yet. Not to worry, cuz who cares if it falls off...you only lose a ton of hp since the resonance flap won't open....but no biggie. We didn't need that horse power anyway...lol

Anyway...here you go...

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And then- after fixing it with a set screw, I'm going to pop an E clip onto the shaft just to be sure it doesn't back itself off, though it shouldn't be necessary...but i like insurance

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You said don't ask why, but I'm gonna anyway. What is your goal with this teardown? Also I suspect I should order one of those WOT do-hickeys

+1 on do-hickeys - Please take my money!

I knew you were going to ask me why...cuz when you tell someone to not ask...

Pm me for the do-phramous...but if you are smart, you'll wait until i buy a box of e-clips in the correct size and I'll toss one in.

On another note. Those of you that look at the dbfd Facebook page will see the video of the little gagaramous that actuated the resonance flap...i was sucking on the vacuum tube (go ahead and make up a good one there) - butt just to see how much pressure it takes to actuate the flap and subsequently to see if that vacuum plunger was holding vacuum. Fascinating little guy.

Findings? I knew this resonance flap was sticky...but man it's REALLY sticky. Years of old oils caking in there and just humming everything up.

What's the plan?

Make it pretty.
Figure out how it all really works.
Test it against the later plastic throttle body, cuz i don't buy that the aluminum is "slower", as has been stated many times here. I think Porsche made the change simply because it was cheaper to make them out of plastic. The weight savings is minimal - and I'm not a weight weenie...so i don't worry about that. If i wanted a race car, I'd have bought one. And if i cared about weight in a street car, I'd have a caterham.

That said. I may go after some low hanging weighty fruit someday. Cuz 50 lbs is easy to find...but not today. Today is intake madness.

Oh- another interesting finding - the vacuum check valve is dead. Imagine- it didn't last 30 years. Who knew? That one is a 6 dollar part if you don't buy one from Porsche. Porsche is 25 dollars. Anyway. Easy enough to swap that out, but I'm not there yet.

Kevlar and dual wall adhesive shrink tubes coming soon.

More on that once i figure out what I'm doing.

Oh - and one more thing. I need to explore the resonance valve bushing. Everyone said the bushing/bearing or whatever it is, it's not replaceable or repairable. I don't buy that either. So i need to see it for myself.

I had a leak there many years back. The shop i was using at the time said "uh - has to be replaced" and a few thousand later, it was replaced. Did i need to spend that money. Was there another way? Enquiring minds want to know...

Anyway. Long story short. The engine bay needs help. I needed to renovate all those lines regardless. And i like to explore. But...my car is my only car. So i don't have the time to take out my intake and play with it. So having a second intake is the way. But since i have a second intake, i can do almost anything so long as it's within budget.

I had the best comment from a friend in Hong Kong last week...

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Not that i would ever start a company and call it by some incomprehensibly impossible name that doesn't roll off of anyone's tongue...singer at least was a sewing machine and has sonorous relevance....but a blank check for a corrected 964 would be a lot of fun. I've yet to drive a better car than a dbfd 964 (yes - them's fightin words- but our kids are always the coolest and best looking)...

And who has the best looking 964 on here? I do, of course!
As do you, and you, and you...

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...3e5593dea3.jpg

What is that you have wrapped around the shaft connected to the spring? Mine doesn't have it. (This is an old picture, the rust cleaned up!).

I think I'm missing what you mean? Which what wrapped around where??

Cleaning a few bits today. I have a lot more cleaning to do. This teardown is going to be lengthy. Super dirty and when you don't want to just replace everything...take your time and make determinations...

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The rubber on all of these is nice and relatively pliable- I'll replace the elbows cuz those don't use hose clamps. So newer and stickier is better...

Cruise control mech?

And back to cleaning and disassembly. I'm kind of amazed at how there are parts back there that had completely stopped functioning. Basically anything with a valve is all gummed up. Really makes me wonder what's in my car at the moment. When we did the top end build in 2011, the intake came off in large chunks and went back on in large chunks. So none of this was touched as far as i know.

Can't wait to disassemble the throttle body.
You all know i don't yet know if any of this is going to go back together....this is waaaaay more complicated than a suspension. And, btw, for far less real gain. Just sayin.

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Also- I'm amazed at how much oil is in these lines.

And take a look at this:

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That's the typical oil that that you find in the lower part of the throttle body when you take the stacks off. It was wet yesterday. Today it is dry and hard. So what gives?

Whatever it is- it's all through the system and causing the vacuum actuated parts to not function.

Did i mention that I'm also changing the charcoal canister when i do the install?

For now - I'm off to search for good quality and hopefully well designed or decent looking hose clamps. Hose clamp design, as you know, somehow has escaped the realm of those that care about looks. And so far all the decent looking ones have not much range. So i May just go for reasonable quality. And be done

These - no words really. I thought to maybe salvage them. Honestly not worth it. They need to go. So either new oem or aftermarket. I'm leaning toward oem for many reasons.

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Not sure yet. The lines are harder. And all of those seem to be salvageable. And the added hardness is a plus, so there is less inefficiency.

Haven't gotten to the slope yet. But everything that needs to be replaced is getting replaced.

Go to BMW for hose clamps, they are great quality, I did this last year and used the silicone type intake manifold rubbers from fleabay, no problems

Send me a link to the bmw clamps. I'm thinking maybe just do stainless oetiker clamps and a few hose clamps in strategic locations so that in the eventuality of anything needing to be replaced, the unit can come out and be serviced.

Hi, Interesting thread. I'm waiting for your analysis on hose clamps. Honda is big on the spring clamps and BMW used 1 ear crimp (permanent) and Okert type crimp (can be removed) clamps well as screw clamps that don't damage the hoses.

I use high pressure fuel line hose clamps don't cut into the hose.

I took my old ones into the BMW dealer and they matched them up, I will get my receipt folder out asap and post the part numbers

Thanks. Looks like AWAB and Ideal Tridon both make very good quality clamps as well. Still not so pretty, but likely candidates...

I'm leaning toward Ideal tridon lined 65E clamps.
But we will see.

Very interesting/informative thread... collective thanks for taking the dive. Not directly related to your project, but close... years ago when I rebuilt my engine I was amazed at the poor fit between the phenolic spigots that bolt directly to the intake ports on heads. I was obsessed with matching them but found that to get a smooth flow from the spigot to the aluminum intake port I had to cut into the o-ring grooves that seats and seals them to the heads. I epoxied up the o-ring grooves, machined the mating surface flat and ground away to get a smooth transition. I then used a motorcycle sealant, Yamabond No. 4, to seal the now o-ring-less spigots to the heads. 10+ years and still no leaks... sorry, no pics. Also, HPS Silicone Hoses has a nice collections of hose clamps... good looking as well.

Their smartseals are more like oetiker clamps. And don't waste your time with the aftermarket thermoset polyurethane intake sleeves. Long term they won't be able to take the heat cycling.

That's what i was thinking too Jason. The oem seals are really the best fit, also because they are molded into shape and provide the best seal under the lowest clamp pressure- so if the hose clamp looses a bit as they can tend to do, you still don't experience vacuum leaks as easily.
No need to buy something one has to over tighten in order to keep a seal.

I could buy a good soft used set if they haven't been subjected to the amount of corrosion these ones have been subjected to...dunno yet. It'll depend on what i find. I'm still in disassembly and discovery/learning mode.

BMW part numbers are 07 12 9 952 133 (I bought 5)
07 12 9 952 135 (I bought 4)

These are the larger clamps that they had to order, The clamps for the intake sleeves were in stock, cant find receipt for part number

Thanks!

Yeah. I looked at the p2m clamps. A little too much of a mismatch for the aesthetics in the bay.

I think just a good high quality stainless hose clamp will be good- with a liner.

I'm kind of leaning toward high quality lined stainless oetiker's for the areas where the oem were oetiker. Not for all of them but most of these hoses are attached to bits that will basically never need service. The evap vac valve has a bladder, and so that every so often will need to go. The thing is- these larger lines are carrying fuel vapors...so this is why Porsche uses lined oetikers and heavier duty lined fuel line type hose clamps (less likelihood of loosening up.

For the other bits- air vac lines and the clamps for the isv, good quality stainless hose clamps.

And same for the intake to the throttle body- only bigger. Design-wise for these, I'd like something of the same old-school look, just cleaned up a bit and a bit more refined...but not by much. One of those things that honestly if i really wanted it the way i want it, I'd have to design it myself. Which is should do...i could ditch the financial planning/wealth management gig, and get back to my roots as a Milanese product designer...lol. But then, I'd never get anything done and my hose clamps would never actually get designed cuz I'd be at Bar Basso bitching long form in wordy Italian paragraphs (albeit, poetically) about Alfa Romeo and the wrong direction they have taken, and all the subtlety they missed...by trying to out do bmw, which they won't and can't do.



In other news, i bought a box of the stainless eclips i needed for the aluminum WOT do-dads...

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A few of you guys have enquired. I'm not the best sometimes at responding - so if i miss it or take too long, I'll just apologize now. You would all be waaaaaaay better off shooting my wife a msg. Cuz she is significantly better at life than I...

Anyway- i will get back and i will respond. And if you want one, I'll send them once i get the e-clips...cuz though they have a set screw and work fine without, I'd feel more comfortable with, and so I'm sure everyone else would agree.

Oh- and one more tidbit- this little guy...

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Is made by Pierburg and many cars used them. I didn't check sunset, but the other suppliers i found were all around 25-26 dollars plus shipping. If you type in "pierburg air check valve" in amazon, you'll see a Volvo one for 19 dollars and free prime shipping. That's the cheapest i found for an oem type replacement. You can, however replace this with anything of similar size that fits the lines, as long as it functions the same way. Air goes one direction.
I suggest that if you haven't replaced yours, take yours out. Blow through one side and then the other. If it's not working, you'll know. And then just replace if yours is bad. It's a necessary part.
And they get gummed up- now that I'm see that on all these Audi and VW and Volvo all these guys say the same about this part getting gummed up and causing probs. So out it goes.

So there has been a lot of cleaning going on, and more coming.

But my Kevlar sleeving arrived today. So i decided that it would be a good idea to dive in and do a test fit. Before i get to the pics, understand that this is a test, and I'm not happy with what i have done, so there will be a version 2....so don't hate.

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Getting this tubing to slip over the hose is crazy difficult, and I'm using a thin Kevlar, so the weave/braid is not tight. Makes it practically impossible.

Also. I need a set of Kevlar shears. My heavy duty kitchen shears can barely cut the Kevlar. So those will get ordered.

Also. The length of tube i cut, seemed to be long enough, but not nearly log enough once it finally went on.

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So that's coming back off...

And the other problem is the color of the Kevlar is great until you give it a black background, and then it's a kind of green. Which I'm unhappy with. So I'll need to fix that as well.

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So onward. First attempt- fail. But i learned a bit. So it was worth the try.

Pro tip - turn shield inside out except for the first 1/4". Insert tip of tube into the part that is not inside out. "roll" the rest of it onto the tube. This worked well for me with a similar looking product, although it was not Kevlar. Good luck!

That's what worked in the end. I'm thinking I need to go one size up on the tube and color the hose prior to install....

Cleaning the intake manifolds today. And first pass at the throttle body.

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It's amazing how much gunk is in there. And the wild thing is how gritty it is- and how difficult it is to remove. When you see the "clean pics" below, they have been scrubbed first with wd40 to break it up, then dawn dishwashing liquid and then with my pressure washer. And they still are a little dirty...but clean enough to get to work on them.

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Likelihood of these staying clean? Not much. But i have some ideas...coming soon if i decide to go through with it...but you know I'm completely winging this entire project and have no real plan...so where the wind blows...maybe it's a hawk, maybe a hand saw....i don't care cuz herons are equally as cool as hawks...

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Now take a look at one of these manifolds...

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Notice where all the crud is...this is telling you that you have blow by though the intake seals...

In this case, the seals are old and lots of crud has built up under them..

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So if you want these things to function well, and you want no vacuum leaks, etc...it's not imperative...but a nice to have is to keep these clean and have a reasonably good seal (without having to crank down with huge pressure on the hose clamps.

Small bits of efficiency sometimes go a long way. All of us , for the most part, have cars that run. How many of us can say they run right? Or run at their best?

I drive a lot of 964's, and they ALL feel a little different from one to the other. It's crazy how much variation there is in stock motors...and really...it's this stuff that is making the difference..a little bit here and a little bit there. This microswitch clicking - that one not, this knock sensor works, that one doesn't. This vacuum Y Connector holds perfectly, that one, mostly...

Onward. It's been a long day. I have to go see Ant Man and the Wasp (my kid who used to ride in the booster seat in the back of the 964 is today all about Marvel movies....in four years, she's getting a 914 as a starter car...)

So - i have some thoughts and comments about the throttle body. They will have to wait till later.

Cliff hanger...

Got to Ant Man and the Wasp...very early, and there were two seats left, and neither were together. So i just went out for ice cream, and ate enough to make my car noticeably slower.

Now i have to get rid of the oem carpet and buy an rs kit to compensate. Ugh.

First thoughts on the throttle body, and please chime in if you have any real knowledge here, cuz as much as i like to feel I'm the smartest person in every room I'm in...well...feelings aren't facts. And i am fully aware of that.

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So there are two plenums, they go to the same place. One isn't different than the other, and they work in tandem and at the same rate. The only difference in their movement is that the little one opens a couple millimeters first and then rest of its travel is one to one with the larger plenum.

Next up. Why the resonance flap (and the other plenum flaps) are not serviceable...

They are. But it would be silly to bother...

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So you'ld think you could just pull the e clip and slide out the shaft. On one side there is a clip, and the other there is the spring assembly and the arm is pressed and peened to the shaft.

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So easy enough. Should just come apart.

But...

The flap is screwed to the shaft, which is smart right? Except that if the screws were to come out, your motor would be toast. Last thing anyone needs is to have a screw in the cylinder. Ka boom...ka chunk...and that's that.

So the boys at Porsche decided to screw the flap to the shaft, and then to press peen the back side of the screw, so under no circumstances is that screw coming out. Unless you dremel it. And then replace it, and then re-peen it.

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So- therefore - is the resonance flap serviceable ? Yes. Maybe. I don't know what's in there for a bearing. But i am surmising that yes, if you really wanted to, you could service the thing. But with the effort it would take - not sure it would be worth it.

Should i take this one apart just so we can see? I can't . But if someone wants to donate me another aluminum matching throttle body, I'll gladly take it the extra mile. And even figure out a home shop remedy for the repeening of the screws...

Getting back to reality...

So here is the thing. We go through all this effort to make and retain vacuum pressure, and then you have these plenums that rotate on what is effectively a very loose fitting bearing....that leaks vacuum. So I'm thinking. One, maybe we don't need that much vacuum, so the pressure is high enough where the little leakage doesn't matter? Or two, figure out a way to press into that space, a highly viscous grease that will help retain the vacuum.

Next up will be further disassembly and more decisions to be made about how to refinish all these bits.

Pete- just pm'd you back re the pedal box.

Thanks for the tip on the peening. I've been reading carb rebuild threads. So I'll have to figure this out. Most guys support the back side of the flap shaft and tap it with a pinch...

On this throttle body, you can't get to the back of the flap shafts on anything but the resonance valve and on that flap, the flap is on an angle to the body. So no way to easily support.

Porsche - judging by the indentation on the front side of the screw, uses a pinch plier somehow to press the peen into the back of the screw.

Regardless. I'm going to go ahead and remove them. I'm very curious about the bearing surface and I'm wondering if there is an o-ring in there. Which would be serendipitous cuz i found a shop with something like 50,000 o-rings in stock tonight. Was perusing their catalog for a little light reading...

Reading a bit more- finding lots of guys needing m4x.75 Pan heads for throttle bodies- and they are not finding them. Wonder if ours are the same size. Guess I'll find out!

One of the biggest problems with "reading" the interwebs as opposed to just looking at instapics and tapping heart icons...

Is that one finds himself reading comments like the following:

"Dude, make sure you get a set of JIS screw drivers, and not a crappy set. Otherwise you'll totally strip the MFI screwheads. There not like normal like screw heads cz there like japanese and they like don't make them like us"

So i start thinking as follows:

"Like, do the Germans like totally like make their own like version of the Philips like head that like I've known since my childhood to not be like the same from screw to screw cuz like they just aren't?"

