cobalt

Thanks I appreciate it.

Ran into some issues. Apparently the Haltech is far more sensitive than the old motronic. Apparently two of my beru connectors cylinders 5 & 6 exhaust side were damaged and were arching internally causing a lean mixture in the right bank. Was frustrating but figured it out and I am not taking any chances with others having cracks so new wires go in today then on the dyno for final tuning. I have to compare the chart with what we have I don't think we are far off and I suspect the higher then expected temps come from the lean mix we were seeing.

Lorenfb

So what benefits have you assumed will result from using a COP system?

wallra

no more distributor belt to think about, no plug wires cap rotor air flow meter I just thought it would make it more reliable . just my thought.

-nick

Just read through this. A couple thoughts- high temperatures and pinging could just as likely be from too much ignition. Cams+headers should make the air pump more efficient at higher rpm. Less exhaust reversion and more air packed in will in turn need less timing. In theory I'd still install a wideband, they're pretty cheap. But ignoring the culprit, the knock sensors should be kicking in and pulling timing before you hear any audible pinging. That bit confuses me. Are you able to narrow down the pinging to a particular rpm and load?

I'm a motronic fan, but it has a real limitation in that it switches to the wide open throttle maps when the afm door is maxed out. And that happens at less and less throttle as you add power to the motor. So you could be at 80% throttle at high rpm and motronic is outputting the same fuel and timing as 100% throttle. Not sure if Steve W has a clever trick for that. That's above my disassembly ability!

Lorenfb

Not really. There's still control of the fuel & ignition maps at WOT, i.e. fuel & ignition values can be set at various RPM levels.

Lorenfb

Typically with engine management systems utilizing COPs, the failure rate versus a distributor/rotor/wires/single coil is higher. The only major benefit of the COPs is the ability to fully charge
the ignition coil at higher RPMs. With the Porsche turbo, there's no distributor belt, i.e. a single plug. The use of COPs doesn't, by itself, eliminate an AFM.

wallra

I'm using stand alone and also controlling fuel not just ignition. coils have come a long way and failure rate is way down from what it use to be. I've seen a lot of change for the last 30 years I'm been a mechanic working on cars and running my own shop. I wanted to make my car Marden this is why I went this route. I did it because I could and want just to see how much better I could make it run.

Lorenfb

Conventional ignition coils have a very low failure rate. The COP failure rate has improved, but not to the level of a conventional single coil.

-nick

I'm not sure what you're replying to? When the afm is wide open, motronic switches to the wot maps regardless of whether the wot microswitch is activated. At least that's what I'm finding. If the engine VE increases well enough to push the afm wide open at only 80% throttle/load (let's assume they're the same for the example), and motronic is feeding 100% throttle/load fuel, then you're going rich. There's also an argument for needing timing differences too. This is where our motronic's logic falls flat.

Even in a 100% stock engine, the afm can max out at part throttle.

Lorenfb

DME ECM engines with AFMs have three map matrices (states); a one dimensional idle map (idle switch closed), a two dimensional map (AFM input, idle/WOT switches open,
load/ignition/fuel input variables), and a WOT switch mode (one dimensional with variables fuel & ignition). RPM is the independent variable in the three states.The DME ECM
only switches to the one dimensional WOT map when that switch closes. There's still the max value (~ 4.5 volts) of the AFM as a map input. One can still tweak the fuel & ignition
values based on dyno results for that condition. Obviously, not the ideal condition input for a turbo, but Porsche used an AFM on the 944 turbo with success.

Remember, the AFM is just a load measurement input. Turbo engines have been designed as an Alpha-N system with just a TPS input without a AFM or MAF input.

cobalt

Still working on getting mine where we want it. The wires were the culprit and I am a bit miffed as they were supposed to be new when installed but clearly were not.

Once we changed out the wires we started the tuning process which takes far more time then I expected. Just going through the initial steps and we haven't even started the tune yet. We are already seeing numbers at 3750 rpm of 415 rwtq and 325 rwhp. This is up from the protomotive tuned DME which our prior dyno results showed 265 rwtq and 195 rwhp. We are already seeing more torque than was produced at WOT and much earlier. Hopefully we will be finished today with charts showing what it is putting down. IMO the turbos are too large for what I want and will probably be addressed this winter.

I find this interesting as it is on a mustang dyno and when I tested my other cars on a dynapack I saw numbers about 20-25% higher than they showed on this dyno. Can only imagine what a dynapack would show.

Anyone have info on max temps the heads should see?

Spyerx

cobalt

Learning that the hard way. Figured it would be done but conditions are just to uncomfortable. Even with good ventilation and dozens of fans drawing in fresh air the high humidity is just killer so we are going to wait until the conditions change to finish. Hopefully the weather will improve but I am not pushing for the glen this next week.

We have made some great progress adjusting the timing has made for a better curve but I have other things to do so I will pick this back up in a few weeks and finish up before the next event.

A fun shot during the timing process.

18T_BT

What turbos are you running?

cobalt

They are inexpensive E-motor. Made in China AFAIK. I purchased the engine and tranny complete. It came with spare turbos so I will use them until I need to buy new and then I will probably re plumb the entire car and go with a garrett but for now these do the job.