After market ECU and high impedence injectors
10-26-2003, 02:01 AM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
After market ECU and high impedence injectors
Hello,
I have the Link 2 which can run either high or low impedence injectors. If the injectors are under 8-9 ohms, I have resistors. If thet are above, then I dont. Cant I just run high impedence injectors and not have to buy resistors with this setup? Would there be any other issues?
Andrew
I have the Link 2 which can run either high or low impedence injectors. If the injectors are under 8-9 ohms, I have resistors. If thet are above, then I dont. Cant I just run high impedence injectors and not have to buy resistors with this setup? Would there be any other issues?
Andrew
10-26-2003, 11:32 AM
#2
Rennlist Member
Andrew
According to Link USA, they are comfortable with the Link ECUs running down to the stock 5ohm injectors with no ballasts and would recommend doing so, even though the literature says 9 ohm is the lowest impedance. My link 2 is being prepared with a 4 way ballast pack that can be plugged in for injectors lower then stock (5 ohm), which means most aftermarket delphis, siemens, bosch and new high flow accel, and bypassed for all other high imp saturated types.
If I remember correctly you are in aus?? Maybe you can call Link there and get the lowdown from them also to compare notes. One question I have that remains unanswered is will low imp peak and hold injectors work ok on ballasted saturated drive ECU's (as with the link)?? I always though Peak and hold injectors needed a certain current or voltage drive pattern to make them work properly. Not sure if the 951 ECU is curren tor voltage drive for peak and hold.
Most injector sites just talk about matching impendance only implying that the type of current pattern (P&H v Sat) is not an issue.
According to Link USA, they are comfortable with the Link ECUs running down to the stock 5ohm injectors with no ballasts and would recommend doing so, even though the literature says 9 ohm is the lowest impedance. My link 2 is being prepared with a 4 way ballast pack that can be plugged in for injectors lower then stock (5 ohm), which means most aftermarket delphis, siemens, bosch and new high flow accel, and bypassed for all other high imp saturated types.
If I remember correctly you are in aus?? Maybe you can call Link there and get the lowdown from them also to compare notes. One question I have that remains unanswered is will low imp peak and hold injectors work ok on ballasted saturated drive ECU's (as with the link)?? I always though Peak and hold injectors needed a certain current or voltage drive pattern to make them work properly. Not sure if the 951 ECU is curren tor voltage drive for peak and hold.
Most injector sites just talk about matching impendance only implying that the type of current pattern (P&H v Sat) is not an issue.
Last edited by B951S; 10-26-2003 at 12:35 PM.
10-26-2003, 11:40 AM
#3
Race Director
Thread Starter
Racetronix is selling some 12 ohm injectors... so I could just plug those in? I am in NZ, home of Link, actually, I talked to the owner today at the drags! I should be asking his tech gurus...
10-26-2003, 12:55 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
http://www.acceleronics.com/
Check this out, with this you can run proper peak and hold injectors. I might try this with my Link 2, sounds like a very good product.
Check this out, with this you can run proper peak and hold injectors. I might try this with my Link 2, sounds like a very good product.
Last edited by B951S; 10-26-2003 at 01:53 PM.
10-26-2003, 03:30 PM
#6
Race Director
Thread Starter
57 pound is good for over 400hp though... should be big enough. So whats the advantage with peak and hold? And is the racetronix versions not?
10-26-2003, 07:44 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
The reply I got back from acceltronix is attached..
"running low-z injectors with a high-z driver and a current- limiting resistors defeats the whole purpose of low-z. The 95# injectors in my car are very streetable because the peak and hold circuit yanks them open as fast as the original 24# high-z stockers. I'm using literally the stock injector offset versus voltage curve to run the 95's. The only ECU tuning I had to do was to change the injector constant from 24 to 95.
The VersaFueler opens them with 4 amps of current. The ballast resistor cuts that down to 2 amps at best, and probably less. If you use a smaller resistor in order to bump the opening current to, say, 3 amps, then the injectors will be pulling 3 amps for the entire pulsewidth. You run the risk of literally burning out the solenoid coil. The VersaFueler cuts the hold current down to 1 amp, which will keep the injector cooler and prevent coil burnout.
I expect to have a 4 channel box available before the end of the year, but it won't be hugely cheaper than the 8 channel box because many of the costs are independent of the number of channels. I haven't worked up the numbers yet, but it will probably be in the $300 range, +/- $25 or so.