So has anyone here read the Wikipedia page on screw heads?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives

My wife asked me something and i answered "wait, I'm reading about screw heads" - she rolled her eyes and walked away in wifely disappointment, but likely proud of how incredibly manly it is to even care about a screw type. ---we NEED this information---

Then my daughter asked me something, and i said "wait, I'm reading about screw heads"
And she responded "oh cool." ---but in a genuine and kind of interested way...
She's getting there...almost fully trained. I'll have her rebuilding a 912 motor by her 14th birthday...it's coming...i can feel it.

Anyway, read the screw head article. And as a base suggestion, if you have low quality screw drivers - particularly Phillips- toss the very low quality drivers, and put the mid quality in a drawer in the house to be used only on wood screws and super low torque applications.
In your garage, spend on screw drivers. Find a very good quality set and kept those around. When you knacker the head, replace it.

And if you need some advice for cost/quality of various brands- there are some great threads on garage journal. My default for high quality has always been snapon. But there are many others and some very good screw driver options from brands I've not heard of (but now own due to the tool box purchases I've made over the last few years)

And now i have to go downstairs and look closely at the heads of the screws in my throttle body and determine if i have anything that fits well enough to make the attempt to break them loose. I'm going on the assumption that since they are designed to be peened in place, that the metal used is very soft. And therefore, having been on there for 30 years, in all likelihood the initial torque to break them loose, could strip or destroy the head. So the proper size and type of screw driver head is important.

But dude like i don't like think like franz turned to fritz and said like ferry told us to like use like Japanese industrial standard like screws dude.

But maybe Butzi designed his own? Nah, doubtful. In 1991 butzi's company was too busy winning the Compasso d'Oro for the Jazz Lamp

https://www.studiofaporsche.com/en/w...ble-light-jazz

If you take those screws out make sure to scribe a line on the butter fly so when you reinstall you center the plate back where it is. also your throttle body you have right now on your motor is aluminum also with just one big butterfly for better flow and better volume.

Resonance flap
 

Screw drivers
 

Yeah. I know the butterfly is bigger on the newer intake. I'm not convinced it's better. We will see.

I swapped out the manifold with the broken tab (back end holder for the air box). I had to make a little bracket to use temporarily until i have that piece welded at some point

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That'll work for a while. The only thing it really does is keep the airbox from swinging around and pulling the afm out of the bellows...

Onward to cleaning mine- i broke out the really stinky stuff for this one. Wd40 and Dawn work well, but not as quick and east. The stinky stuff works immediately. But i am now stoned. So is that an upside or downside?...

Fwiw- i found the screw heads in the throttle body respond well to a PH2 Phillips. Though I'm not sure if that's the absolute correct driver. But, they broke loose easily. I have not removed them. That's for "next up" once i figure out how to organize my mess on the bench. I need to figure out how to stay methodical here. There is a lot to buy, a lot to salvage and a lot to explore. And not a huge amount of time or money. So there will be pauses ahead and after coming back from a pause is when you always have the "now where did this spring go?" "What's this screw for?"

Amen.

It's funny...on 964 that are always worked on. You really only need a set of 1/4 inch drive metric six point sockets and some extensions, a ratchet and a little 1/4 drive breaker- for almost everything.

And then obviously for the big stuff, ok...but i find that with my car, i used to always go to the 3/8 or the 1/2 drawers. But now I'm almost always in the 1/4 drive drawer.

Ok- first up. My replacement vacuum check valve arrived...

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And on it went. Literally takes a few seconds....

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Drive report - yes, much of what has caused me to head down the road I'm on with this thread, is now taken care of. Resonance flap functions and the car is significantly zippier at wide open throttle. Duh. 19 dollar part.

I think i said up above- it's made by pierburg and you can buy one on amazon for 19 and free shipping through prime- that's the cheapest i found, but did not yet check with sunset. On amazon it's listed as a Volvo part. I'm wondering if these fail so easily due to the gasoline fumes that are in the throttle body. But that's just a wonder. It doesn't seem to be engineered to handle chemicals.

So that's good. On to the fun stuff...

Now- i have been sitting here at night fretting over the removal of things i shouldn't remove. But I'm curious. And I've been shoved into going down the rabbit hole -and to take this thing to the end.

So I've been fully expecting that - since it seems relatively normal to do this- that there would be a seal, some kind of an o-ring in the bushings for the resonance flap (and for the plenums as well). Because, as we know, vacuum in these cars is important , and vacuum leaks cause all kinds of strangeness. So it stands to reason there would be some way this bushing was designed to hold vacuum.

In fact- i was told by the experts- when my motor had a vacuum leak in that bushing , that my throttlebody needed to be replaced, because it's not serviceable and the only way to fix that vac leak was to buy new.

And - I've heard this from others and even read this on rennlist.

So down the hole we go...

Peened ends, do they need to be filed or ground down? No. Just back them out...

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And then take out this e-clip...

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And slide it out from this end...

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And here you go. These are all the parts.

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Now what's left in the holes? There is no o-ring. No seal. It's a needle bearing on both sides.

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So that begs the question. How does it seal?

Well there are two little flat washers on the outside that rest on either side of the shaft. So I'm going to surmise that between the fact that there should be grease in the bearing, and then you have these flat flush washers, that under vacuum, they seal up well enough.

Now. How is this not serviceable? If the bearing is good, you pack it with grease. Service done. Of the bearing is bad. Removing this bearing will be an absolute bear. The hole it sits in doesn't go all the way through. So it's pressed into a stop. And there is no way to grip it to pull it out. So good luck if you ever want to attempt that. Maybe a lot of heat around the outside and it'll loosen up enough. But holy hell.

Thankfully, i have no intention of bothering and no need to, since my bearings are fine. So I'll support them while i take apart the rest of the throttle body and prep for paint, and then repack them on reassembly. And it should be good as new.

Now - all that said, I've only just looked at it. it is possible there is some kind of a sealing ring back there behind the bearing that I'm not seeing yet. But i think we are good to go. Cuz I'm still not taking apart this bearing.

Anyone have any thoughts or light to shed?

trying to find the Pierburg vaslve on Amazon and it doesnt come up using the 7.05817.10.0 number, any help here?

Volvo Air Pump Solenoid Check Valve Brand New OEM PIERBURG

Sorry says not eligible for prime. But it was free shipping..so all good.

Black side goes to the hose coming from the throttle body. White side is in the loop for the vac canister and the resonance flap controller.

But- you can check yours easily. Take it out and blow through the white side. It should flow freely. Flip it and blow through the black side. Should not flow. That's all it does. So if yours functions, no need to replace. If not...replace.

Thanks!

Good read- interesting that he found a seal in his. That's what i had expected. But i see nothing in mine. Maybe they are just so deteriorated they are gone?

Idk. Gotta find out now.

Well maybe I'll send this throttle body to you for the first trial run. Better it explode in your car than in mine...lol...cuz it's your fault.

Thanks for the leads. This is interesting.

https://www.ntnglobal.com/en/product...73_en_P076.pdf

Interesting. And when you look at the cross section. You'll see the seals. I actually have a source for those seals. I'm curious if the design of the needle bearings in the one on my bench matches this.

Ok- so before we begin...

Guess what arrived?

Stainless e-clips...

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So I test fit one...

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And good to go!

So if anyone else wants one - pm me. It's 35 dollars each. Happy to make them available. I can be super disorganized via pm, and email, so stay on me if i don't respond. But so long as it's not 1000 people pm'ing we should be good...

INA E-205846 could be an F, but i think it's an E

And on that note...

I went in and poked around, and sure enough, there is a lipped seal at the bottom of the bearing. Which is good and bad. Good cuz there is a seal and it now all makes sense. Bad because it's not a simple 10mm id by 2mm wide viton o-ring, though that would work in its place.

Attachment 1285560

Attachment 1285557

Attachment 1285558

Attachment 1285559

Thanks for the push Pete!

Now off to find the replacements. In the meantime I'm going to continue disassembly so i can get to the others.

This is good.

I have a seal source. The seals are in an envelope and will be mailed to him tomorrow. I'll know in a week if i can get the exact seal. If not I'll get something better...lol.

I'm thinking these seals were never meant to encounter ethanol. So maybe they break down so much due to the vapors. Regardless materials have come a long way since then, so if there is an upgrade, why not.

I can see how the 928 guys used orings and got away with it- the spring on the main plenum is very heavy. But the movement on the resonance flap is very light and the return spring is very light, so if possible i want to get as close to oem as i can...cuz that's the right way round.

I'll likely buy a bunch of these seals...to have on hand. So if i do, and you all want some. I'll make some kits up.

Keep in mind I'm doing the same with a plastic throttle body when I'm done here. (Aluminum for the main part but plastic around the res flap.)

But. Jumping the gun. I still need to finish the disassembly. And i have a lot of stuff going on...sooooo we are all going to have to wait.

If anyone has an intake lying around and want to jump in...feel free. Thread is open. Aka it's not just me here...even if I'm the only one nutty enough to spend all my time and money on a basically fruitless venture "just to see".

:)

So about all the oily mess inside all the intake components...

When I had my 1989 C4 an un-named party might have added an extra quart (or two) of oil after a change, and then went for a spiried drive. The result was a complete oiling of the intake (and everything else).

Yep that's what happens . If you don't want to super clean the whole thing...at minimum you can pull the manifolds and wipe it out. Blowing seafoam through the intake or vac system can help clean it as well.

Or. Just lots of wide open throttle driving. But to help the injectors after they get gummed up. Techron or seafoam in the gas can help as well.

Early and Late versions

...

Was the it leaking from this spot when you pressurized the intake to 7 psi?

I never pressurized this one. I had a leak in mine years ago, but we replaced it with new, cuz everyone says these are not serviceable. This one was clearly loose and not sealed though...which for age and mileage should be normal.

Your part shows this.

https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...ins-photo3.jpg

Mine is missing the fitting around the shaft attached to the spring. I just wondered what it was.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...3e5593dea3.jpg

Ah- i see it. That's the cruise control...

That explains it. My car has no cruise control, thank you for your patience.

Seals were shipped off to my seal guy today. I'll discuss that w him next week.

I'm also putting together a seal kit for the diff locks, and next up I'll be putting together a seal kit for the clutch slave btw...so those will be available.

And...i have a pdas solendoid on my bench that I'll be taking apart. And if that can be serviced - I'll make up a kit for that, and then on to the abs pump. Those are the ideas. I don't like not having these things around. So we may as well all benefit from my rather insane needs to make these cars inexpensive to own.

But, since i now have to wait, i haven't gone any further yet in disassembly - i only have short bursts at the moment...so on to the fun stuff...

I love when "the right tool for the job" shows up. I think i only do this to fill my tool boxes. Someday I'll do a thread on those as well. I have a 1948 snapon box set in my basement - the indoor shop, that needs to be restored/conserved and upgraded a bit with some liner. That space used to be for vintage bicycle restoration, and now it's just a ton of bikes, and a bench with a mess of an intake on it...so let's get moving!

You all remember my failed hose wrap- so the main thing there was trying to cut the Kevlar. My heavy duty kitchen shears were no match for the bullet proof craziness of the Kevlar....so, right tool for the job?

Kretzer 10" shears

Attachment 1285624

It took five mins plus to cut through the Kevlar with the others...

Attachment 1285622

With these, it was like cutting paper...

Attachment 1285623



Make
Awesome
Happen

To those of you that wanted a wot switch thingy...

First - they are going out tomorrow.

Second - what the hell is it really called?

Attachment 1285626

I did some more disassembly tonight.

I'm going to spare you the step by step, and just post the pics. So if you need explanation, chime in. I'm considering biting the bullet and removing the bearings, but I'm going to wait until i talk to my seal guy and then make a determination. The slide hammer set i would need is 100 dollars. And then the bearing cost would be x...so I'd be increasing my cost by a couple hundred dollars. And if i can just reseal them, likely a better choice since the bearings themselves are fine.

Here we go...

Attachment 1285681

Attachment 1285676

Attachment 1285678

Attachment 1285680

Attachment 1285677

Attachment 1285679

Attachment 1285682

Attachment 1285683

Attachment 1285684

Attachment 1285685

And then...

Attachment 1285693

Attachment 1285690

Attachment 1285691

Attachment 1285688

Attachment 1285692

Attachment 1285689

Attachment 1285695

Attachment 1285694

Attachment 1285697

Attachment 1285696

And then...

Attachment 1285699

Attachment 1285700

Attachment 1285703

Attachment 1285702

Attachment 1285701

Attachment 1285698

Attachment 1285704

And that's it for now. I'm on the fence about new bearings or reuse these. Lots more to do regardless and decisions to be made. The zinc is corroded, and I'm thinking to paint those. Not sure yet. I could send them out for plating, but plating may not be as good as paint in the end.

On to hoses for a bit. Still waiting for the shrink tubes.

The seal is square and has a lip on the inside... i know the seal, just need to nail down the size and material.

The larger has a 10mm ID and the smaller has an 8mm ID

The thing about pulling the bearings, is that i hate when i can't do something- so it makes me want to go ahead and go all the way...lol.

But there are two truisms in life one should live by-

1. You can't have everything you want
2. You can't dance with all the girls

So for now, I'll stay on the seal track. And if i decide to dance with another girl...well, she'll have to wait while i attempt to have everything i want.

I have a set of small slide hammer bearing pullers I'll let you use. If you don't want to buy them for this one time use just let me know I'll bring them to you. It's a good snap on set I think I paid 450 for it.

Awesome. Let's see what the seal guy comes up with...and then if i decide to pull the bearings I'll give you a shout. Thanks!

I have even a better way to remove the bearings so you don't hurt them. you get a washer or a small socket that will push on the outer race and a bigger socket on the other side the bearing will fit in then you put a bolt through the sockets and tighten the bearing comes right out with no damage and you reinstall the same way. works really good.

The bearing fits into a a lot that is the width of the bearing on one side and the width of the id of the bearing on the other. So there is no way to get to the backside of the bearing.

So the only way is the expansion fitting on the end of a slide hammer...

Heat the throttle body, insert the expansion end of the slide hammer, add a little more heat and bang bang bang...

Did a little cleaning today...

This is just a first pass. Porsche leaves these rough on the inside, which is fine. But the issue is that lots of gunk catches and builds up on the ridges and we don't want that...so I'm sanding, honing, and later polishing a bit. I won't go crazy, but it'll be more well finished.

Attachment 1285813

Attachment 1285811

Attachment 1285812

Still waiting on some other things to arrive. So in the meantime, i have to hone out the manifolds, and continue with this throttle body.

Progress on the hoses...
I haven't received my shrink tubes for the ends yet, but that's what you get for buying through anyone else but amazon these days. So of course, i went on amazon and bought some double walled 3:1 black adhesive lined shrink tube to use as a backup. That way, tomorrow, my original order will arrive.

Keep in mind this is all an experiment, I've never used any kind of liner like this...so I'm learning as i go. Some of these will be better than others, and I'm sure that by the end, the last ones will look pretty good. (These already look good)...

But- practice makes perfect.

Reality is, most of these lines will never show.

Attachment 1285899

Attachment 1285900

Attachment 1285901

Attachment 1285898

Slow moving over here. One thing at a time. Baby is due in a couple weeks and i have work stuff, exams etc happening all at once...sooooo
One thing at a time.

3:1 dual wall adhesive lined shrink tubing arrived today. So i banged out the remainder of the work on a few of these hoses. Have a few hoses i haven't even started yet, and I'm trying to find the right 4mm id hoses to replace the hardlines. Everything i have experimented with is too soft.

But I'm getting better at the Kevlar wrap. Next up is to figure out how to keep them clean- or cleanable...

Attachment 1286035

Attachment 1286034

Attachment 1286033

Attachment 1286036

I think it's possible this intake might actually be installed in my car by the time the baby is old enough to take a ride!

Absolutely loving your work and attention to detail. I'm tackling this job come the New Zealand summer and this will go a long way to helping me.
Would you mind sharing details on sourcing the kevlar wrap and the sizes you used?

Regards and thanks,

Neil

I tried to give the Kevlar sale to a seller in upstate New York. They didn't have time for me, and when i called them, they said "your order is small so it's under review". - even though they said on their website they sell by the foot for the product i wanted. I told them to double the order of need be, just tell me how much i need to buy. Since i knew i was going to buy ALOT more. They said they had to leave for an office party (it was 2pm mid week), and they would get back to me. They didn't.

So it was back to amazon.


I'd love to give my business to local businesses, but it's impossible when they don't want to do business. I never tell anyone they aren't enough for me...i just help them as i can, and later if they get bigger and want more, or if i can help more,i just do it...what's wrong with this world.

