Notices
964 Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Intake madness. Teardown begins....

 
Old 09-02-2018, 08:00 PM
  #181  
wallra
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 356
Default

I didn't mean to make you get upset. I only saw the one switch on the intake your doing. when my idle switch wasn't set right I got a check engine light and the Idle was hunting. It brings the timing down to zero at idle. sorry to reply.
wallra is offline  
Old 09-02-2018, 08:11 PM
  #182  
Goughary
Super User
Thread Starter
 
Goughary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: fairfield, CT
Posts: 3,726
Default

I hope i didn't sound upset. Not at all. I enjoy all the commentary...so no worries....I'm glad you all are following and participating. So if when i respond i sound snatchy...I'm just sitting here typing and throwing stuff out into the wind...



I can't wait to see your car btw...one of these days we will find some time to get the entire 964 special interest group together. I've been almost entirely out of commission for shows and such this summer w the job and the new baby. Maybe at caffeine and carburetors in new Canaan if they have another this fall...
Goughary is online now  
Old 09-02-2018, 08:19 PM
  #183  
Goughary
Super User
Thread Starter
 
Goughary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: fairfield, CT
Posts: 3,726
Default

I had a little problem going on in my head...sometimes these little details kill me.

Remember this?

Name:  photo653.jpg
Views: 695
Size:  652.1 KB

I'm still working on this one. Need to finish the prep on the manifold before the emblem can be glued. But....

The emblem is from a 356. So it's not quite right for a 964. The "C" is all wrong.

On the rear decklid, we see this:

Name:  photo550.jpg
Views: 679
Size:  250.8 KB

Don't judge- the car is dirty.

Anyway...when i lift the hood, seeing this would kill me:

Name:  photo226.jpg
Views: 710
Size:  965.3 KB

It's just all wrong. So it needed to be modified to be juuuuuuuust right.....

Name:  photo588.jpg
Views: 715
Size:  1.16 MB

Out came the dremel and the jewelers files...a little sand paper at the end. And 356 becomes 964...or at least close enough to it.

Now i feel a little better. And can proceed.
Goughary is online now  
Old 09-02-2018, 08:55 PM
  #184  
jonathant
User
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 74
Default Emblem details?

Goughary that emblem-on-intake looks spectacular. What emblem are you using? 356 clearly but is that the usual plastic tail emblem or were you able to locate a metal one?

This intake rebuild is going onto my winter project list for sure.
jonathant is offline  
Old 09-02-2018, 09:11 PM
  #185  
Goughary
Super User
Thread Starter
 
Goughary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: fairfield, CT
Posts: 3,726
Default

The 356 had a large one and a small one. This is the small. It's a vintage metal one. I picked it up a long time ago for nothing. These have two pins on the back, and on this one, both pins were broken, so for a resto it was useless. I always figured I'd come across somewhere to use it...lol...and now i know!

But. It really had to either be modified, or i was going to have to buy the large 356 badge for the hood as well...but then i was going to have to make a 4 out of a 993 Carrera 4 decklid badge. Cuz the 993 Carrera badge is closer in size to the large 356 badge.

All that said. He typeface for the badge on our car is correct for the period. The 356 typeface is just wrong on all levels for a 90s car.

If anyone wants a 356 large or small badge, they are available new for 125 dollars approx at stoddard and many others. They are all gold, but that can be stripped.
Goughary is online now  
Old 09-02-2018, 09:24 PM
  #186  
jonathant
User
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 74
Default Emblem details

Cool, thanks.

If you can find a metal “3.6” you might consider that for the intakes as opposed to a “4”... after all the motor is neither C2 nor C4; the displacement marking would make a nice addition - e.g. “Carrera 3.6”

Great style point wither way though; the attention to detail is admirable.
jonathant is offline  
Old 09-02-2018, 09:41 PM
  #187  
Goughary
Super User
Thread Starter
 
Goughary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: fairfield, CT
Posts: 3,726
Default

Anyone ever binge watch a season of Rocky and Bullwinkle?


And now here's something we hope you'll really like!

Name:  photo581.jpg
Views: 711
Size:  1.17 MB

Name:  photo574.jpg
Views: 702
Size:  1.01 MB

This thing is seized solid. Exactly what most of the ones i have ever serviced are. Again- I'm amazed at how much gunk is traveling through this intake. And how much it crud's up everything. This is not from over filling the oil. This is normal use. And it is telling us that not only do the vac valves and isv, etc need regular service and cleaning, but that the Porsche engineers didn't expect it. For what ever reason.

Anyway. I could have just shot some carb cleaner in there, which works fine. And that would have loosened it up and it would have likely functioned fine.

But...since it's an extra, and I've never had an extra.....i decided to take it apart.

We had a thread recently discussing the isv, and if one got dissected there and if this is redundant...my apologies. But I'm fascinated. So let's dig in...

First - how the hell does it come apart???

I ground down the peens on the plastic side, where the plug is. And that cap was not coming off. At all.