In the meantime the 8 channel box will work just fine with half of the channels idling. The box itself draws very little current. The VersaFueler intercepts the ECU injector drive signal before it gets to the injector
and converts it from on/off to peak/hold. It puts a small load on the ECU so the ECU doesn't think there is an injector fault. More than you'll ever want to know is on the FAQ page: http://www.acceleronics.com click on the FAQ link."
"running low-z injectors with a high-z driver and a current- limiting resistors defeats the whole purpose of low-z. The 95# injectors in my car are very streetable because the peak and hold circuit yanks them open as fast as the original 24# high-z stockers. I'm using literally the stock injector offset versus voltage curve to run the 95's. The only ECU tuning I had to do was to change the injector constant from 24 to 95.
The VersaFueler opens them with 4 amps of current. The ballast resistor cuts that down to 2 amps at best, and probably less. If you use a smaller resistor in order to bump the opening current to, say, 3 amps, then the injectors will be pulling 3 amps for the entire pulsewidth. You run the risk of literally burning out the solenoid coil. The VersaFueler cuts the hold current down to 1 amp, which will keep the injector cooler and prevent coil burnout.
I expect to have a 4 channel box available before the end of the year, but it won't be hugely cheaper than the 8 channel box because many of the costs are independent of the number of channels. I haven't worked up the numbers yet, but it will probably be in the $300 range, +/- $25 or so.
In the meantime the 8 channel box will work just fine with half of the channels idling. The box itself draws very little current. The VersaFueler intercepts the ECU injector drive signal before it gets to the injector
and converts it from on/off to peak/hold. It puts a small load on the ECU so the ECU doesn't think there is an injector fault. More than you'll ever want to know is on the FAQ page: http://www.acceleronics.com click on the FAQ link."
Last edited by B951S; 10-26-2003 at 08:20 PM.
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10-26-2003, 08:16 PM
#8
Be careful here. That's an opinion. Link from my understanding don't recommend running any particular Injector. Its if you have to run a low impedance type, you need to ballast them to save the driver. They certainly have 100's of units out there running low impedance Injectors with ballasts and no problem. I'd call them (link) and have them expain the need.
10-26-2003, 08:19 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
I will do that. From my last conversation though, they said that the current drive is a constant value and is not peak and hold. I will discuss it with them again.
10-26-2003, 09:48 PM
#10
Race Director
Thread Starter
The question is, will saturated injectors be suitable for our application. Seemingly, they will not be, and peak and hold with resistors are needed. I supposed no one does a peak and hold high version? I guess the factory ones are peak and hold low without resistors? Or are they built in the injector?
10-28-2003, 05:45 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
Peak and hold, by definition have to be low impedance in order to draw enough current to open quickly. If you read the FAQ on acceleronics site it will explain. Basically, you can not get a high imendance peak and hold injector. Accel just realeased a 55# high impendance but users will tell you that is feels more sluggish that a peak and hold 55# as indicated by a crappy idle, poor part throttle and general difficulty in getting good fueling at low loads.
The link 1/2 cannot drive in peak and hold mode, only a constant reduced (ballasted) current drive for low impedance injectors. i think Link missed the boat here.
Link WILL tell you that for large injectors, their injector drives are not the best solution. They will also say that they have never really experienced a real issue either.......Personally, If I end up using 72# injectors with my Link 2, I will be using acceleronics system and driving them in peak and hold mode like any decent aftermarket stand alone should do.
At the end of the day, most people convert to stand alone to make more power and use bigger injectors. I really don't understand why link did not use peak and hold drivers
The link 1/2 cannot drive in peak and hold mode, only a constant reduced (ballasted) current drive for low impedance injectors. i think Link missed the boat here.
Link WILL tell you that for large injectors, their injector drives are not the best solution. They will also say that they have never really experienced a real issue either.......Personally, If I end up using 72# injectors with my Link 2, I will be using acceleronics system and driving them in peak and hold mode like any decent aftermarket stand alone should do.
At the end of the day, most people convert to stand alone to make more power and use bigger injectors. I really don't understand why link did not use peak and hold drivers
10-28-2003, 11:57 PM
#13
Three Wheelin'
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check out precision turbo's website for injectors they have a wide selection of injectors in both high and low imp. It's been awhile since I looked but I think they have a 46 or 55 high impedance as their max size in high imp. I agree if I'm gonna switch to standalone I want to be able to use low impedance injectors. That was always the main reason I've used stand alone on past cars I've built.