For those of you not from the north east of the US- businesses here are failing and suffering...and it's impossible to find an American that just wants to work- though they all say they want to work- but then they bitch when they are at work, and don't like doing their job...ugh.

The product that i ordered is exactly the same product they didn't want to sell me, using the same picture on their website as the picture on amazon. It's a thin wall Kevlar. I've found that if i tuck the end of the Kevlar roll into the end of the hose, and then run the Kevlar over the hose it creates a double layer and it's way easier to install and looks much better.

When i get the process down and the sealing of the Kevlar figured out (allowing the hose to still be flexible) - I'll write something up on the process.

Stainless and plastic braids are WAY easier btw...

But - alas - they aren't as cool, aren't as fire proof and are definitely not....bullet proof..lol

Yu know, because when people in my neighborhood are randomly shooting off a few rounds, my vac hoses will be just fine...

:)

Fwiw- the shrink tubing that i ordered from a shop in Florida - weeks ago, shipped today. And i ordered the same shrink tube a couple days ago from....amazon...and it arrived today. Again. Same deal. I called - ohhhh yeah. We are getting to that. Forgot. Sorry , yeah, I'll get that out ASAP...la la la...

So- for anyone out there that wants to compete you'd better either have a much better product that only you have, or you'd better step up the game and make your customer feel like there is a reason to call you first...aka...make at least the impression that you care. Or....we will be stuck with a few basic products on...amazon.

Thank god for rennline, pelican, sunset, and a few others....should have said sunset first there...cuz those guys, particularly when bob was still on the other side of the phone, set the bar. "Hey bob, i have a 91 964 and i need this totally obscure part"....answer..."oh yeah that one was 964.654.676.87, but they've replaced that 8 Times and now it's 999.876.78.01 - need anything else? Oh no, i don't look at the parts catalog anymore - i have it memorized - for all the cars"

Thanks bob.

Should have bought it in black ;-)

Well yes. But that would have been too easy. Gotta love a challenge

Spoke with the seal guy today.

Good news and bad news.
First- the bad news. The seals are expensive. If i were buying thousands, they wouldn't be, but for just a few seals, it's too high. I am buying 2 at the moment, i think, just to try it. But in the end, i think the cost of new bearings will end up similar, and I'll get a new tool out of the deal...soooo....being a tool junky, i May go this direction.

The good news? I now will have sets of diff lock seals so we have a source closer to home. I'll post more about those once I've installed them on a test car and know we are good to go first hand.



Next up will maybe be clutch slave seals. Cuz why not save a few bucks there too?

The bearing sizes are:

Larger flaps
Hk 1012 2rs (just rs if you want a single lip seal)

Little flap
Hk 0810 2rs (just rs for single seal)

I'm going with double seals

Seems bearing naming standards have changed since 1991. Who knew?

Now on to pulling them. The bearings cost less per bearing than resealing them.

Can those of you that ordered an aluminum wot dingle pm me and let me know how they arrive. Val's was torn open twice...so i may need to adjust the ship method...seems paper tears...whodathunk...

I know it's not the most professional presentation - but if it makes it to the car, we are good!

Attachment 1286117

Got mine, thak you. Now to test the one way air valve...

Did a little work today. I'm exhausted, so don't have it in me to do anything more...

Here are a couple shots of what the insides of the intake manifolds look like after cleaning.

Attachment 1286209

Attachment 1286208

Attachment 1286210

When you take the manifolds out, there is typically a crap ton of gritty oily baked on gunk all over this area. Assuming the ridges offer plenty of bite for this stuff to begin to stick, I'm sanding and honing these smooth.

Here's a couple after shots. I've only been working on one manifold. The other side will come later as i find time. This isn't a quick job. Likely because i lack the right tools to do it quickly...

Attachment 1286211

Attachment 1286212

Once i get to the end with these, they are getting ceramic coated inside and out. So nothing will stock to them. And they will stay nice and clean.

Then, i took a rotary sanding disk and a drill and began a rough first pass on the top...

Attachment 1286213

Attachment 1286214

Looks terrible...but it's a rough first pass...don't worry...it'll come together. Haven't fully settled on how i plan to finish them yet. But getting there.

Have i mentioned yet that SKF double sealed bearings have been ordered for the throttle body?

Hk 1012 2rs - 4 of these
Hk 0812 2rs - 2 of these

I've now read every carburetor and throttle body rebuild thread there is on the interwebs and have found that as much as I'd like to not buy a special slide hammer just for 6 bearings...that really it's the right and only way.

If you shove an expansion bolt into the needle bearing and use enough pressure to grip the bearings, you risk pressing the needles into the aluminum hole on the throttle body and dimpling the inside of the hole. So that's a no-go...
Correct tool it will have to be.

Back to hoses and lines. I've been testing the other vac valves in the system - since they are languishing on the bench. They all seem to work well enough. So i may or may not replace them. Not sure how freely they need to breath. But they hold vacuum for sure.

This is the gunk...

Attachment 1286220

So if you missed it...trying to make this not happen in the future.

Someday we will figure out how to not get oil in the intake as well...I'm not convinced it's just from over filling. I'd also like to know why after driving the car, the oil would still be in there. You can take the right hand manifold out---look in the bottom cross tube of the throttle body, you'll see a pool of oil. Reassemble, drive the car, take the manifold out again, and you'll still see the oil. So what gives. Must study this at some point. Wish i could simulate the situation on an engine dyno...

Or i could just be wrong. And that check valve that rothsport sells covers the problem.
Has anyone installed one and looked to see if it resolves the oil in the intake problem?

Without a PCV I am surprised it's not worse.

these are like the inside bearing pullers I have. If you want to use them let me know site didn't load

Thanks- i bought a set tonight. Walmart has a sale for the kit- 30 dollars...ask and ye shall receive!

There is a thread somewhere about adding a pcv to the 964 motor. Apparently it adds a ton of hp. I'll have to look into that at some point.

Right now I'm searching for 4mm id vacuum hose that's harder and stiffer than the various hoses i have. Porsche uses a plastic hard line for a reason. I'd like to replace that with something more like a brake line, but am having difficulty finding what I'm looking for.

It has to be 5/32 or 4mm id- and not silicone. Looking for something hard, non-collapsible and ok with gasoline, chemicals, etc.

I think its mostly piston blowby and is more problematic on the MY89-90? Porsche modified the piston ring grooves multiple times during production but never got it 100% correct and it just gets worse with age.

Here's the Porsche Motorsports version of the 5HP one-way crankcase valve that won't prevent oil misting:

https://members.rennlist.com/jandrea...ther-Front.jpg
https://members.rennlist.com/jandrea...nt-Closeup.jpg
https://members.rennlist.com/jandrea...ather-Rear.jpg
https://members.rennlist.com/jandrea...ar-Closeup.jpg

And here's the Robert Linton Version:

https://members.rennlist.com/jandrea...lve-1way-3.jpg
https://members.rennlist.com/jandrea...lve-1way-4.jpg


You also need to replace the RMS with the PTFE version that will hold a vacuum. Otherwise it whistles and allows air to bypass in the process, which prevents a vacuum from forming in the crankcase and no 5HP.

Next pass. Arms are tired. Coming along slowly.

Attachment 1286266

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This is getting painted in the end. But needs to be sanded and shaped prior. Almost there.

Then the real question. Do i add a logo? Do i use decales or a raised letter type thing? No decisions yet.

Honestly...without making any real changes to the entire motor and tuning it...there won't be any hp gain from the polishing .

If you make a motor breath in more air, all you do is make it more lean. Then if you add more fuel...and help it breath out better w exhaust...well, it's time to break out the computer and match all that stuff up!

So idk...I'm just goin on the assumption that it'll work "as best it can, given the design"

Outside that- i used to look at all the hoses and crap in there and shudder. I had no real clue how all this stuff functioned. Basic idea, sure....but each piece, and all the details - it's amazing how something that seemed so complicated yesterday is becoming so clear now.

I'm intrigued by the crank case breather up above. I have no intention of ventilating the case while I'm doing this, since repacking the rear main seal isn't going to happen just yet...but it has been on my mind for a while. So need to look further into that.

If you can/want, since you sanded down the intake plenums, I would suggest getting them powdercoated chrome or black chrome. It looks nothing like chrome plating rather a very nice OEM-ish silver. I did this to a fuel rail - on an Audi - and really liked how it turned out.

Mine arrived ok but the envelope had multiple tears. I would suggest using either a padded envelope or putting a 3x5 card stock on both sides of the cams to protect them

This is happening - and it's surely going to slow my progress on the intake...

Attachment 1286365

I think i figured out my vacuum hose conundrum. I'm going to use the oem hard lines, but sleeve them with rubber. And fuse the elbow ends on to the hose prior to Kevlar.

https://teespring.com/dbfd-baby?tsma...6408&sid=front

Fun stuff today. He will have to grow up quickly so he can give me a hand in the garage.

Congrats!!

Congratulations! First one? Life changer for sure.

Baby seat madness coming soon...lol

My first was a toddler when i got my car, so i have a toddler seat that's getting upholstered tk match the interior...

But i need to find a newborn seat that fits the rear seats.

Wow, great news...
Take your space!
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/FL...M=w696-h927-no

Venturi question -

Is this part:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...913c1ca836.jpg

The same as this part?

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...0379e87457.jpg

And this is me working out how many of each clamp to buy

I went with ideal tridon stainless steal lined 65e clamps for the things that needed to be replaced. And stainless lined high pressure oetiker clamps for the stuff that won't need to be pulled apart again.

I bought the oetiker clamps at belmetric.com and the ideal tridon clamps at kscdirect.com

It's getting fun now. The gathering stage. It's also becoming a very scattered project. I'm not being very organized. But it'll pull together.

These are my oh-so-neat-and-tidy notes on the lines as i went about ordering clamps. Note that my lines are now sleeved with Kevlar and the ends are dual wall adhesive lined shrink wrap. So the oem sizes no longer apply.

Attachment 1286663

The bearings came for the throttle body. The puller arrives tomorrow. So that is up next i think. Although i kinda need to finish all the stuff that would cause me to use any chemicals on the body. So maybe I'll pull the bearings, finished sanding polishing and prepping and press the new bearings in after it's all done.

And in preparation for the new oetiker clamps...i had a cheep set of oetiker pliers. But I've never been happy with them. I think i forwent paying the extra 20 dollars on the better set at the time...but seriously, pay up for the better pliers...there is nothing worse than bad tools. Bad tools are ok for around the house- sometimes...but not for real work.

Attachment 1286667

Attachment 1286668

I know. It's just an oetiker clamp. So as long as it gets pinched, it's fine...but these are just awesome...

Fwiw- these two parts are not the same. One has a check valve - the black one - and the other is simply a Venturi- and it's WAY TOO EXPENSIVE.

So I'm looking for another source.

Update.
Porsche part is 100 dollars. But if you look for the same part number or the replacement updated part number, since it's a vw/audi part, you can find it for 20 dollars. Love it.

Attachment 1286697

Hey don't seem to have a tendency to break. It has no internals as far as i can see. But they sometimes crack and then you have a vacuum leak. So inspect yours for cracks if you have it out...may as well.

The bearing puller kit came today.

Attachment 1286714

So even though it was my turn w the baby...

Attachment 1286717

He's a Porsche guy...so he fully understands...

So i grabbed the throttle body and stuck the 8mm blind hole puller inside and gave it a shot

Attachment 1286716

Attachment 1286715

No dice. Wasn't going to budge. Not with the puller and not with the slide hammer. So next up is add heat. I'll heat the aluminum around the bearing and hopefully that will give it enough room to break loose. But that won't be today, unfortunately...you'll have to wait.

Well so the wait is over. I couldn't wait.
I had been trying earlier to pull the smaller bearings with the 8mm ID. And they weren't budging - so i hit that area with heat. And got the aluminum nice and hot with a torch. And then gave it another shot with the puller - nothing. Slipped right out, again.
So i gave it a shot with the slide hammer. Nothing - popped right out.

Frustration.

So i decided to give the larger bearings a go.

Here are the tool ends for the 8mm ID and the 10mm ID

Attachment 1286749

You notice the 10mm is significantly more robust. It became apparent that the tool itself was flexing inside the 8mm hole. More on that later.

Here we go for the big ones:

Attachment 1286751

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Attachment 1286753

So that went well!
Feeling a bit less frustrated, i had to figure something out for the little guys cuz that tool wasn't having any of it. So i found a mini screw driver set with mini Philips bits and thought to install the tool, wedge the mini screw driver bit in from the other side and tap it out with a hammer from the other side...this pressed the tool at the end where it was trying to hold...and kept it from slipping...

Attachment 1286757

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Attachment 1286756


Success! Got them all out w no problems once i figured that out.

Attachment 1

Attachment 1286758

And that's it for today. Didn't do much else, though i did get a chance to wash my car and go for a drive. Hadn't driven it in a week. Felt great!

Pete- if you box yours up- you can't drive your car!...

That's kind the problem with this type of project, you gotta kinda do it on another intake and then install after it's all done...

So I've not been able to do any work. Of any kind...but i have been gathering. Bought some high temp primer, some paint, some stainless oetiker clamps, etc...

And while i was at it, and since fuel lines kind of go with the whole intake thing...as most of the lines that i am working on are fuel related...and also since if you happen to take your intake out to do some refurb or cleaning....you end up with the perfect opportunity to deal with most, if not all, of your fuel lines. Fuel lines, in your 30 year old car, if they haven't been done, are a fire waiting to happen. And judging from the 10 or so 911 fires I've seen in the past ten years, likelihood's are high...so get them done. Or get to them. Particularly the one NoOne changes, which is the one that runs from the trunk to the fuel pump. Has a little bitty five inch soft line after a long length of hardline to the pump. That little bugger is the only one not done in my car, and I'm bummed i didn't make it a point when the motor was out, cuz duhhhhhh, the motor was out! Easy access.

Anyway. I am fire paranoid, but I'm also crazy about certain other things, like having no passenger foot well area due to a hulking fire extinguisher. Or just the thought of having a big dumb industrial looking fire extinguisher in my interior. It's not a race car - but...

We all need a fire extinguisher. So what where and how? There are many ways. And honestly, throw a 20 dollar cheepie in the frunk if you don't want to really spend. Just have one.

And back to me. I'm great at telling all the dbfd guys "you gotta do this, and you gotta do that", but here i am 10 years later still with no fire extinguisher. Like a dummy. All that money spent and how many times did i say "i can't afford it" when it came to 100 dollars - or 200 for a fire extinguisher (the cool one). Again. 20 bucks and you have one. It'll leave all kinds of residue, but at least you will have one.

And then...i came across this:

Attachment 1286943

Attachment 1286942

It's a little more than a foot long. Once you start it - it has 50 seconds. And it'll fit up under the dash. Or in the pouch in the frunk.

So until i bite the bullet on the super uber chrome thing with the cnc billet majiggy with the one handed latch release that is so well designed that the very act of holding it puts out fires...this Element extinguisher is just what the doctor ordered. And it doesn't cost all that much.




Oh. And one more thing....

If you don't have a fire extinguisher- and you haven't replaced your fuel lines. Your car will become a fireball. It's just a matter of time.

So get on it. And make sure you aren't under insured. Uhmmmmmm, once again, like me. But I'll get into my lack of insurance coverage at a later date. I'm feeling stupid enough for admitting I've been driving my car for 10 years with no way to put out an engine fire.

Two more hoses done. These are the hard ones due to the radii...but i think I'm getting this down. Not 100% perfect, but eh...in another 20 years...I'll redo them.

Attachment 1287041

Attachment 1287042

Attachment 1287043

Next up, which should have been first up, is the soften the runner on the inside of the holes. And then to figure out some way to seal the fabric so they either stay clean, or stay cleanable, or both.

Then, i start prepping the throttle body and little parts for paint. And then hopefully on to sanding and polishing and painting the manifolds...and then...on and on...it's a bit of a bigger project than i had anticipated...

But- everything i do ends up being a bigger project than anticipated.

So the plated parts had a little crusty white stuff on them. Not really rust, but a little crust. So i took some CLR and a paint brush and dusted them off. The crusty and the yellow chromate both came right off. So now i have zinc, but no chromate.

Attachment 1287147

Attachment 1287148

So I've not done this before, but looking at the process to do the plating, the chromate step seems to be to just dunk the zinc plated part into the chromate solution and out it comes yellow.

I wonder if since the zinc is still there, if i can just dunk this into the same solution and re-chromate?
It obviously wouldn't look as shiny and perfect as new, but wouldn't it just give a bit of protection and be done?

A little side track, some fun stuff arrived today.