So i thought "what better way to get this apart than brute force?"....couldn't think of one. So i got a punch and a hammer, and put the punch on the shaft on the opposite side, and whacked it out. Pop. All good. Apart it is.

Name:  photo986.jpg
Views: 683
Size:  750.2 KB

Turns out, the shaft is press fit into the tail end of the housing. Easy enough. It stays put, and everything inside rotates on the stationary shaft.

From there, it's three small screws and the whole thing comes apart.

Name:  photo236.jpg
Views: 682
Size:  579.6 KB

Name:  photo675.jpg
Views: 678
Size:  425.8 KB

And then not to belabor anything, cuz I've done no work on it yet. Here are individual pics of the components:

Name:  photo593.jpg
Views: 691
Size:  941.8 KB

Name:  photo16.jpg
Views: 680
Size:  971.5 KB

Name:  photo186.jpg
Views: 695
Size:  1.09 MB

Name:  photo137.jpg
Views: 681
Size:  1.21 MB

Name:  photo843.jpg
Views: 678
Size:  973.3 KB

Name:  photo306.jpg
Views: 684
Size:  1.03 MB

Now having had one apart...two observations...

1. Likely one should not be using carb cleaner or brake cleaner in there. It's electrical and has an electro magnetic motor that runs the flap back and forth. So maybe electronics cleaner is a better way to clean it out.

2. This should be disassembled to clean properly, the bearings should be cleaned and greased, and so i will be modifying this to be openable.
Goughary is online now  
Old 09-02-2018, 09:44 PM
  #188  
Goughary
Super User
Thread Starter
 
Goughary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: fairfield, CT
Posts: 3,726
Default

Originally Posted by jonathant
Cool, thanks.

If you can find a metal “3.6” you might consider that for the intakes as opposed to a “4”... after all the motor is neither C2 nor C4; the displacement marking would make a nice addition - e.g. “Carrera 3.6”

Great style point wither way though; the attention to detail is admirable.
Thanks!

They never made numbers this small. And the Carrera actually is just the right length for that spot on the passenger side intake manifold. So the plan right now is just the one badge on the one side.

I do all this stuff in my head...and just modify the ideas as i go. So in the end...we will see how it comes out at the unveil!
Goughary is online now  
Old 09-02-2018, 11:25 PM
  #189  
Goughary
Super User
Thread Starter
 
Goughary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: fairfield, CT
Posts: 3,726
Default

And one last thing for the day. I refitted the tangled web of now Kevlar lined hoses. The one up top that faces north, will later be turned to face south and it fits itself through the bend in the left hand side....like tying your shoes. What a mess.

Name:  photo147.jpg
Views: 679
Size:  1,009.7 KB

None of the Oetiker clamps are tightened yet. That all happens later when I'm ready to fit the whole thing together.

When i first tore this apart, it didn't occur to me how simple and brilliant the design actually is. Once you understand the mess, it's pretty simple. This whole unit uses oetiker clamps for a reason. It's a unit. Where it attaches to everything else, the manifold on the driver side for banks 1-3, and the throttle body, etc, they used hose clamps. You un-do a couple clamps and the unit comes out. Can then be serviced, and knitted and knotted back together and reinstalled as a lump of a unit again. Easy enough.
Goughary is online now  
Old 09-03-2018, 04:19 PM
  #190  
Goughary
Super User
Thread Starter
 
Goughary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: fairfield, CT
Posts: 3,726
Default

A little ISV work today. Primed and painted.

Name:  photo154.jpg
Views: 675
Size:  1.12 MB

I don't have an after picture just yet. But it came out nice. It's kind of a stupid idea to paint this. It's held on, in the early intake, with a hose clamp. So the paint is just going to get scratched up.

Anyway. I cleaned the internals today and properly greased the bearings. I'd like to make the cap removable so next service i can just take it apart. So I'm thinking rather than peening, I'll throw a couple dots of jb weld on it. Easy enough to remove the jb when cleaning becomes necessary after a few years.
Goughary is online now  
Old 09-03-2018, 07:40 PM
  #191  
Goughary
Super User
Thread Starter
 
Goughary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: fairfield, CT
Posts: 3,726
Default

Ok. We are ready to rebuild.

Need to let the paint cure and harden for a bit prior. I wonder if i can get the inside clean and grease free enough to ceramic coat the inside. Might help prevent gumming up....

Name:  photo818.jpg
Views: 680
Size:  1.11 MB
Goughary is online now  
Old 09-03-2018, 07:56 PM
  #192  
Goughary
Super User
Thread Starter
 
Goughary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: fairfield, CT
Posts: 3,726
Default

Remember back in the beginning - when i was cleaning stuff and i gave up on the intake sleeves?

They were all crusty, and i couldn't get that stuff off to save my life.

