David Ewell

Some info about the build.

Bored and Sleeved 3.0l S2 block- Darton Dry Sleeves
Pauter Rods
106mm Arais pistons
Stock 3l crank
Ported/Polished 2.7l Head + all new valves, race springs, ti retainers
Web cam, New Hyd lifters
crank scraper
SFR 1.5 intercooler
LR 3x oil cooler
LR Turbo Oil fitler
Rogue M-Tune with #80 injectors-Currently 2.5l Tune
high volume Bosch FP
3 bar FPR
Custom Billet FR
58/58 Precision Turbo
Spec Push Clutch w/Semi Metallic disk. Note Bought this before Jan-2017. Prior the Flywheel was an 1/8" larger in dia. This caused a few issues with the way the reference senor operated. The Spec FW has 3 scallops (to lighten it) that cause interference in the signal.
Stock intake manifold
Build done by SFR

Hopefully that is enough info on the build to give you all an idea on how to help solve my issues.

Here is what I do know and or have verified.
Compression-150psi all cylinders
Fuel pressure at the rail.
spark
Timing Checked and rechecked
Reference Sensor checked out good
Raised the Reference sensor up per LR fix instructions for the larger FW. Could only get the setscrew trigger 3/16" above the FW. Any higher and it starts rubbing the bell housing.
Speed Sensor check out good
Swapped both sensors out with know good ones from a running donor car
Measured ohms and volts to the DME for both sensors. All the numbers looked good
DME relay checked out good. Also swapped out one from the donor car
Tach bounce while cranking
Bench test all injectors at the fuel rail. Applied 12vdc to each and all function.
Also cranked the engine with the fuel rail and observed the output of the injectors. Very very fine mist of fuel coming thru. Not enough to fire the engine.
Measured voltage at the injectors while cranking. Showed 12vdc on all 4 injectors.

I know I need a new tune from LR. Tune #3. My question is should it fire and run even with a 2.5l tune #1. if so I need to pursue other avenues. I keep going back to the FW issue, but that one alone is going the require removing the transaxle to swap in my stock FW and test it.

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated, Thanks David

Humboldtgrin

Can you smell gas? Let me remove a little there. I wrote before reading all. Do you have spark at each plug(rotor screws missing)? I run an aluminum flywheel and mine ran fine. And it's not good to run that tune on your engine for the start up and break in on a fresh engine if not for hat engine, buy the right tune before proceeding or get a stand alone.

David Ewell

I had a discussion with Mike at LR on Thursday, but the tune never came up.
It should of. Just talked about the spec push clutch FW issue. I've emailed Josh at Rogue about my situation, but I know now what has to happen next. The correct Tune. Then we'll go from there.

An aluminum FW shouldn't cause a problem been non-ferrious as is the lightened steel scalloped spec FW.

No gas smell and no gas on the plugs after cranking.

Thanks for you input.

V2Rocket

Try pulling the vac line off the FPR and then cranking to try to start.
Reasoning - I recall the M-tune adds a vacuum (MAP) input to the tuning tables - if this takes into account a VE table your engine is pulling too much air (3.1 vs 2.5L) and it's trying to start lean.
...

odonnell

You really need to be able to see what your ECU is getting as far as sensor signals to go further - otherwise you're swinging in the dark.


Don't take this the wrong way but after all the $$$ on building a sweet motor...you're running 80s Motronic?

David Ewell

I here ya. It's very hard to stop the flow $$$ on these types of projects. When do you say when or enough is enough?

V2Rocket

when your wallet needs a tourniquet...

Humboldtgrin

LMAO!! Mine done bled out and I'm just now at the engine bay. I should have used a wallet tourniquet.

951Dreams

I keep telling myself "It's 30 years old, it's 30 years old!" But it seems there's something new at every turn! I'm going to have about 1.5K in parts/upgrades/restoring here soon... in 2.5 months since I bought the car.... and that's not including any of the paint/body work it needs!!!! Or the fuchs that need restored!

(Ok, $500 of that will be stereo and keyless entry/alarm, but still!)

This is on a car that I would consider a solid "Good" condition car.... don't even get me started on the "fair/poor" 87!

rlm328

Just figure how much you have in the engine now, and then how much a rebuild will cost if your ECU doesn't cut it. There are several stand alone systems out there that are under $3K, with tune. I know its not what want to hear but............

odonnell

Megasquirt and VEMS are both under $1500 all-in if you're smart about it

David Ewell

I've been watching VEMS for about a year now and it seems to be gaining popularity. It's only been 2 short years since I purchased the M-Tune and 18 months of that was with the engine out . I do how ever have a person lined up to buy the M-Tune if I decide to go Stand alone.

Auto_Werks 3.6

Some of these guys are still in the process of learning that if you don't have the right skill set, a stand alone is not a big help. Unfortunately the VEMS in particular reuses the worst 30 year old part on the car... the wiring harness. Not that I've heard anything bad about VEMS, but you will be fine with the m-tune once you get the right tune and start heading in the right direction with it. Fully tunable m-tune is every bit as much of a stand alone as mega squirt, only it was setup by someone who really knows these cars and spent some time on it. Again, I have nothing against the peep vems, but I don't think you're doing yourself a dis service with the m-tune either.

Auto_Werks 3.6

By the way... the 7th (most clockwise) position on the FQS is plus 16% global fuel.... you've increased the dis placement a little over 20%, but it might be enough to get it to light up for a quick test

David Ewell

Update: Checked all the injector plugs under the rubber boots and found the problem. 31yrs of heat, twisting, pulling and as you can see in the pics I had at least 2 with direct shorts. Engine fired right up after I repaired the wires. Still have 2.5l tune in and was keeping a very close eye on the oil pressure which never came up. Shut it down about 15 seconds after startup due to no oil pressure.
Removed the filter and no oil had made it up to that point.
Will check OPRV tonight to make sure its in working order.
Is this common for a new build not to prime?
Going to try some things I've read on line to prime and or pressurize the oil system.
Will have the 3.0l tune here today along with a new injector harness.