Diff lock seals!

Attachment 1287466

Attachment 1287468

Attachment 1287467

When i was looking into the bearing seals, i decided to get off my butt and have sets of these made up at the same time. I've been meaning to do it forever. I didn't make many, just 20 sets, so essentially 10 C4's since there are two lock slaves per. But, over the years I've found that every C4 that's passed through my hands has needed them. So now we have them. Done.

Once i have done an install and trial run to make sure they work as they should, I'll be happy to sell them. I can make more if i run out. They aren't cheep, but much better than buying a new diff lock which comes at a ridiculous price.
And the reseal job is super easy.

You are doing the Lord's work. Awesome thread.

Would like an aluminum thinga-ma-jiggy if any are left :)

I have many. Send me a pm and we will work it out and I'll mail one to you.

I'm now debating whether to sell them on eBay or amazon. Cuz i have the diff lock seals and the Uber awesome but hard to mount idler wheel for the belt tension sensor.

So maybe I'll make a dbfd store and just focus exclusively on stuff that we all need.

Sounds like a good idea to me...right?

Awesome idea! A handful resourceful Rennlisters like yourself have done the hard yards in sourcing and collating hard to find and previously unavailable parts for these older cars. Tearing down and refurbishing what most of us would just replace. It makes my job of DIY that much easier so I'm happy to support it!

Nel

Ok so i have a few things to add tonight. One is a little bone to pick...but I'll get there in a moment after i finish expounding about making awesome happen. You may notice along the way that I'm actually in a good mood. I got an hour of time to work on the throttle body and it's put me in a good mood. Later when i explain about the other thing...my mood will temporarily change as i explain, and then i will subsequently let it go and forget that I'm pissed about it and move right along...

Back to the days activities...

I finally got to spend some time finishing the internals on the throttle body. I left the lower tube alone, since it's sole purpose is to regulate pressure between the sides. There is no high speed airflow through that section. It holds only the resonance flap, and when that's open, there is a huge volume of open space shared by both sides of the intake. That's all.

Someone else can chime in with a more professional and informed idea of what that all does. But for all intents and purposes, there is no reason to make that tube smooth inside. And since it's carefully machined where the flap closes, i left it alone.

That said - take a look at the difference. The upper tube where there is a high flow of air, in stock form, is equally as rough a casting as the lower. Here is a before and after:

Attachment 1287672

Nice and smooth. All of this is going to be ceramic coated so nothing will stick to it btw...can't remember if i told you all that yet.

This is the state of the body at the moment:

Attachment 1287673

Super clean inside. Not perfect. Just a lot better than it was. I don't want to reinvent the wheel, nor do i want to mess anything up. Soooo minimal intervention.

Next up is a little wire brushing on the outside, then mask it all off and prime. Then i have to figure out what I'm doing for paint. I may just do all silver. Just haven't decided- seems sooooo boring.

Now. On to rehashing my picking bone...

I bought new intake seals- the big ones...cuz as you may remember from the beginning - the ones that were on the intake were terrible. The corrosion has eaten into the rubber, and they were hard. So i figured rather than polishing a turd...they aren't expensive. So buy new.

Well turned out they weren't currently in stock, so they were ordered from Germany and came from Porsche directly.

HARD AS ROCKS.

Well...not as rocks...but definitely have been sitting on their shelf for 30 years.

Attachment 1287682

Attachment 1287684

Attachment 1287683

Which adds time and expense to my project. Thankfully a bunch of you guys have bought wot switch arms - the dodad - and that has offset a little of the cost of this project (very expensive)....so i thank you all for that and hope that little dodad does you well.

Anyway- the good news, now that the bone has been picked- is that i now get to buy some wintergreen oil and alcohol and show you all how to soften old rubber and save old parts from the scrap heap...which will be fun!




(If you notice there in the background, the yellow chromate solution arrived as well. But that i will get to another day all together- and really only if it works, lol)

Fun day today.

Here's the first fun thing...

Before:

Attachment 1288413

Then i grabbed some CLR and a paint brush and took off the yellow and the crusty stuff. They aren't very oxidized, so the zinc underneath is still good. So therefore, reapplying the chromate should be fine, although not perfect. But if you are just looking for yellow and some protection...all good in the hood.

After the brushing with CLR:

Attachment 1288412

And then a few drops of chromate in a pint jar (talenti gelato)- and some hottish water. One minute swishing around in the solution, then dip in fresh water and blow with a hair dyer. Don't touch it with your hands for at least four hours after. Hang to dry. Let cure for a day or so.

Final product:

Attachment 1288414


So cool!

Make Awesome Happen

And then...i finally got a chance to prime and paint the throttle body. I'll spare you before pics since they have been posted so many times up above...but it's looking good. I went with a basic silver, using a high temp, chemically resistant caliper paint so over time, any cleaning chemicals are less likely to do anything to the paint...like when someone sprays brake cleaner in the engine bay...won't be me...but who knows who's going to be in there...

Attachment 1288419

Attachment 1288421

Attachment 1288422

Attachment 1288420

I have some more finish work to do, particularly around the areas where the seals are never going to seal - notice how corroded that area was. So those will become better. No need to go too far, but more smooth would not be out of the question.

Next up...gotta soften the rubber bits while this throttle body cures. You should always let enamel sit and harden before doing anything with it. And when you don't have an oven, it'll take two weeks or so to reach full hardness.

Patience is a virtue.

But i am itching to install bearings and get this thing together....more to come.

Last but not least....and this is the fun one, cuz now my entire house smells like a Wint-O-Green Lifesaver. And it's going to stay that way for a week.

So as i stated above, the seals came from Porsche and they are hard. Cuz they have likely sat on a shelf for 30 years. These things don't really go bad (they get hard and continually reused anyway) or get changed much, so I'm sure the entire stock of these in the world of Porsche parts shelves, are all old production at this point.

Anyway, wintergreen oil is Menthyl salicylate. And if you mix it 3 parts rubbing alcohol and 1 part Menthyl salicylate, you make a nice smelling rubber softener/renewer.

I've not done this before. Just seen it done. So you get to see my first ever attempt and trial run.

The one thing i get concerned about is expansion. But long and short- i can buy another set of seals if this doesn't work out.

First - the oil:

Attachment 1288449

When you go online, everyone says wintergreen oil is expensive. And that's true, if you are looking for essential oils and want to buy it at your local upscale apothecary. 4oz is around 20-30 dollars. Which is crazy, cuz you are going to have to make a big bucket for a lot of the larger parts. So out i went looking and found 16oz at Big Dee's tak and vet supply, for 12.95...now we are talkin...

Off to cvs for 32oz bottles of 91% isopropyl alchohol:

Attachment 1288452

I probably overpaid there. Penny wise, pound foolish?

Take care of the pence and the pounds will take care of themselves....

So a bottle and a half of that and the 16oz bottle of wintergreen oil, and you have it.

So i washed up the new rubber seals to take anything off them.

Attachment 1288450

Attachment 1288451

And tossed them in. I threw in a couple of other things as well. Just for good measure.

Attachment 1288448

In a week or so, out they come. I'll check on them every so often. But that should do it.

Side note, as an ode to Louis Carrol now that I'm thinking about it:

Take care of the sense, and the sounds will take care of themselves...

This is a lot of fun watching your progress, thanks for sharing. Did you happen to keep some other seals of the same sort out of the solution to compare how soft they get?

No. I just tossed them all in. The difference will be noticeable.

Update. I checked in on the rubber bits today. So they've effectively been in there for 24 hours.

Report: super soft. Amazing. Like new.

Downside- total fail.

They expanded ALOT.

Attachment 1288540

I took them out, washed them off. They feel fantastic. But they seemed....bigger. So i held them up against the manifold. Sure enough.

So who knows. Maybe as they settle down they will shrink. Maybe not. Next time maybe it'll be just a couple hours in the solution for parts that aren't super stiff. Anyway it's back to the drawing board.

I'll have to check who I just got them from. mine were nice and soft. I replaced all the rubber and fuel lines when I had the intake off this past spring. my old fuel lines I was thinking to replace the rubber with nylon fuel line for the alcohol in the fuel eats rubber. never crack again.

Yeah I'm replacing my fuel lines next time with a better quality line for current fuels. The govt should start allowing higher ethanol blends soon. And that's not only tragic from an ecological standpoint...but it's going to be hell for our cars.

I got all the rubber from gaduin Porsche in las vegas. they seem to have the best price. but that was for the plastic intake yours may be different.

I just noticed that I have made 3259 posts on rennlist. It's just.....madness...

That- and that my headlight lenses on my pic are wrong - I have different set of yellow lenses now. Bit more round than the 911 h4.

Nothing yet to report on the Intake - the seals were much smaller yesterday morning - I'll check again when I get a chance. I'm letting the enamel cure and harden on the throttle body before doing any more work. I need to sand and finish the area where the seals go, and then do some touch up. Then ceramic coat the entire thing, and begin reassembly.

Thinking to make a tool to pinch the Plenum flap screws. Or maybe I'll hammer on them, but that seems silly when one can make a tool to to what porsche did originally which seems to be saf

Btw- there is an oil and fuel line thread around here somewhere -and i can't seem to find it - so I'm going to post this here instead -

When I make my fuel and oil lines - I'll be using these -

http://50.62.235.225/files/ahosend.pdf

http://www.batinc.net/mocal.htm

metric to an fittings

Now to find a source for bulk hose of the right quality....for the lowest price.

There is no such thing as 'cost effective' AN fittings or hose, but I would think that Summit would have the best prices being bulk and all...I know they sell their own brand which ends up being cheaper than Earls/Aeroquip etc.

I am looking into bundy fittings, to see if it's cost effective as that is what a lot of OEM manufactures have been using.

I found using the AN hose assembly tool from www.koultools.com made the hose assembly a snap.

I'm not getting ahead of myself...but I'm ahead of myself.

Attachment 1288844

Attachment 1288843

The badge isn't attached yet. I need to figure out the best way to do that. Glue? Tape? Need to bond it, for all intents and purposes, permanently and whatever i use has to handle high summer engine bay heat, super low winter temps...down to -20 degrees since we have had those days here, and lots of rain and salt.

Thoughts?

Last thing i need is for a large semi sharp metal thing getting kicked into my belts or the fan.

On pot metal to aluminum?

I have one shot to get it right...

Engraving would be great. Not sure where to get that done. May have to look into that. I kinda like that idea better...

Would metalized two part epoxy putty work to attach the badge?

Neil

Big day so far today. I've had a few hours of "free time" and so i jumped on the throttle body...not litteraly...of course.

However. I was able to install the bearings. I used my handy dandy must have Wilton super vise. If you go looking for a good bench vise, these really cant be beat. If you are like me and don't want to pay up, you'll buy an old crappy one that someone wanted to throw away, and renovate it. These are so good that you can easily press bearings and bushings (small ones) with it. Zero play side to side. Super precise. Post-renovation....

Attachment 1289074

Attachment 1289075

And on to the pressing. Doing this with a bench vice in a messy basement with boxes and parts everywhere...not ideal. Needed a second set of hands...but got it done.

Attachment 1289076

Attachment 1289078

Attachment 1289079

Attachment 1289077

Attachment 1289080

Attachment 1289081

Attachment 1289085

Attachment 1289083

Attachment 1289082

Attachment 1289084

Attachment 1289086

And then...it was time to reassemble the do-hickies, thingamagiggers, and springs, seals, clips, etc...i haven't finished. But here's what's been done. I'm going to try to explain this but don't know if I'll be clear, so feel free to ask questions...

Attachment 1289091

This guy slips in. You have to be careful to not tear the seals in the bearings when this gets inserted. There are very fine lips on the seals, which is the failure point for the vacuum, btw...and the channels cut for the retainer clips can grab on those lips and you've got a problem.

Attachment 1289092

And in she went.

Next up is the tricky part. And the only part where you can get hurt. So be careful. I typically don't do anything with springs under tension. I don't like the idea of losing fingers, arms, or other appendages. However, these are relatively captive unless they break. And they are small enough where you are only going to lose an eye, but will likely retain fingers. So we are good to go...

Had one taken pictures prior to starting , one would have an idea of where the springs were attached. That said, the photos don't tell you how much spring windup there is. You will have had to have taken notes. Go back to the previous picture. The outer heavy looking spring goes around and snaps into place. Easy enough. The spring in the middle...the one that is the wide one with a lot of spring...that's your main throttle return spring. And if that's not wound properly, you will have a stuck throttle at some point. So that one needs to go around once until it hooks under tension...and then all the way around once more, so it's under A LOT more tension. Which is a real pain in the ass...

Anyone that has a better way to do this, please chime in. But in my case, what i did, was improvise a solution.

I have seal picks, that i used to hook onto the spring, but then you can't really wind the thing around and then under itself with a big tool, so. You need a way to hold it....

So out comes my favorite material, and how fitting for this project...Kevlar.

Attachment 1289093

And i made up a spring wind up tool w the Kevlar. This stuff comes in really handy when you need a thin thread that is virtually unbreakable.

Attachment 1289095

And then wound it around and hooked it to the spring...

Attachment 1289094

And then with my seal pick, i ran the spring around to the end, where the spring needs to go under the assembly, held it tight with the thread, and the was able to grab it again with the pick from underneath and pop...into place.

Attachment 1289096

I checked the tension against another throttle body that i have...and we are all good in the hood.

I then did the resonance flap assembly, and on to the plenum flaps...

First off...the flap slips into a slot on the shaft, and then secondly, you screw in the screws...and the trick here is two-fold. You want to get the screws in, tighten them up, loosen them, wiggle the flap into place, tighten again, etc, till you have it right. Then you want to pull one screw at a time, and give them some red lock tight. And then, since I'm paranoid, i don't want to rely on lock tight to hold these in, cuz if one comes out, there goes the motor. So later, I'll pinch them in the same way Porsche did at the factory. And there won't be any way for them to back out.

But first, should anyone decide to replace the screws. You'll need the right size. I had read an aweful lot of stuff in other forums that stated the thread size to be m4x0.75 and therefore impossible to find etc. not true on either count. First off, if you can't find an m4x0.75 screw, you are looking in the wrong place. But really, for our purposes...this is moot. Because our plenum flap screws are m4x0.7

Attachment 1289097

To illustrate...this is m4x0.75

Attachment 1289099

And this is m4x0.7

Attachment 1289098

Sorry for the blurr...doing this with my phone and limited time.

On to the resonance flap...

Attachment 1289100

Easy enough. Just make sure it seats well and is not sticky. And tighten it up.

I have not made the pinch tool yet for the screws. I wish someone sold one. And id just do that. But I'll have to be the maverick here and getterdunn...

That's it for today.

Many thanks to Pete for pushing me down the road of replacing the bearings. Important work and discovery....and wouldn't have been done without the push.

That said. I understand why no one does this. Unless you do it yourself, a shop would charge way way way too much to do this type of thing.

I guess maybe if it was just repacking the bearings it'd be ok. But this throttle body is now polished out, and entirely ceramic coated. You wouldn't believe how slippery it is in your hands. Nothing will stick to it. So the insides should stay clean, and the outside will repel dirt grime and water etc...which is fun.

I didn't do a post on the ceramic coating process...my apologies. I didn't even take any pics. It was all done in a clean environment with fresh clean gloves, fresh applicators, etc, and i didn't touch my phone or anything else.

Kevlar shears...

Attachment 1289105

But the string can be cut with regular scissors...just not as clean a cut.

Got back to it and put the plenum flaps in...

Here is where old pics come in handy. Cuz which way were they in???

Attachment 1289118

See the numbers? I would have never known...cuz the male now sense.

Attachment 1289122

And in they went:

Attachment 1289119

Attachment 1289121

Attachment 1289123

Attachment 1289120

Attachment 1289124

Attachment 1289125

Next up is to make a peening pliar, or rig something up so i can peen the plenum flap screws. I bought a deep jaw pliar today..so I'm either going to modify them to become a peening pliar, or I'll find a small triangle to clamp down against, which should have the same effect...


Then- i took my other throttle body outside and cleaned it. Cuz you know I'm going to do another...Ive thought about selling this intake once it's done and doing it again...we will see.

When i eventually get mine out of my car...I'll be tearing into that one as well. I definitely want to see what the differences are btw the early and late throttle bodies.

If anyone does it before me, feel free to hijack this thread and toss it in!

I just came across Jeff's video of the Run to Marblehead 2017...

So while I'm tinkering in the basement...this should entertain a bit. My car got a little play..it's the one w the yellow headlights...


Enjoy. I'll be back at it soon.