I later bought a new set. Those were hard...so in they went to a bath of wintergreen oil and alcohol. They came out huge and way over expanded. (They have since shrink back down to the correct size). But in the meantime, not wanting to buy yet another set of seals, i got to thinking. I have another set of seals from another intake that i have...and they are crusty too. So after cleaning and degreasing - they look like this:

Name:  photo659.jpg
Views: 672
Size:  731.0 KB

Name:  photo821.jpg
Views: 669
Size:  790.3 KB

Name:  photo286.jpg
Views: 655
Size:  675.8 KB

Name:  photo777.jpg
Views: 655
Size:  586.0 KB

This crusty stuff is hard and feels like cement. And it's bonded to the rubber somehow. Now, since the aluminum on the throttle body is corroded and missing chunks that look to be the exact opposite shape of the crusty nasty on my rubber seals...I'm guessing it's corrosion. Basically aluminum rust.

Sooooo, what is the best way to get rid of rust and not eat through the substrate???

CLR.

Name:  photo938.jpg
Views: 669
Size:  920.5 KB

Well maybe not "the best"...but i happen to have some around. So it's worth a shot, right?

I had tried, all kinds of chemicals, then Dawn dishwashing liquid, wd40, and spray 9. Nothing would touch this stuff.

Until i has the brilliant idea to try something made for the task.

Name:  photo953.jpg
Views: 667
Size:  511.0 KB

Name:  photo500.jpg
Views: 657
Size:  768.0 KB

Name:  photo385.jpg
Views: 667
Size:  754.6 KB

Name:  photo222.jpg
Views: 664
Size:  731.4 KB

Hope those show well. I'm amazed. It took a while, and periodically i rubbed them with a toothbrush. Now that they are dry, i can see on a couple of them that there are still some spots. So I'll hit those again. But wow.

Pretty much everyone with an aluminum throttle body is going to have this problem. The plastic ones should have zero of this kind of thing.

Chalk one up for why plastic....
Goughary is online now  
Old 09-04-2018, 10:33 PM
  #193  
Goughary
Super User
Thread Starter
 
Goughary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: fairfield, CT
Posts: 3,726
Default

Back to the isv. Let's see if i can make this clear....

On disassembly, there is no reason to take out the shaft, and effectively, your job will be easier if you don't. There is an E clip at the top of the shaft. If you can't get the plastic cap off after grinding away the peens, the only way is going to be to press out the shaft like i did. But if you get the cap to wiggle out- it's only in there with an oring and it's plugged onto the spool...so it will come out if you work at it. Wiggle wiggle...

Anyway. Once the cap is off, take the e clip off, then the spacers. Then the spring straight up.

The rest is pressed in. So turn the unit with the open side facing toward the bench and slam it into the bench a couple times. The spindle that rotates in the shaft is heavy. That will act as a battering ram and pop the silver gear looking thing out. Mark that and it's orientation prior to this step. You'll have to reassemble it in the exact same place as before.

Once it's all out. Clean it up. Regrease the bearings- not easy cuz they are tiny needle bearings...and then grind down the peens and anythjng that will impede reassembly.

Make sure you know the order of the pieces going back in. Spacers and all.

Name:  photo431.jpg
Views: 641
Size:  856.0 KB

Then installl the spindle and this thing:

Name:  photo768.jpg
Views: 639
Size:  910.7 KB

Spindle first , then that thing and then press with a 27mm socket

Name:  photo319.jpg
Views: 637
Size:  839.3 KB

Name:  photo522.jpg
Views: 629
Size:  874.1 KB

And now you should be here:

Name:  photo589.jpg
Views: 630
Size:  652.6 KB

Name:  photo170.jpg
Views: 644
Size:  1.05 MB

Then screw the silver gear looking thing to the top of the spool, assuming you took it apart- you didn't need to...

Name:  photo515.jpg
Views: 630
Size:  969.0 KB

Name:  photo760.jpg
Views: 628
Size:  951.7 KB

Slip that into the unit oriented as it has been. Press carefully with a small socket toward the center. Make sure you are going in nice and straight. Then install the spring and the spacers and the e clip.

Name:  photo623.jpg
Views: 639
Size:  826.4 KB

Name:  photo663.jpg
Views: 631
Size:  649.9 KB

And you are ready to put the cap back on. The cap is not under pressure. And the e clip holds all the important stuff from moving. So I'm going to put a bead of silicone on the rim once the cap is installed, to hold it in place, and all done. Serviceable ISV.

Name:  photo469.jpg
Views: 632
Size:  999.5 KB
Goughary is online now  
Old 09-05-2018, 08:44 AM
  #194  
Rocket Rob
IHI KING!
Rennlist Member

 
Rocket Rob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Nashua, New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 12,600
Default

Rob - Incredible thread. Keep it going.
Rocket Rob is offline  
Old 09-05-2018, 09:55 AM
  #195  
Deserion
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Deserion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Orange Park, FL
Posts: 475
Default

I might start on the ISV project this weekend, since I have an old one handy.
Deserion is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Intake madness. Teardown begins....


Contact Us - About Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: