Issues running 951 intercooler "in reverse"?
#1
Rainman
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Issues running 951 intercooler "in reverse"?
Anybody know of or have tried reversing the flow direction of the 944 intercooler, presumably with a non-stock intake manifold arrangement?
Believe I had read something somewhere that the flow through the core in opposite direction was inferior to that of the stock direction...but can't find it now of course.
I would think the core doesn't matter but the tanks are what affect the directional flow quality...anyone?
Believe I had read something somewhere that the flow through the core in opposite direction was inferior to that of the stock direction...but can't find it now of course.
I would think the core doesn't matter but the tanks are what affect the directional flow quality...anyone?
#2
Addict
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Probably end tank shapes has something to do with directional flow..
#3
Rainman
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You usually have parts laying around...
If you laid the 951 intercooler on a table, are the inlet/outlet sticking out at an angle, relative to the table, or are they more or less parallel to the table?
If reasonably parallel could just flip the intercooler "upside down"
If you laid the 951 intercooler on a table, are the inlet/outlet sticking out at an angle, relative to the table, or are they more or less parallel to the table?
If reasonably parallel could just flip the intercooler "upside down"
#4
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You could always have the end tanks modified, shameless plug for Ak951.... local buddy here in TX, who has done many with proven dyno gains. The fact that you can modify them to manipulate the engine's breathing efficiency points to end tank design as a sensitive factor, so chances are that reversing it will have an impact to some degree or another.
#5
Addict
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Will try to find ic and put it on a table
I'll modify mine to water cooler and make multi pass compartments in end tanks. That should be fun
I'll modify mine to water cooler and make multi pass compartments in end tanks. That should be fun
#6
Drifting
LR states the stock intercooler flows 208"cfm, their stage one flows 248 cfm. And if their stage two flow even more then that would be the intercooler that I would recommend if reversing air flow if going that route. I remember seeing what your talking about spencer but I forgot where. I think it was LR brothers or Albert that pointed the flow characteristics of reversing the stock intercooler, I think it was because Tim at SFR I believe was selling an intake manifold that reversed the stock intercooler flow. So the other vendors pointed out the negative effect of reversing airflow. I think the stock flowed like 10% less in reverse due to the end tank design from what I remember.
#7
Rainman
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LR states the stock intercooler flows 208"cfm, their stage one flows 248 cfm. And if their stage two flow even more then that would be the intercooler that I would recommend if reversing air flow if going that route. I remember seeing what your talking about spencer but I forgot where. I think it was LR brothers or Albert that pointed the flow characteristics of reversing the stock intercooler, I think it was because Tim at SFR I believe was selling an intake manifold that reversed the stock intercooler flow. So the other vendors pointed out the negative effect of reversing airflow. I think the stock flowed like 10% less in reverse due to the end tank design from what I remember.
i know the 951 IC fits under my 951 nose..lol, so it's an option.
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#8
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I ran the stock intercooler with reverse flow with the supercharger setup for a few years. In another thread we discussed whether running it that way contributed to flow restrictions. If you click on the attachment in the post below you will see some data I collected in a track session that shows pressure drop and temperature drop before and after the intercooler. The stock intercooler seemed to be working quite well given its limitations, but I never ran it the conventional way around to do a direct comparison.
Posted this data on Eric's Pressure Drop thread, but wanted to discuss how this relates to my car specifically. This is a sample of pressure drop and temperature drop logged during a track test. The only caveat is it was a short session because I got black flagged for excessive noise. In longer sessions I notice my IATS get a lot higher. I fitted a second map sensor and air temp sensor in the out pipe from the supercharger which is before the intercooler.
Attachment 686305
The results are interesting.
First of all I can now quantify how much the supercharger heats up the intake air. Although I should have installed another temperature sensor pre supercharger to be completely accurate, based on ambient temperatures of 25 to 30 C during the track session, the supercharger is adding up to 100 degrees C of temperature which is a lot, but I don't know how that compares to a turbo?
Secondly the intercooler is doing a really good job of pulling the temperature down, much more than I expected. The price to pay is quite a lot of pressure drop, up to 4psi by the time pre-intercooler boost reaches 12psi above 6000rpm. Seems like a lot of pressure drop at only mild boost levels and I imagine it would just get worse if boost was higher.
I am assuming this means that the intercooler is just too small for the amount of air I am flowing. I have read specs on intercoolers which claim only 1 or 2 psi of pressure drop at full flows over 1000cfm. In theory some of these intercoolers should be able to flow all the air I am pumping with less than 1psi pressure drop. The question is will I still get the same level of decent temperature drop with one of these bigger cores?
Attachment 686305
The results are interesting.
First of all I can now quantify how much the supercharger heats up the intake air. Although I should have installed another temperature sensor pre supercharger to be completely accurate, based on ambient temperatures of 25 to 30 C during the track session, the supercharger is adding up to 100 degrees C of temperature which is a lot, but I don't know how that compares to a turbo?
Secondly the intercooler is doing a really good job of pulling the temperature down, much more than I expected. The price to pay is quite a lot of pressure drop, up to 4psi by the time pre-intercooler boost reaches 12psi above 6000rpm. Seems like a lot of pressure drop at only mild boost levels and I imagine it would just get worse if boost was higher.
I am assuming this means that the intercooler is just too small for the amount of air I am flowing. I have read specs on intercoolers which claim only 1 or 2 psi of pressure drop at full flows over 1000cfm. In theory some of these intercoolers should be able to flow all the air I am pumping with less than 1psi pressure drop. The question is will I still get the same level of decent temperature drop with one of these bigger cores?
#11
Rainman
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I ran the stock intercooler with reverse flow with the supercharger setup for a few years. In another thread we discussed whether running it that way contributed to flow restrictions. If you click on the attachment in the post below you will see some data I collected in a track session that shows pressure drop and temperature drop before and after the intercooler. The stock intercooler seemed to be working quite well given its limitations, but I never ran it the conventional way around to do a direct comparison.
~40C going into the engine on a 30C day is very good IMO!
pressure drop not desireable but thats why they make smaller pulleys...
i do wonder how the orientation of flow affects things.
some old common wisdom seemed to indicate that the "restrictive skinny IC inlet side" was so shaped to promote even air distribution at the entrance to the IC core which makes sense to me looking at it (going from round tube to tall/skinny more rectangular profile and making a 135 bend)