Need to ceramic coat the hoses and get the rearward mess back together. Tool for peening - or rather, the one I'll use for peening, arrives tomorrow. Not quite sure if it'll get into the little plenum...but we will see.

New tool arrived today. I figured i could peen the plenum screws with a pair of vice grips, but the ones i have don't have the right shaped jaws...sooooo

Attachment 1289465

Grip-on pliers are very good. Don't cost much. And....they are orange. How much cooler could they get.

So as to not have to destroy a brand new set of vise grips, i figured what i would do, is protect the one jaw and the head of the screw, by padding it with aluminum tape held on by blue tape...

And then for the peening side, i took a triangular profiled file, and broke off the small end. The file metal, being extremely hard, is incredibly brittle. So i clamped the file in a vice, tapped it with a ball-peen hammer, and crack. I have my bit.

Attachment 1289466

Attachment 1289467

Then i taped the pad to one side and the triangle bit to the other...

Attachment 1289470

Carefully lined it up on the screw...

Attachment 1289469

Squooooooze....

Attachment 1289468

And done.

I then repeated on the remaining.

But the little plenum, the jaws of the pliers don't fit in the hole...so i tried a pair of needle nose vice grips, which seemed to work, but my eye sight is failing fast as i age...so after the peening, i tapped a screw driver blade into the threads, just on the little plenum. For good measure. Must be careful to not hammer on the threads here. It's not necessary, and you don't want to damage the bearings. The metal of the screw is very soft. So a light tap is all you need.

Attachment 1289471

So we are good. The screws are in with red lock tite, and for good measure, properly peened as per the way Porsche installed them.

And the throttle body is done. Time to move on to the manifolds and i am almost ready to reassemble the hoses.

Doing something no one has ever done, is kinda fun. Learning a lot and making good progress.

Ok - so this car shows up on bat...

Attachment 1289546

And then I'm reading the description - and i come across this:

Attachment 1289545

Can i please have all the aluminum throttle body's and intakes you guys all want to throw away??? (So i can save them from the trash heap)

:)

The intake manifold seals have been shrinking nicely. They are getting close. Nice and soft. So hopefully this works. Cuz then i can comfortably say the wintergreen oil and alcohol is a good idea.

Attachment 1289548

And so i then took all the grommets and tossed them in the wintergreen solution.

Attachment 1289547

Cuz they were hard as well. So hopefully they will come out soft and shrink back to the right size. The ones currently in my car are hard as rocks. So having fresh ones...life's little pleasures.

Why do you want all the aluminum intake manifolds? I can understand a TB.
Wouldn't the plastic be better for heat dissipation and weight?

I like them. I'll take them all. If i have multiples, i can try different things.

:)

I love your style and attention to detail - Tinkering and really trying to understand how these engines work. So much of that is lost in today's rip and replace world.

When we got into the whole dbfd thing - that was kind of the entire idea...cuz we went from a bunch of old car guys tinkering on expensive old cars and a bunch of younger car guys tinkering on cheaper cars like bugs and 914s...to a bolt on, look at my wheels kinda world...and nothing wrong with hiring someone else or doing stuff for show...but i found a lot of guys on both sides that really wanted to do this stuff, but either didn't have the time or didn't have the expertise but wanted it- and just never had anyone around to say "not that way, this way"....or "yeah, no one has ever done that, let's figure out if this could work"....

So out came the dbfd community- drive it break it fix it...drive it again. If it has to go to a shop, so be it, but most of ownership of a Porsche doesn't have to cost much, and if you pick up a wrench, won't have to. And if you hit the maintenance areas early, and change fluids often, these cars are pretty bullet proof. And in my case, the best daily driver you can find.

I'm dreading the day when they are worth so much that daily driving will be impossible, not because i won't drive it everyday, cuz It'll still be my daily...but that's the day that I'm the only one left...it's all about the community.

We will have to make up more dbfd window stickers, cuz honestly everyone here reading this is part of it and needs a qtr window sticker...

:)

Attachment 1289682

Thanks for all the support.

It's all about the fun stuff

I get 15 minute blasts of time to get to my intake project...so here is tonight's...

First up... the grommets came out of the wintergreen oil and alcohol...nice and soft like new and smelling minty!

Attachment 1289688

I didn't need the string, so in they went with a little bending and prodding. Had i not soaked them, btw, they likely would have torn. But reinstall was easy.

Attachment 1289689

And now the hard part...how the hell does this mess of hoses and connectors go back together?.

Attachment 1289687

Thank god i took a lot of pics before disassembly. I'm going to get all the clamps together and fit it, but nothing will be tightened down until the full rebuild.

I figured today was a good day for whitening. I didn't order new white plastic connectors. The ones i have are fine and hold vacuum. So better idea is just clean them.

Attachment 1289712

So here is the trick.

Attachment 1289713

Whitening denture tabs. Old yellowed plastic comes out "whiter". Won't make them new. But they will be a lot whiter tomorrow.

Attachment 1289711

I'll check back after i pull them out , with some results.

and then so i could clean up the bench a little, i fit the rest of the pieces to the throttle body and stuck the hoses on. Not all the way, just enough to see them in place. They are coming off again, so no need to go crazy.

But looks good. Progress feels good. The hard work is coming soon.

Attachment 1289719

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And my little maestro pezzo...the oh-so-wonderfully named...Wot dodad...

Attachment 1289716

And lastly for today. I installed the vacuum hose that runs to this guy:

Attachment 1289720

And sucked on it.

Insert funny comment:

----here----


Anyway, i am amazed at how much vacuum pressure is necessary to work the resonance flap. I had thought that the resonance flap was sticky before. Or that there was an issue with the vacuum actuator. But now that it's together and fully renovated. And since i have another throttle body as "control group" to test back and forth from, here's the finding:

1. Takes huge vacuum pressure to fully open the flap.

2. As i had originally feared, the rubber hose Porsche used collapses under the vacuum load.

So. Not much i can do about the amount of vacuum needed. I assume Porsche designed it to function with the vacuum provided. And if there are no leaks or clogged vac valves, all should be ok.

But...the hose collapse thing is silly. It's a 4mm id line. And it should be a 4mm id hard line. Or at least something that won't collapse. So I'm off to find a solution. I had been looking a few weeks back, but didn't find a better line than Porsche's, so gave up and was going to use oem line. But no. In my car, when that system is telling the flap to open. It's just going to open.

Let's talk prices for a moment.

The little vacuum elbows...

6 dollars at sunset. Which is fine. They are 4 dollars if you find the same ones not labeled "Porsche" on the website. But 4 to 6...not worried. They are 6+ elsewhere.

That vacuum check valve by Pierburg that i listed back in the beginning. Yes i found the Volvo one on amazon for 19 dollars. I have since seen them cheaper. I think 14 is the lowest so far.

So here is something i have run across now quite a few times....

When our cars were new, and Porsche used parts that were in manufacture by Bosch, Pierburg, etc, that weren't exclusively made for this car, they simply went to the 1991 Amazon.de website and ordered them. Or rather, dialed their distributor and spoke with a human, and placed a nice happy order for the fellows in the plant that were at that point, standing around with a throttle body in hand wondering where their parts were.

Anyway...a few weeks, or maybe months later, with that poor guy still waiting for his parts, in rolls the huge truck for the Pierburg parts, and out comes this:

Attachment 1289724

And you know...there was another guy in another department, that, rather than using the Pierburg part number, made up a Porsche one. Cuz why not. 911-618-123-01
Rather than using the Pierburg number clearly marked on the side of the unit.

Well here we are, and 20 years later, we have a Porsche part number from PET. And a 30 year old part number on the side of a unit that Porsche didn't make. And no one to tell us how their part numbers changed over the years.

So we look up the part in pet, and there it is, still available after all this time. 85 dollars. Must be special. Costs a lot, and it's being bought direct from PORSCHE. Oooooooooo

Ok. But they didn't have amazon.de...and we do. We also have the googleZzz...

And with a bit of detective work, all of Ten minutes.

Attachment 1289725

On the ebays...

So 85 went to 30.

Next up, the fun one....

Attachment 1289726

Take a wild guess how much Sunset lists this part for....

Two Hundred Eight Dollars....and thirty seven cents

Really? Is that possible?

What is it? Sunset calls it "vacuum solenoid"
What it is, however, is a purge valve. It's a common part on many cars. And so...it has to be available. And of course Bosch has changed its parts numbers a million times. So go looking for the part number on the side of the unit, and no dice. Are you really going to buy the part from Porsche? For 208.37 ??? Cuz you will be sent this part:

Attachment 1289727

Now back to the less insane world of "does it need to be a real Porsche part...

Cuz these things suck, and they tear all the time because everyone tightens them too hard.

Attachment 1289728

Those are 12 dollars each from Porsche. And again. An extremely common thing.

Same exact (or rather....virtually identical) part at McMaster Carr

Attachment 1289729

1.86 each.

Lastly. Please install these with silver antiseize. It kills me when they get stuck.

I ordered a bunch of other stuff tonight as well. But these were the funny ones.

Long and short, if it's made by Porsche, you likely have to get it from Porsche and find the best price. If it's not made by Porsche, they likely produced as many as they could for as many manufacturers as they could. And so it's likely available for a lot less if you dig. Don't always go by just the part number on the side of the thing. If that part number doesn't exist, more often than not, it means it changed to a new part number.

Goughary,

My the Porsche gods bless you and this thread. I have two metal intakes and my C4 is still in pieces. (been off in a multi-year Mercedes detour).

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...a5134b2138.jpg

I want to see how your car run's with one micro switch. my car had two switch's one to tell the computer idle and one for wide open throttle. mybe your car is not wired like this.

Mine has two. They all do. I just haven't featured that anywhere. But it's there. It runs on the same wiring as the wot switch. Somewhere back there you will see two wires running across the front of the body. Those are the switch wires. They both run to the plug just next to the bracket that holds the ISV on top.

Btw- fwiw. When bill was starting up the motor he rebuilt (SK993 thread)...we spent a little time prior to starting it up testing and making sure both of those switches worked properly. And the off-throttle switch wasn't working. So for anyone out there re-installing a motor.....there are two things to look for.

1. Proper extension of the throttle cable, which can be adjusted for full length or to shorten.

2. Is the throttle cable is installed properly, the bracket that holds the switch is slotted, so you can loosen the screws on the bracket and move the switch into place. And tighten them down.

For the WOT switch. Only the reward screw on the bracket is slotted, so you loosen the front and rear screws slightly, and slide the rear of the bracket up and down to position the WOT micro switch.

I didn't mean to make you get upset. I only saw the one switch on the intake your doing. when my idle switch wasn't set right I got a check engine light and the Idle was hunting. It brings the timing down to zero at idle. sorry to reply.

I hope i didn't sound upset. Not at all. I enjoy all the commentary...so no worries....I'm glad you all are following and participating. So if when i respond i sound snatchy...I'm just sitting here typing and throwing stuff out into the wind...

:)

I can't wait to see your car btw...one of these days we will find some time to get the entire 964 special interest group together. I've been almost entirely out of commission for shows and such this summer w the job and the new baby. Maybe at caffeine and carburetors in new Canaan if they have another this fall...

I had a little problem going on in my head...sometimes these little details kill me.

Remember this?

Attachment 1289817

I'm still working on this one. Need to finish the prep on the manifold before the emblem can be glued. But....

The emblem is from a 356. So it's not quite right for a 964. The "C" is all wrong.

On the rear decklid, we see this:

Attachment 1289818

Don't judge- the car is dirty.

Anyway...when i lift the hood, seeing this would kill me:

Attachment 1289819

It's just all wrong. So it needed to be modified to be juuuuuuuust right.....

Attachment 1289820

Out came the dremel and the jewelers files...a little sand paper at the end. And 356 becomes 964...or at least close enough to it.

Now i feel a little better. And can proceed.

Emblem details?
 

The 356 had a large one and a small one. This is the small. It's a vintage metal one. I picked it up a long time ago for nothing. These have two pins on the back, and on this one, both pins were broken, so for a resto it was useless. I always figured I'd come across somewhere to use it...lol...and now i know!

But. It really had to either be modified, or i was going to have to buy the large 356 badge for the hood as well...but then i was going to have to make a 4 out of a 993 Carrera 4 decklid badge. Cuz the 993 Carrera badge is closer in size to the large 356 badge.

All that said. He typeface for the badge on our car is correct for the period. The 356 typeface is just wrong on all levels for a 90s car.

If anyone wants a 356 large or small badge, they are available new for 125 dollars approx at stoddard and many others. They are all gold, but that can be stripped.

Emblem details
 

Anyone ever binge watch a season of Rocky and Bullwinkle?


And now here's something we hope you'll really like!

Attachment 1289821

Attachment 1289822

This thing is seized solid. Exactly what most of the ones i have ever serviced are. Again- I'm amazed at how much gunk is traveling through this intake. And how much it crud's up everything. This is not from over filling the oil. This is normal use. And it is telling us that not only do the vac valves and isv, etc need regular service and cleaning, but that the Porsche engineers didn't expect it. For what ever reason.

Anyway. I could have just shot some carb cleaner in there, which works fine. And that would have loosened it up and it would have likely functioned fine.

But...since it's an extra, and I've never had an extra.....i decided to take it apart.

We had a thread recently discussing the isv, and if one got dissected there and if this is redundant...my apologies. But I'm fascinated. So let's dig in...

First - how the hell does it come apart???

I ground down the peens on the plastic side, where the plug is. And that cap was not coming off. At all.

So i thought "what better way to get this apart than brute force?"....couldn't think of one. So i got a punch and a hammer, and put the punch on the shaft on the opposite side, and whacked it out. Pop. All good. Apart it is.

Attachment 1289823

Turns out, the shaft is press fit into the tail end of the housing. Easy enough. It stays put, and everything inside rotates on the stationary shaft.

From there, it's three small screws and the whole thing comes apart.

Attachment 1289825

Attachment 1289824

And then not to belabor anything, cuz I've done no work on it yet. Here are individual pics of the components:

Attachment 1289827

Attachment 1289830

Attachment 1289828

Attachment 1289831

Attachment 1289826

Attachment 1289829

Now having had one apart...two observations...

1. Likely one should not be using carb cleaner or brake cleaner in there. It's electrical and has an electro magnetic motor that runs the flap back and forth. So maybe electronics cleaner is a better way to clean it out.

2. This should be disassembled to clean properly, the bearings should be cleaned and greased, and so i will be modifying this to be openable.

Thanks!

They never made numbers this small. And the Carrera actually is just the right length for that spot on the passenger side intake manifold. So the plan right now is just the one badge on the one side.

I do all this stuff in my head...and just modify the ideas as i go. So in the end...we will see how it comes out at the unveil!

And one last thing for the day. I refitted the tangled web of now Kevlar lined hoses. The one up top that faces north, will later be turned to face south and it fits itself through the bend in the left hand side....like tying your shoes. What a mess.

Attachment 1289840

None of the Oetiker clamps are tightened yet. That all happens later when I'm ready to fit the whole thing together.

When i first tore this apart, it didn't occur to me how simple and brilliant the design actually is. Once you understand the mess, it's pretty simple. This whole unit uses oetiker clamps for a reason. It's a unit. Where it attaches to everything else, the manifold on the driver side for banks 1-3, and the throttle body, etc, they used hose clamps. You un-do a couple clamps and the unit comes out. Can then be serviced, and knitted and knotted back together and reinstalled as a lump of a unit again. Easy enough.

A little ISV work today. Primed and painted.

Attachment 1289864

I don't have an after picture just yet. But it came out nice. It's kind of a stupid idea to paint this. It's held on, in the early intake, with a hose clamp. So the paint is just going to get scratched up.

Anyway. I cleaned the internals today and properly greased the bearings. I'd like to make the cap removable so next service i can just take it apart. So I'm thinking rather than peening, I'll throw a couple dots of jb weld on it. Easy enough to remove the jb when cleaning becomes necessary after a few years.

Ok. We are ready to rebuild.

Need to let the paint cure and harden for a bit prior. I wonder if i can get the inside clean and grease free enough to ceramic coat the inside. Might help prevent gumming up....

Attachment 1289881

Remember back in the beginning - when i was cleaning stuff and i gave up on the intake sleeves?

They were all crusty, and i couldn't get that stuff off to save my life.

I later bought a new set. Those were hard...so in they went to a bath of wintergreen oil and alcohol. They came out huge and way over expanded. (They have since shrink back down to the correct size). But in the meantime, not wanting to buy yet another set of seals, i got to thinking. I have another set of seals from another intake that i have...and they are crusty too. So after cleaning and degreasing - they look like this:

Attachment 1289896

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This crusty stuff is hard and feels like cement. And it's bonded to the rubber somehow. Now, since the aluminum on the throttle body is corroded and missing chunks that look to be the exact opposite shape of the crusty nasty on my rubber seals...I'm guessing it's corrosion. Basically aluminum rust.

Sooooo, what is the best way to get rid of rust and not eat through the substrate???

CLR.

Attachment 1289897

Well maybe not "the best"...but i happen to have some around. So it's worth a shot, right?

I had tried, all kinds of chemicals, then Dawn dishwashing liquid, wd40, and spray 9. Nothing would touch this stuff.

Until i has the brilliant idea to try something made for the task.

Attachment 1289898

Attachment 1289899

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Attachment 1289900

Hope those show well. I'm amazed. It took a while, and periodically i rubbed them with a toothbrush. Now that they are dry, i can see on a couple of them that there are still some spots. So I'll hit those again. But wow.

Pretty much everyone with an aluminum throttle body is going to have this problem. The plastic ones should have zero of this kind of thing.

Chalk one up for why plastic....

Back to the isv. Let's see if i can make this clear....

On disassembly, there is no reason to take out the shaft, and effectively, your job will be easier if you don't. There is an E clip at the top of the shaft. If you can't get the plastic cap off after grinding away the peens, the only way is going to be to press out the shaft like i did. But if you get the cap to wiggle out- it's only in there with an oring and it's plugged onto the spool...so it will come out if you work at it. Wiggle wiggle...

Anyway. Once the cap is off, take the e clip off, then the spacers. Then the spring straight up.

The rest is pressed in. So turn the unit with the open side facing toward the bench and slam it into the bench a couple times. The spindle that rotates in the shaft is heavy. That will act as a battering ram and pop the silver gear looking thing out. Mark that and it's orientation prior to this step. You'll have to reassemble it in the exact same place as before.

Once it's all out. Clean it up. Regrease the bearings- not easy cuz they are tiny needle bearings...and then grind down the peens and anythjng that will impede reassembly.

Make sure you know the order of the pieces going back in. Spacers and all.

Attachment 1289982

Then installl the spindle and this thing:

Attachment 1289980

Spindle first , then that thing and then press with a 27mm socket

Attachment 1289978

Attachment 1289979

And now you should be here:

Attachment 1289981

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Then screw the silver gear looking thing to the top of the spool, assuming you took it apart- you didn't need to...

Attachment 1289985

Attachment 1289986

Slip that into the unit oriented as it has been. Press carefully with a small socket toward the center. Make sure you are going in nice and straight. Then install the spring and the spacers and the e clip.

Attachment 1289991

Attachment 1289992

And you are ready to put the cap back on. The cap is not under pressure. And the e clip holds all the important stuff from moving. So I'm going to put a bead of silicone on the rim once the cap is installed, to hold it in place, and all done. Serviceable ISV.

Attachment 1289993

Rob - Incredible thread. Keep it going. :cheers:

I might start on the ISV project this weekend, since I have an old one handy. :)

If you do, post your progress here. I'd like to see how it goes and if you have any hiccups and solutions i haven't come up with

ISV side note. I was having a problem pressing the parts in far enough. And i found out an important tid bit. Heat the housing prior to installing the steel cylinder- This will allow you to press it in with less pressure- if you do it cold, you will likely bend the housing.

Anyway. Aside from destroying good parts...somehow i wasn't getting the pieces back in by around 2mm. Very strange.

Also now having taken it apart 100 times...when you put it back together, the way to line up the shaft is to set it up so the "door" in the front is closed. Then drop the part, with the spring attached, in, so the spring sits in the correct orientation at rest, with the door closed. This will make sense when you try it.

Then pull the spring and press the gear looking thing down- lightly. Into place.

Install the spring, the spacers, then e clip and the cap. Done.

On the ISV...

Here's a tidbit...i took the unit apart again to get the internals to seat properly. And over-pressed it and the center shaft moved slightly off center and that just kinda sucks. So i put it aside and thought maybe to buy another to have another to rebuild, as it would be nice to have a fresh one in the car when all this goes in.

None of this is necessary- as cleaning your isv the old fashioned way clearly works. I'm just having fun making old stuff new again. So don't go crazy thinking you have to take apart your isv.

Anyway. Turns out....you can buy an isv for a bunch of other cars, 944, bmw, Volvo etc...for next to nothing all made by Bosch. Just not the one for our car. For our car, you are screwed. As with everything for a 964. You can buy a used 944 isv for 20 dollars all day long. For us, it's 100 dollars all day long. What gives?

But. Many isv were made for many cars. And guess which one is virtually identical to ours, minus the two pin connector? Our friend the mercedes 190e. They should rename that the Mercedes 964...cuz dammmm.

That isv seems to use the exact same housing. And you can buy them all day long for....20 dollars. Soooooo, i bought one, and will swap my internals to the Mercedes housing and get that thing done and out of the way.

We learn here about the Porsche tax. And the "I'm a heavy handed dum dum" tax.

Onward then to other things. I bought a bunch of hammer handles- i have a few heads for ball peen hammers that i need to have in use...and could have been useful for this job. Various sizes. All extremely old, of course. Cuz if it ain't old i tend to dislike. So, since they are pertinent to the job at hand, if anyone wants to know how to restore a hammer....I'll post the process here. It's kinda fascinating. Gotta love wood.

In other news...I've been spending my 15 min shots doing a little sanding and shaping on the one intake manifold I've been working on. It's coming along slowly but surely. I think I'm ready to throw a coat of primer on the manifold. It's not perfect, but the paint and a little more sanding will inevitably cover some imperfection.

Carrera badge is not mounted, but i was trying to figure out exact placement - here are some pics. The manifold will be two tone - i think black up the legs and silver for the top. We will see.

Attachment 1290870

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That's all for now. Leather tools arrived, so at some point I'll be making some leather goods for the car as well. And maybe a watch bandit this guy:

Attachment 1290871

Because apparently a watch needs to match the interior of the car...

How well can you read German? All of the specifications for the different Bosch ISVs are actually documented

use two part epoxy caliper paint self levels fills in all the voids. plus hi temp

I am a native German speaker so happy to help with translation. Let me know what you need.

Wife just asked me what I was reading and I answered "some dude refurbishing an intake manifold." Got the rolled eyes and some comment I ignored. Great thread, great read. Thanks.

Best thing about women...is if they didn't roll their eyes, they'd be more like a dude...sooooo thank god for eye rolling...

:)

I did the first coats of paint on the right hand manifold today. More to come once i can tape it off and do the other color...

And here are some mid paint pics...

Attachment 1291113

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Next up is to tape it off and hit the lower part with a darker paint. I'm going to give flat black a try and see how that looks. Should be nice.

Started on the left side manifold today...

From this:

Attachment 1291222

To this:

Attachment 1291220

To this:

Attachment 1291221

And then gave the top. Quick once over with the sanding wheel. So the big part is done. Now to shape and smooth that out...

Attachment 1291223

Not sure Ricardo. I just went with the natural color - yellow.

Keep in mind that the Kevlar and the shrink tubing increase the od of the lines- so new clamps will be needed that are larger than stock. For some of them. Most of the normal hose clamps open wider. But the high pressure clamps and oetiker clamps need to be purchased in a larger size.

Anyone trying to PM me - i just cleaned out my pm box - - which means I have no previous msgs - so please expect that I have forgotten any previous communication and forgive me...lol

I do everything on reenlist over my phone - I happen to be home today w access to a computer - and on the phone for some reason I couldn't clean those boxes out.


Further - I have gotten "visiter" msgs on rennlist- which I won't see on my phone - So use the PM and not "visiter" messaging pls if you need to get in touch - And for those of you that have me on fb or have my phone....text is always quicker and best.

Thanks - now back to our regularly scheduled program.

Interesting project - satisfying to clean up years of oily smudge.
Sorry if I missed these answers in prior posts....
Obviously it can only help - we know that even if we'll never know "how much".

There's the obvious question if you will notice any increase in power (or increases sharpness in response) - or more scientifically if you did you dyno the car before the project?

Or did you install a vacuum/boost gauge and see what kind of vacuum you were pulling on decel, or at 3000 rpm or something. Would be interesting to see if there's a difference.

Anyway - good job.

Brandon
'91 964 Turbo

This is all being done on the bench for now. The car is my daily driver. So ideally what id like to do is dyno it as is, and then do another dyno run once this intake goes in...to have a back to back.

But i can only do that is there is a local shop that wants to donate the dyno time. So who knows.

Would be interesting though for sure.

So far- the big discoveries have been that you can indeed service the throttle body. Which Porsche calls a non-serviceable part- and then the other is how badly clogged the vacuum valves become over time. We already knew about the potential for vacuum leaks.

So it's already a success. Now onto the bling stuff, shine spit sand paint yadda yadda...and in it will go.

some times you'll see that the but dyno is better than the dyno. you would need to have condensation the same to be a good test. dyno good to see what the max is but driving it is the real test in all ranges

Fair.

The other valves are the other two on the front of the throttle body (part facing you when you look at it. Then you have the resonance flap actuator, which very likely won't be gummed up, and then you have two for the fuel return system from the carbon canister.

All that said. Just test the ones you have before replacing. And if you like, you can shoot them with carb cleaner and then blow them out dry with a can of air or a compressor on low pressure. That actually made the ones i have here function well enough. Though i went ahead and found replacements anyway. I think i posted the way to do this inexpensively earlier in the thread.

Call me if you need any pointers when you get into the job. And if the bearings in the throttle body have bad seals, feel free to get in touch if you need to send it here to be done. Happy to help.

Yes dyno time costs money. A boost/vacuum gauge is cheap - put one in and do a before/after - see if it pulls more vacuum on decel, and at idle.... That should be cheap easy and give you a real result..

Just my opinion :-)

Brandon
'91 964 Turbo

Bad luck today. I painted the passenger side manifold. I had intended to do a two tone thing with the body silver and the legs black...

It looked like Snoopy, after a bad night on the town....with a bit of an opiate problem.

I hated it. I do everything in my head. Yeah, it'd be nice to work it out on a screen in photoshop. But where is the fun in that? I spent too many years working in photoshop....I'd rather just take the image from my head and do it. Paint to canvas as it were. And what that means is that sometimes money and time are spent uselessly with a terrible feeling of failure at the end.

But no - wait. That wasn't the real failure. I then gave it a quick wet sand. Dried it. And began to repaint it silver. Silver needs to be laid down right or it doesn't come out well. Even, and just wet enough, but not too wet. And then there is a cough....

Turn your head and cough. It happens that fast. How? I have no idea. I was busy with my cough.

A spot too thick. Just one spot.

The messy part starts. The right way to proceed when this happens, is to strip the entire thing and start fresh. Paint is getting thick. But it's a manifold and needs to be silver. So I'm not too worried and I'm not stripping the entire thing. So i started sanding it so i could re-shoot. And that's when it just got messy. Wet paint. Sorta dry ish paint. Rushing. How many times have you been told..."when you paint, don't rush". "If you get frustrated, stop".

Just stop. Go back another day. Stop.

So yeah. I dried it. Sanded most of the paint off. And started over. Cuz - when you blow it. Just stop. Assess. Take your time. And if the right thing to do is it start over. Starting over will take less time than making a mess of the whole thing and then...starting over anyway.

No pics. Too embarrassed. Although there were two guys here that surely were scratching their heads. One of them had just bought a massive set of reds. Fronts. And now will be looking for a set of rears to compliment. Yeah. They aren't really big reds. When you have them in your hands. They are Massive.

Which is good. Since brakes are way more important than my screwing up a paint job. So maybe i got away with it...lol.

Lesson?

i love the ISV detail (thanks also Jason!) and the little bits you found at MMCarr etc..

don't forget you could just polish it! I am actually planning to clean mine up once I see more of your cleverness

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...80dd122692.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...6c8e92e299.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...a74b22635b.png

Yours are beautiful and they had actually inspired me to want to do them back when i first saw your pics. I chose to paint them silver...only because i have a million projects, still a lot to do on this one, and the polishing time is really one of those things I'd rather pay someone else to do...cuz to get it right, takes a lot of time and elbow grease for sure...and I'm having a hard time finding time these days...

That said, i did have time to renovate six ball peen hammers, a few of which were my grandfathers...so really I'm just whining...lol

:bigbye::roflmao:

wait till you find out what it takes to keep that intake polished. I had that done to a jag intake and front cover what a pain keeping it looking good. If you use it.

I'm happy with it after 3 years and 25k kms - it's not quite as scintillating as it was the day I installed the engine
BUT it still clearly a neat, fluid, polished chrome-like finish and a little wipe every deep valet seems to keep it that way - maybe the quali and thickness of the ali is the key (sorry you boys with later plastic manifolds boohoo)



https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...356b57a0ec.jpg

.. you're not comparing our engines to Jag engines surely? ;)

now a days I could have this plastic manifold chromed.

So this happened today...

Attachment 1293789

And since none of us need more than one...i may be able to renovate one and take yours as a core...if someone needs the basics done. Pm me if you have been following this and thought maybe you want a new aluminum throttle body but don't feel like doing the grunt work.

I have no timeline...so none of this is immediate. Just thinking out loud if it's helpful to anyone.

its hard enough keeping the E88 rings looking decent (raw aluminum).... i'm not much for cleaning my cars, i keep them tidy, but not very OCD.
Today was deep clean day on the 964 tho (wash clay polish wax, clean rings, interior). No wheels off underbody tho.

Has anyone tried ceramic coatings to keep raw aluminum clean looking- on things like e88 rings...

Here is a question for the conoscienti...

As i posted above, i went dumpster diving today and came up with a bunch of aluminum throttle bodies and some intake manifolds...anyone else has these laying around and don't want them?

Anyway...it's kind of fascinating me that i have a bunch of 964 aluminum throttle bodies, and they all have differences...most will be options...but a couple are clearly design changes to things that are bolted on. And i only have the latest parts catalog, so these things don't show in drawings.


That said...this is the oddball:

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It has two resonance flaps. Which I've not seen before.

I did however find a couple of threads where these had been brought up before, but not one of those threads offered insight, info, or knowledge...

So- does anyone know anything about the history of the dual resonance flap? It has the same part number on the throttle body as the others. And clearly came earlier than the single flap unit. As there is a lever on the remaining resonance flap that always looked like it should attach to something- and i had been confused- but now i know it is a leftover from when the casting had the second flap, and there was an arm attached to it. Porsche simply changed the casting and took out the arm. And left the flap and vacuum actuator unchanged there on the right hand side of the throttle body.

Now- I'm assuming is was taken out due to the amount of vacuum necessary open both flaps- as it's much harder to open the tow than just one. So likely the second flap wasn't necessary or wasn't reliable enough.


Does anyone know the real story?

The intake is from a 964 and has a 964 part number.

I found these pics on a thread from 2006 referencing a similar one coming off a 964...

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I searched all the old parts catalogs i could find- no drawing of it references two flaps. I searched 930 and 993 and 944 and 968...but regardless it's a 964 part number...just don't see it anywhere.

If someone has a printed catalog from 1989, maybe it's in there? What about other countries?

Maybe the early cup cars or the RS?

Regardless - In all likelihood, they changed it either to save cost or because the vacuum wasn't enough to make it function properly...

Interesting though, that the part numbers on the casting btw the casting for two flaps and casting for one flap didn't change- though it's a significant change in the casting and design.

I'm wondering about the differences in total air volume from banks 1-3 to banks 4-6 though, as the dual flap allows the volume to be the same both sides - where the single flap means banks 1-3 have a significantly higher total air volume- and in the later plastic body, the resonance flap was moved to the center to correct this...

These dual flap throttles were popular and used in OEM applications in 924's and Audi 5cyl and even VW 16v. The idea was the primary, then the secondary open up, providing a non-linear throttle response and better driveability at low throttle opening. I am not sure how necessary that was on a larger displacement engine like the 3.6L.

I think you are confusing the question.

I'm only talking about the resonance flaps...not the dual intake plenums...

There is normally only one resonance flap...but this throttle body has two....which seems to me to be an earlier design that was changed mid stream...

Maybe just the early MY89(?) and then the design was simplified and improved.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...903d8b6abe.png


It was actually this reason or rather, problems with it that caused Porsche to stop using the dual-butterfly throttle and switch to a single-opening. The original was modified (MY91'ish) so that the large throttle plate would start opening after the smaller reached 5°, which helped. But there were still "problems during slow acceleration"

That's what i was figuring - that they later simplified it for some reason. Now we have to find the guy that made that decision and ask him why...

Well, applying principles of aerodynamics, I would guess that two resonance flaps create more turbulence than one. Turbulence means loss off energy and less efficient flow. The more likely reason is that one flap is simply cheaper than two, one less part that could fail, and one less quality control point. Or it could be an entirely different reason altogether.

Not much has happened here - outside of gathering more intakes and restoring 75 year old ball peen hammers...

But last night- i bit the bullet and while the wife and kid weren't looking....i disappeared into the basement, sanded the bottom side of the 356 Carrera badge, and mixed up some slow cure jb epoxy...

Then...

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I held it down with tape, then as it set up, very carefully removed any squeeze out with a razor, and then a small screw driver and a tencel rag.

The good thing about not being singer...i don't have a customer that would kill me for microscopic flaws...bad thing about not being singer, i get these ideas in my head, and i can't hire some kid who is WAY better than me to do it for me. C'est la vie. Or at least - C'est ma vie...

Absolutely magnificent. Looks fantastic. Congratulations, this is a classic. Forget Singer :)

Thanks...now back to sanding and shaping the other. And then ceramic and reassembly.

If any of you are coming to caffeine and carburetors in new Canaan Sunday, I'm bringing this manifold with me to show some people. Most of you are far and wide....but for the New York area peeps...

Now you'll have to design and build a clear engine lid to show off the excellent work!

Now there is a thought...a polycarbonate duck tail!

I brought my 456 intake manifold and the throttle body to caffeine and carburetors in new Canaan today...

Got some good positive ego feeding comments...a couple of the guys actually commented on some of the details that no one would ever understand...but they are there.

The hardest thing one can do...is make something hard, look easy.

Not saying i do this (wouldn't want to project the image of my massive ego. Scary stuff), but , but, it is what i strive to do.

Biggest issue with singer...is that i can't do that, yu can't do that, he can't do that...and nor can they...it's so good that it's impossible and can only be bought...not made.

So on to the image of the guy in the shop...or rather - me - sitting on my basement floor watching a one hour panel discussion on Carlo Molino on YouTube...after, of course, having watched a 908 scream through a lap of the targa florio, a history of Porsche documentary, "Porsche disrupter " documentary, and some fine carbon fiber wheel building, by a guy in a shop, with a bench, in Sweden. He made it look so easy...

I however, moved on to the bisiluro, and Carlo Molino...and sanding. So much sanding, in fact, that there is skin missing from my hands, in some places. Never a weekend passes that i don't donate skin and blood to our great earth.

Yes all that, because what i was doing was sooooo boring and not really worth the pictures...but here you go.

It had been roughed out, so now onto reshaping:

Attachment 1294365

100 grit sandpaper, shape shape shape, then some 220 to take a look:

Attachment 1294370

Then back to it, then 220 to check again:

Attachment 1294367

Then hit some problem areas with 100 and then 220 again, and we are getting very close to right:

Attachment 1294366

Attachment 1294368

Attachment 1294369


And that is all for the day. Six hours of sanding is plenty for one day.

But it's so well worth it. Art requires sacrifice and patience and skill. Well, in my book this is a piece of art. Just beautiful.

Thank you! It's very difficult to do this stuff when you have so little free time. Can't wait for this kid to get a little older so i can hand him the sand paper...of course, at that point, it'll be to wet sand the rusty old 964 to prep it for a respray...

2036, he will be 18. He will need it for college...girls will dig it. "You mean you drive your own car???!??!"

Looks Great! Can't wait to see it bolted in

Jason, that's totally cheating...lol

So guess who is ready to get back to work...

Attachment 1295417

Really little guy? Are you reeeeeally ready???





























Attachment 1295416

Ok let's go!!!!

Remember way back when- i soaked the rubber intake seals in alcohol and wintergreen oil...and they expanded and became rather large...then later they had shrunk down a bit. But were still a little too big...in the meantime, i figured out how to get rid of the crusty corrosion crap inside the original seals- by soaking them in CLR and using a stiff plastic bristle brush, a little at a time and the old seals now are just fine to use...

However - in the months from new born baby jail to now at a less intrusive 3.5 months baby jail...kinda like being move from maximum security prison to minimum security white collar prison....the expanded seals have now become their original size...soooooo I'll use them and keep the others for spares. Which is to say, spares for someone else, because a good fresh set of seals will likely go another 20-30 years.

Anyway, on to assembly. And i have some questions that may need to be answered on my car, or on someone's car that has the old style intake and also cruise control...but more on that after the pics.

Attachment 1295428

Attachment 1295429

And then I'll spare you the step by step for how to put on a hose clamp....cuz uhhhhmmm its four hose clamps to get from those pics to these:

Attachment 1295433

Attachment 1295430

Attachment 1295431

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looks nice. just turn the hose clamps so they all face back. much easier to remove in the car If you want to take one side off. ask me how I know.

Well that is one of the questions actually. I have them facing the same way on my car as shown here.

You think the other way around is easier? I usually go in with a long extension over the top on the passenger side. I'm unsure what the best way to orient them is on the driver side.

So my thinking is this is best way...since we come up with our ways, then get old, and get stuck with them...lol.

Any tricks are always appreciated.

On the replacement parts...remember way back i had found that a bunch of things on the car were made by third party suppliers. So when you look at their part numbers, they aren't the same today as they were 30 years ago, and Porsche has their part number, but to find the identical part, you can't use Porsche's part number, you have to use the new third party part number...which Porsche doesn't supply you with. And so a 20 dollar part becomes an 80 dollar part...

So here is one of them...

Attachment 1295452

It's made by Pierburg

Attachment 1295449

But - on our car, the back end of it has to be blocked off with a stopper...

Attachment 1295450

Attachment 1295451

And done. New part at a significantly lower cost than going to Porsche. And Porsche would send the exact same part.

And don't forget the aluminum WOT switch do-dad!!!

Attachment 1295453

You'll notice when you look closely...that I've replaced most of the oem hardware with stainless buttonheads...

Attachment 1295454

I do these things against my better judgement. In all likelihood i have a Screw Extraction Madness thread in my future. So i don't really suggest any of you go the buttonhead route. That said, i won't be all monkey fisted with these things, and for the ones that get taken off every now and then, like the ones in the pic, they will be on with ample anti seize. So i should be ok.

Anyway, they are a huge visual improvement on the m6 hex bolts and the m6 and m5 Phillips. So they stay.

And then we find some alignment issues. This needs to be straight...

Attachment 1295456

It's a good thing i restored all those ball peen hammers...cuz...uhmmm...this is why we all have 10 different sized ball peen hammers. So we can choose the correct 2-3 to reshape a soft piece of steel...

Attachment 1295455

Do you have anymore available?

Of course...

Pm me and we can get that out...

So now the tricky part...the mess of hoses. When i started this project, i couldn't for the life of me figure out why Porsche would design it this way, and honestly, i still kinda don't get it. But, if it's done right, it's a unit on its own. And goes on and comes off as a unit. So for everything that is part of the unit, it's oetiker clamps and then for the extremities, it's hose clamps...because of this, i chose to replace all of the vacuum components, since this will go back together and then likely not come apart again for a loooooooong time.

First off, when fitting this all together, you don't crimp down the oetiker until you figure everything out. The hoses and the clamps all have to clock correctly, and the clamps have to be crimpable by the tool as well. So it's a good idea to dry fit.

Before i begin...make sure you have some type of helper for the hoses, you will need to slip them on and off a bunch....

Attachment 1295464

And then there is the double hose cradle clamp thingy...I'm sure there is a name for it. But this one is a pain in the ass and it connects to the manifold to support this whole mess. When you get there, this is the trick to make getting them on there a little easier...

Attachment 1295465

And then start weaving - i followed the pics from disassembly...and worked backward.

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And after everything is clamped down...here we are:

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Best comment so far was "that belongs in your livingroom"...so thanks to Dave for that one...

Now, here's something...my wife said, "if someone wants to buy that from you, I'll help you make another"...

So...it's not done yet, but someone has to make me an offer. When it's done. Cuz seeing her sanding intake manifolds and cleaning the caked on crap all over, and watching her pull needle bearings and press new ones...seriously would be priceless.

:)

And...it'll never happen.

You are indeed a "madman"... good on ya!

Happy to send you my 3.8 RS varioram if it will help you and the missus have a little bonding time;) amazing refinish of the intake, mad skills and attention to details.

Ok. Can we talk about this thing? Cuz this is a shytty shyt show...

Attachment 1295802

Back in the earlier pages of this thread, you will see that in my bestest and cockiest manner, oh so me typical, i beat the porsche tax and found one for waaaaaaay less than the 208 dollars from sunset....

But i ended up buying the wrong part number. And it seems that all of these that are still in production- ours is not- are 25 dollars, but they function in the opposite manner to ours. Which is to say, ours is open when no power is supplied and close on power. And the rest of the automobile world seems to have gone to closed on no power and open on power. Go figure.

Now- it amazes me that this is not in production, as it was used on a huge array of cars, many of which were big sellers. Vw golf, Passat, Saab 900, a bunch of Citroen, fiat, etc...

So here is the deal. After having an awful lot of fun researching...

This is part number 0280142151 Bosch purge valve. Saab , for example, used 0280142157...the Passat used 0280142153 or thereabouts...but they are all the same, with the exception that some have a slightly different housing or bracket to be mounted in different ways. The latest part number, and the only one in production is 0280142158, but that one is only available on special request, meaning that if VW or Porsche wanted to make a production run, they would be made. And then massively marked up and sold to slugs like you and me, that feel a need to pay up for a new part...

Unless however, the part is serviceable. Ooooolalaaaaa...let's see...

So firstly- what is this thing? Why is it there and what's its purpose?

It's in clear view when you open the hood, attached to the mess of vacuum hoses. And there is a cable coming off your engine wiring harness that is attached to it.

Long and short is this- fuel vapors get routed and stored in the carbon canister, and then this little guy gets power and allows nothing to suck (something we all need in our lives- aka, flick a switch and nothing sucks!)...but when it's not drawing power, the intake vacuum sucks the vapors in and they get burned up. I haven't looked too closely, but I'm going to assume when the wot switch clicks, the power turns on and the sucking stops.

If i have any of that wrong or backward- please chime in.

Now here is the deal- we really don't need to know any of that. What we need is for this thing to function. Which means air blows through when off and ZERO air blows through when on.

This one? Not so much. I made a little tester...

Attachment 1295803

I attached a hose to the small side to blow through, then a couple wires taped to a 9v battery. Don't cross the streams!

Anyway- i blew through the hose, touched the wires to the terminals- and was blowing less, but air was still moving trough. So clearly we aren't holding vacuum. And i am not paying 208 dollars plus shipping for a part that for everyone else costs 25 dollars. Just on principle i can't.

Sooooo...how do we get this gitzermy working? It doesn't come apart. And what I'm thinking is that like everything else in our intake, it gets gummed up with all the nasty evaporate that builds up in the system. And a little electronics cleaner will do the trick...

Attachment 1295804

I go through oooodles of this stuff. It's like the duct tape of fluids. And the rvp is super high...so it evaporates in a few seconds. Which is great.

Anyway...in it went. I covered one side with a finger. Filled it up. Plugged the other side and shook it for a minute or so. Then oddly enough, it took quite a bit of shaking to get the fluid back out. Repeated again. And then tapped and shook and blew through it until dry. Make sure it's all dry, before sparking wires around a tube you are blowing through...we don't need any explosions in the throat...or around the eyeballs.

And guess what. Full vacuum. Functions like new. Open on now power, fully blocked on power. Done. No need to spend 200 for a new one.

Attachment 1295805

On to the next.

A lot of us (myself included) are guilty of the "whilst I have it apart" I'll just replace everything with new mentality. We all love our cars and only want them to run like swiss watches. When I tackle this project in the new year, I'll take the time to try and resurrect anything that isn't working before forking out big dollars to Mr Pelican and Mr Porsche.

Thanks for sharing your experiences so openly!

Neil

I hadn't checked in on your progress for a while and I am sorry I missed all the fun.

If you try to tackle this again I would suggest air tools. An angle grinder with a 2" 3M disk would have saved you a lot of time and angst. You can start with a coarse 36 grit to remove material and work your way up to 80 or so. Then switch to scotch bright pads on a 2" mandrel. It would have saved you countless hours along with a lot of hand cramping and give you more time to play. So cute!!! Ready to take on the 964. ;)

Looks great can't wait to see it in the car.

PS:

For future projects these are a necessity. You can buy a 1" mandrel along with 2" or modify a two inch so it fits just the backing plate of the pad. This will allow you to break in the pad and use it in tight radius's. It takes on the shape of the curve. Once you are finished with 80 grit there are several scotch bright pads that will work from course to fine after that you can finish by hand. This is also great for pre prep for high polish. You can always finish off by hand with 200 or 400 grit wet but you can do one of those in no time with the help of these. BTW HF grinders for $15 are as good as the expensive ones. For the price toss when they break but I used to use these in commercial application and they lasted as long as the $200 ones.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...b243295dd2.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...bd9fd8b27a.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...4941dc028b.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...f1cb36451f.jpg


I have a couple if you can source the mandrel I have some to spare.

Love it - thank you...

This weekend was a bit of running around and then today, sorting slot cars...while watching a few YouTube documentaries on Porsche at lemans and Porsche at the targa florio...and then it flipped to supercharged gp cars of the thirties...

Anyway...had a little fun and stayed away from the intake today...

Attachment 1295868

Things get very busy for me now until after the new year...so hopefully I'll be able to dedicate some time in the coming weeks..let's see...

That pic is priceless.

I remember when I could get down on the floor like that. LOL

Enjoy the holidays. BTW Who makes the set? I have an early version when my son was young with early GT3's. It makes me want to break it out and act like a kid again. :)

That's just a scalextric sport track- the cars are both fly classic- heavily modified, Corrected and sorted alla Dbfd garage...of course...

Why am i drawn to things that look great, but need a lot of work to get right????

:)

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...8a30501cd1.jpg
Rob,
Fitted my WOT thingamajig. Required a minimal file adjust, and is a nice snug fit. You were right, the original one was cracked, although still functional (for now).
I have a question: What size is the inset screw? No metric allen key I own fit. I left it out, since the ting fits tight enough and is also kept by the circlip.

Ah yes...sorry George. I spec'd a metric set screw when i had them made- but being an American machine shop...and therefore incapable of following direction, they used an SAE size Allen....forgive me- i should have mentioned that since you are in the normal world of easy measurement!

I have no idea what size it is...but it is some fraction of an inch...can you get your hands on sae size tools over there? Lemme know if i need to send you one.

For the rest of you...i still have more of these. So if yours is cracked, pm me and I'll get one out.

Rob,
No problem finding a SAE allen here. I'll ask my Land Rover freak friends.
I am not even sure the set screw is necessary (?)

love this thread :corn:
Any plans for a catch can install???
cheers

No...but if i was going to go any farther than where i am already going...I'd be adding crank case ventilation

Fantastic result.
I was waiting for you to do a refurb on a Plastic manifold ( as promised way back in post # 6 :D ) for comparison.
I am curious to see if the resonance flap in the plastic manifold has the same seals as the alloy ones? I suspect mine are sucking air but cant work out how to test on the car.

Getting there...gotta finish this one and get to installing it so i can have my plastic throttle body to tear into...

Nice!

Can you feel any improvement? I imagine not. But just wondering...

Bump
 

I read with great interest your experiments into softening and cleaning of hardened rubber. Would you care to comment on your final observations and do you have any other advice? I have my Wintergreen oil and am about to start down the same path that you took.

Would you still recommend a 3:1 mixture of alcohol to oil?
Given that in 24 hours the rubber went way oversize, would you use a shorter soak time?
How long did it take for the rubber to shrink back to normal size?

Thanks for this very informative thread and sharing all of what you learned.
Cheers!

I probably soaked them too long. But they did come down in a few weeks. And are now a year later, like new.

What I've found is that not all rubber on our cars is the same - some things didn't react at all to the wintergreen oil.

That said, the main stuff did- after you have soft rubber and if you have any issues with expansion- let the rubber settle back down and make sure to give it some kind of protective coating to prevent further drying out and hardening.

My intake is still sitting on the bench. I haven't had a chance to take my car off the road for long enough to do the swap. So I'm not done with this thread yet. More will come once i get to stop dailying my 964. It's my only car, so it's tough sometimes when it has needs...

Yes btw. 3:1 mixture works well.
And your car will smell fresh and minty for ever!

Just stunning work. That is just commendable handwork and persistence.

Ty!

I wish i had a bit more time to get down into the weeds and get some work done. I've had so many other projects in the meantime...

Finally got some time on my own car today. It's been a long time, and my new mistress - the 996c4, has taken me away from the 964 for most of this winter...as have other 964...

Before getting into the hell - here is the hole...

Attachment 1311742

This is what i started with...

Attachment 1311740

And this is what came out...

Attachment 1311741

In the background there you can see the new intake.

Attachment 1311743




More to come.

So here is the hell...

First, i have not the money nor the time today to do this job the way Id like, which is to go all the way and replace everything and do a lot more paint work and polishing and and and....

Do we remember how much fuel lines cost? My lines were replaced entirely when i did the motor in 2010, so they are ok. Not pretty, but not dangerous for the moment. So they stay. The fuel filter and fuel pressure regulator did however get the bump....

Attachment 1311749

Attachment 1311745

But here is the thing...if we remember back to when this all started a couple years back (hard to believe my son is almost 1.5 yrs old)...

Attachment 1311751

...so here's the thing....i am changing from the newer plastic cross tubes and throttle body to the older aluminum unit...and there are some differences. And when it came to the disassembly, i first hadn't done enough homework, so i got myself confused, and made it harder than i needed to, but then got totally hung up on the fuel pressure regulator....on the never version, the FPR is attached to a bracket at the backside of the cross tubes on the throttle body. On the old version, it's held to a bracket that is mounted to the motor.

Attachment 1311750

So i had to buy the correct bracket, which i assume is a special order part, but let's see what sunset comes back with.

Seeing as how i have to now wait for parts...

Out came the alternator..

Attachment 1311748

And so we find, since we looked, the fan bearing is dead, the fan itself is bent and the runout was approx 1/4 inches, and the alternator bearings are dead as well. I'm not going the salvage the fan, and though i have an new fan hub and bearing, the new fan comes with a hub, so i ordered a new fan and just bit it.

But for the alternator, I've had quite a few reman alternators through my garage, and while I'm happy enough with them....this time, seeing as how costs are getting higher- the alternator is a place to easily save a fair amount of money. So i ordered a set of bearings, a voltage regulator, and the tolerance ring for 50 dollars. I may or may not use the voltage regulator, since the one in my unit was perfect and it was making 14 volt when i last used the car.

And then...since this was a mistake i made 10 years ago, and no better time than now to fix a huge mistake from ones past...

Attachment 1311744

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This fan housing was powder coated terribly when i did the motor. Huge mistake to go to someone cheap to do the powder. So it's now getting a chemical stripping...Hope this works out.


That's all for now. I thought to start down the rabbit hole...and to reseal the stacks, and take off the shroud and clean the motor up and inspect, and then to replace fuel lines like i mentioned above...but then the injectors come out and off to witchhunter and then and then and then...where does it stop?

So i stopped. Not happy about it- but I'll be back in there at some point for a clutch or something and maybe then drop the extra few k for all the other stuff that i want to do...And maybe by then, intake 2.0 will be done. (Haven't started the second one yet, but it's coming)

That's where we are at the moment. I'll be out there tomorrow doing some cleaning. The engine bay is gross. Needs a lot of attention.

Another day in the books, feels like i did nothing, but there was a huge amount done in preparation for new parts arriving. And a lot of cleaning in the now totally accessible engine bay....and then yet more deliberating over ripping out the rest and more cleaning and replacing seals etc...and then i thought "no".

So - question....why is there oil foam in the breather tube?

Attachment 1311761

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It's very odd. Strange that there seems to be a lot of it in there and it's very high up. Caked gummy stuff....thoughts?

The rest of the day was spent alternately btw powder coat removal - which is a horrible job-

Attachment 1311765

And just moving stuff from one intake to the other and re-routing vacuum hoses and trying to remember what went where so i can backdate the system properly.

Here is a quickie of the WOT do-dad installed. I still have a bunch. So if anyone needs one feel free to pm me. Once they are done, i will run off another set if there is demand. But the demand has been so slow i think we may have covered all current needs.

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Anyway- here is a pic of where things are. Doesn't look much different than yesterday. But we are moving forward...

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I stumbled on part of this thread and saw this post. I am currently rebuilding the intake on mine. Just a comment about the resonator actuator controller. I don’t think the back port is meant to be blocked. It works like a wastegate controller. The vac opens the valve and then when the controller switches, release the vac via the back port (closing the valve). The oem part is just a vented cover possibly with a specific vent size to control how fast it shuts.

That's an interesting point. I hadn't considered that. The valve is not actuated by vacuum however, it opens when the Wide open throttle micro switch is pressed.

The this would raise testing questions...anyone want to venture a guess how to test?

If you look at the control solenoid you'll see a black plug it just a cap to keep dirt out but it lets vacuum release so the flap can close. I know on my car this operates at 5500 RPM's on the gt3 intake I have now vacuum pulls the flap closed it's spring loaded to open it. I guess they do this so when the engine is low on vacuum the flap stays open.

The resonance valve is actuated by vacuum... How you have it setup, with the plug on, the first time the resonance valve is trigged it will be stuck open since the vac can’t be released. If you want to test, apply vac to the line and trigger the vacuum valve.

that plug is a filter. If you look at it you'll see it's open on the sides

Ok so out goes the plug and the original - which does not come with the replacement unit, I'll just pop onto the new one...and good to go.

As to how the resonance flap is actuated- yes it's correct that it's actuated by vacuum. However- it's only actuated by vacuum once the wot switch is pressed- which then this little unit switches open- and the vacuum that is used is then coming from the vacuum canister. So in effect, the resonance flap is electronically controlled in that sense.

I'd still like to figure a way to see the rear port in use- so maybe I'll attach a balloon to it after i get everything back together and see what it's doing.

Pierburg Vacuum Valve Cap……here is an image of the cap, with the the openings on the back.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...73e87148ec.jpg

Found this:

Attachment 1311790

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So here is the setup in the car...

Attachment 1311792

Which means that - in our case - with power off, the vacuum is being supplied to the vacuum canister from the intake, and with power on, the vacuum is then traveling through from the intake and the vac canister to the resonance flap.

Then we would have to assume that on power off, the vent on the right hand side of the solenoid in the photo allows the pressure to dissipate and the resonance flap closes by its return spring.

:cheers: Nice! Your intake is looking too good to be caught up on a small technical speed bump and possibly a loss of low end power.

Fyi.. I remember someone on this thread asking about the seals/bearings for the resonance shaft on the plastic intake. It uses brass bushings and 8x12x3 oil seals.

That's interesting- i was going to pull the one apart that i just took off the car and check that out. Do you happen to know a source for those seals and bushings?

The bushing/bearing is brass flanged sleeve, it would be hard to replace and I don’t think it was meant to (see pic). I’m planning to just add some dry Teflon lubricant. The seal I just grabbed a set of rubber VG oil seals off amazon.

Oil Seal 8X12X3 (2 PCS) Oil Seal Grease Seal VG |EAI Rubber Covered Outer Diameter with Sealing Lip 8mmX12mmX3mm | 0.315"x0.472"x0.118"

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...f026df1ba.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...4b570ef26.jpeg

I'm lost here? So you are saying that on an early aluminum intake stack, there is a physical connection between the WOT switch and the vacuum line attached to the resonance flap actuator?

No Jason...the clicking of the Wot switch sends the electrical signal to the vacuum solenoid that opens the vacuum to the resonance flap...

Sorry if that got confusing. Some of this and the reasons behind it, I'm learning as i go along. It's a strange mixture of vacuum used for performance reasons and also for environmental reasons. So it's good to finally put some documentation down and get the systems sorted. They seem so complicated until as we see now, they really aren't all that complicated in the end.

The Service Information Techniks have a pretty decent explanation for how everything works.

In this case, or at least for the plastic intake, the resonance flap is controlled electronically by the ECU and operates completely independent of the WOT switch.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...24313c1cfd.png

The description is accurate enough that you can map what's written in the documentation to the actual ECU source code;

Love me some assembly language, but how do you have this and is this accessible somewhere? It so odd to see source code with developer comments for a bosch EFI.

So now we need to review what actually happens when the wot switch is pressed. I think we always had the understanding here that it controlled the resonance flap.

I have that service technik somewhere. I'll have to look that up.

Fwiw/ the throttle body in that pic in the service technik you posted is the very early version that has the dual resonance flaps. One on each side. That seems to have been dropped shortly after production began. Perhaps there wasn't enough vacuum to open the flaps on a consistent basis? With two springs the system was a little heavy. I have one of those old units here.

So- here is the full diagram of the system from that tech manual up above. I knew i had a copy of that somewhere. Found it buried in old notebooks...

Attachment 1311817

And there is another page further back that describes the adjustment of the throttle off switch and the wot switch...

Attachment 1311818

Intake is going to take a back seat for a moment. It's a bit cold this weekend.

But....i got a couple packages in the mail. One was the fpr bracket from Sunset. This was a special order from Porsche AG, and they asked if i wanted to expedite and it came in days rather than a month, which was what i had expected. Really happy with those guys. So maybe that will have to get installed tomorrow- or we will have an attempted install...let's see.

The other box however- the other box was exciting....something that can be done in a heated basement shop...alternator rebuild parts.

Attachment 1311854

Well, it was exciting until i realized. But before going there, let's just tear down the alternator. There is a great DIY on the penguin site called something like Porsche 964 alternator rebuild. Which is so very imaginative...nothing mad about it at all. Very straight forward.

So we start to unscrew things...

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So that's it. I'm not going to explain that process. The other diy does a good job, and honestly you kinda don't even need it. Just unscrew things and split the halves and bang the armature out (carefully). You aren't going to reuse the bearings, so you don't have to be all that delicate. Just don't hurt the electrical parts.

Word to the wise- the screws are going to be sticky. But I'll get to the replacement screw sizes in the next post...

Did i mention i wasn't alone through that teardown? I had a visitor...

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Attachment 1311870

But then after he took off, i thought to get back to the teardown and get my new bearings in...
But noooooooooo

Attachment 1311872

I'll explain.

First, we break out the best/worst tool ever...which you really could say about any Pittsburg tool- but when it comes to bearing pullers- these are crap- but crap will usually do the job.

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They came right off. But here i the thing.

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Maybe the info was right for that other guy on that other thread- but for my alternator, his larger bearing size was incorrect. That said, when i ordered my rebuild kit, it came with the bearings for his alternator. So i had to put it all down and make a bearing order.

Here is the correct larger bearing for my alternator- the one that i pulled out:

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This was the incorrect size that came new today:

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And here is the smaller rear bearing that came out of my alternator:

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And if you, like me, have sticky philips and they cam out and strip the heads- here are some basic measurements for replacement:

M5:

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M4:

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So- my order was placed tonight for bearing and also for screws from McMaster. More to come. If i can get the time and get the garage heated a bit tomorrow I'll get back to the intake and stripping the fan housing.

Glad I didn't stick around for the "bearing measurement fail" lol. Darn kits...
Actually it was cool taking one of these apart. Good learning experience for when mine fails.

Today we got back to it... the fan housing is soaking in paint stripper. I'm shocked at how resistant that powder coat is. I'm also shocked at how thick it is.

But more on that later . My new fuel pressure regulator bracket arrived, so it was time to get some real work done "backdating" the intake system. I really wish it hadn't been years since the beginning of this project, but life and babies can really get in the way of fun- as can many other 964 and all their woes in the meantime. That said, there are a whole bunch of things that were top of mind when i began, and that have now either disappeared or surprise me when they come back to light.

First up, here is the bracket

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And then when we look at the later setup, there is a bracket down there under the fpr that has mounts for the wiring harness and a fuel line

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Here it is out...

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And then with that out we put in the new bracket- simple enough...bolt it to the studs and then bolt down the two things that came off the other bracket...

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In goes the new fpr...anyone have any idea of torque for the fuel lines? I just tighten them down, but i have no clue if I'm one of those knumbknuckles I'm always bitching about at the shops that just over torque everything...so some guidance here for the future would be good. For now, these are tight and we hope it doesn't leak or we will have a fire.

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So here is a little guy that is part of the old setup. But the new has a completely different hose-

This goes to the side of the throttle body...

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This is the hose in the car that goes to the side of the newer throttle body...

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So basically the hose in the car had to be cut to meet up with the end of the old hose. You see at the end of the old hose there is a step-down fitting. So that worked out well. Snip snip and all good...

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So here we are...ready?

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And in the left half goes...

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But nooooooooo....it has to come back out.

So there was the little issue of getting the throttle cable gromit into the bracket. That bracket is bolted to the back side of the throttle body- so in a blind very fiddly manner, i unbolted that from the back of the throttle body and took everything back out. Then used the string trick and got that sorted - a little dawn dishwashing liquid helps as a lubricant-

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And then with that sorted- that left half went back in, that bracket rebolted to the throttle body, and then i started on vac lines and oil breather , plugs, routing wires, etc...

And....

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I know this is stupid. So do not reply and say "dude, that was stupid".

Sometimes, however, stupid is the funnest way to be...and so therefore...I painted the alternator housing red.

"If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good"
Dr. Seuss

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I kinda like it. I'm the only one that will ever see it - and I'm sure it'll now not be accepted as a core, but it's pretty.

So on to the reassembly. Now that the correct size bearings have arrived. Keep in mind, i did not have to check the diodes on this alternator- it was easily pumping out 14 volts prior. The bearings had a ton of play when i took it out, so that's the reason for the rebuild. I'm not much of an electrician, so at the point when the unit is really failing, i may be sol and have to swap for a new one. So this rebuild is just bearings, tolerance cup and voltage regulator- but i thew my old voltage regulator back in. ( i have another alternator sitting in a box that needs a rebuild, so I'll use my extra bearings and regulator for that one.

Anyway- aside from all that and those words- the only other thing to mention is it would be a good idea to either machine the slip rings or to solder new slip rings on and machine those. But again- this isn't a full rebuild. This is the rebuild 99% of us should be doing when we think we need a rebuild. Aka- the easy way.

So here we go:

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Press in the tolerance cup. This should press in with your fingers.

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Then toss in the rectifier plate- five screws hold that to the back half of the housing. I replaced my screws with new stainless.

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Now put that aside and press the bearings onto your armature...use the spacers that came off w the bearings to lend a hand- and a deep well socket maybe for a press tool. We aren't using a lot of force here. When you press- you are only pressing the inner bearing race - never hammer on a bearing, and always stop when you reach the end. Don't force anything. It's a bearing, it's only your friend if you treat it well.

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Don't forget the retaining plate behind the larger bearing- orient it correctly.

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Then insert the armature into the front half of the housing and screw in the retaining plate.

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And now we are going to complete the halves...this can be a bad marriage or a good marriage - it's up to you. If it's a bad marriage, there will be no screwing.

Allow me to explain...this will only make sense if you are trying to put these together...the screws that hold the two halves together have to go all the way through and you have to orient the stator to allow for this.

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And now we can screw the two halves together.
I swapped out the oem Phillips head bolts for Allen bolts. Unfortunately the bolts i bought from McMaster didn't have enough thread, so out came the threading tools...and new threads were cut.

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So in they went and i worked my way around the bolts one at a time, couple turns at a time, until the two halves were a happy marriage. I was going to make another screwing joke here, but i spared you. Maybe thank me later.

So then just add the do-dads to the back of the unit. Anything that needs to ground to the housing, make sure to scrape the paint off if you did something silly like paint the housing...

And so here we have the finished product...

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Tomorrow my fan arrives. The fan housing is still soaking in stripper- it's been weeks. Way too cold for stripper to work well. So it's taking forever. So once that is done and i paint the housing and the fan, I'm ready to finish the reassembly. And then we start it up and see if it'll run. I'm hoping that i don't have any gas leaks after replacing the fuel filter and the fuel pressure regulator- how tight do those fittings need to be?

looks good red.

Dunno Rob... you might be a little short on detail with the alternator refurb :roflmao:. Another task well-documented, thanks!

Thanks Rob for another detailed report. Just a suggestion when you are in the alternate universe and start a thread on intake madness, why not separate each topic into their own heading so lazy soles like me can find things easier.

Cheers

Astounding level of detail. When I retire, I would like to aspire to be like Rob. This keeps my weekends interesting.

Fair point...I'm still in the intake madness mode...and in this case the alternator is out because of that...so it just happened because of the bad bearings i found once it was out.

This happened during suspension madness too- most of that thread has nothing to do with suspensions...lol.