968 G50 Gear Swap
04-20-2016, 12:51 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
What transmission does the .87 come from?
04-20-2016, 03:08 AM
#17
Drifting
George are you getting your car ready for the Texas mile? I'll vote for you to go there. What's your calculated top speed now? That is an awsome setup! And great research! Thank you for sharing. Everything you share is pretty awesome, so thank you again and again.
04-20-2016, 12:38 PM
#18
Drifting
Thread Starter
Theoretically is one thing, running over 200mph in a 951 isn't going to happen in mine. VW's test track with a Veyron, sure. I know how planted my 951 feels up to about 180mph - but taking any car over 200mph, the forces created require, in my opinion, wind tunnel testing making sure your splitter, aftermarket 968 wing, etc. can withstand such pressures. Break something going over 200mph - you'll hear folks say at my funeral - "But he died doing what he loved."
04-22-2016, 03:24 AM
#19
Three Wheelin'
I've driven high powered cars with an installed WaveTrac using the CF material. Smoothest LSD I've ever used. You can change the lockup using different friction materials for a track only setup. State of art LSD's with no clutch plates to wear out.
http://www.wavetrac.net/
However, it would not be the best choice for pure racetrack use as it does NOT provide a locking effect during deceleration/braking, which is one of the best attributes of a clutch-type LSD (also, torque-biasing diffs like the WaveTrac or Torsen/Quaife are NOT "limited-slip" diffs, only clutch-type should be described as such). With a true LSD, the rear wheels partially lock together during deceleration, enabling aggressive trail-braking, which is key for a serious track or race car.
I am not disparaging torque-biasing diffs by any stretch, as they certainly have their place. Clutch-type LSDs wear out, and very aggressive LSDs are not the smoothest things. Also, they can induce mid-corner understeer, which may require chassis setup changes to dial out. So, a TBD is ideal for an autocross car or fun street car. But, my car likes the racetrack, so a clutch-type LSD it is!
BTW, I dream of a 968 6-speed for street use, but the unusually tall gearing of the 951 'box is ideally suited for the tracks I run!
Chris
04-22-2016, 10:34 PM
#20
Drifting
Thread Starter
Then you'd like the new gearing in my 968 box. The original post has a downloadable Excel doc created - sent as an editable document. My gearing is the second one down - Audi 3 - 6. Insert the 951 turbo data, you'll find my first five gears are very close. Fun stuff.
G
G
04-29-2016, 06:33 AM
#21
Drifting
Thread Starter
Pure racetrack - not my 3rd well sorted 951's highest and best use. Own and have owned a few cars. Behind the wheel of a well sorted 951 happens to be my favorite street legal car to date. The folks/engineers that developed my differential of choice are leaders within this space. The clutch type diff that came out of my 968 will be sold for a few bucks. It's an OE Porsche MS clutch pack LSD - Lock her as hard as relevant for application desired.
Prior to Lart, or likely friends wanting - she'll be for sale.
G
Prior to Lart, or likely friends wanting - she'll be for sale.
G
I've heard good things about the Wavetrac, and it sounds like a great diff for street and autocross.
However, it would not be the best choice for pure racetrack use as it does NOT provide a locking effect during deceleration/braking, which is one of the best attributes of a clutch-type LSD (also, torque-biasing diffs like the WaveTrac or Torsen/Quaife are NOT "limited-slip" diffs, only clutch-type should be described as such). With a true LSD, the rear wheels partially lock together during deceleration, enabling aggressive trail-braking, which is key for a serious track or race car.
I am not disparaging torque-biasing diffs by any stretch, as they certainly have their place. Clutch-type LSDs wear out, and very aggressive LSDs are not the smoothest things. Also, they can induce mid-corner understeer, which may require chassis setup changes to dial out. So, a TBD is ideal for an autocross car or fun street car. But, my car likes the racetrack, so a clutch-type LSD it is!
BTW, I dream of a 968 6-speed for street use, but the unusually tall gearing of the 951 'box is ideally suited for the tracks I run!
Chris
However, it would not be the best choice for pure racetrack use as it does NOT provide a locking effect during deceleration/braking, which is one of the best attributes of a clutch-type LSD (also, torque-biasing diffs like the WaveTrac or Torsen/Quaife are NOT "limited-slip" diffs, only clutch-type should be described as such). With a true LSD, the rear wheels partially lock together during deceleration, enabling aggressive trail-braking, which is key for a serious track or race car.
I am not disparaging torque-biasing diffs by any stretch, as they certainly have their place. Clutch-type LSDs wear out, and very aggressive LSDs are not the smoothest things. Also, they can induce mid-corner understeer, which may require chassis setup changes to dial out. So, a TBD is ideal for an autocross car or fun street car. But, my car likes the racetrack, so a clutch-type LSD it is!
BTW, I dream of a 968 6-speed for street use, but the unusually tall gearing of the 951 'box is ideally suited for the tracks I run!
Chris
04-30-2016, 04:19 AM
#22
To figure out which of all the 01E gearsets can be swapped, I looked through ETKA, which is the VW/Audi twin of PET. Some of the parts before and after the gearsets share the same part numbers with the 968 variant of the 01E gearbox. ETKA even features an error as the ratio of the gearset for 3rd is labeled x/y on one page and y/x on another, but sourcing the Audi technical sheet cleared this up.
I was going to order gearsets from Scott but I gulped at the price for new units, so sourced the right gearbox here in Europe and was lucky when I opened it that it was in great condition. I was even able to reuse the synchro rings that were like new while those of the used 968 box I had sourced were pretty much all shot.
The right Audi diesel gearbox is horribly hard to find, I found mine after checking the web pretty much everyday for 2 years. I sourced a second one two years ago and sold it within hours after I posted about it on here.
The gearing is great but 6th is IMO useless anywhere but on a derestricted Autobahn, and ok as an overdrive gear for cruising with minimum engine load at 130kph (see here).
Cruising at 200kph at 4k rpm in Germany is very relaxed. We are talking 3L engines here though and I reckon a 2.5L could not put up with the super tall 6th ratio, and as mentioned earlier, there exists an even taller 6th that may require an 800hp engine to make use of it.
For the record such ratios are significantly taller than those used in the 968 turbo S, which IMO would still be ideal. The 968 turbo RS used the same ratios as the 968 NA.
For what it's worth I had an OS Giken Super Lock LSD installed when I had mine built and I love it.
I was going to order gearsets from Scott but I gulped at the price for new units, so sourced the right gearbox here in Europe and was lucky when I opened it that it was in great condition. I was even able to reuse the synchro rings that were like new while those of the used 968 box I had sourced were pretty much all shot.
The right Audi diesel gearbox is horribly hard to find, I found mine after checking the web pretty much everyday for 2 years. I sourced a second one two years ago and sold it within hours after I posted about it on here.
The gearing is great but 6th is IMO useless anywhere but on a derestricted Autobahn, and ok as an overdrive gear for cruising with minimum engine load at 130kph (see here).
Cruising at 200kph at 4k rpm in Germany is very relaxed. We are talking 3L engines here though and I reckon a 2.5L could not put up with the super tall 6th ratio, and as mentioned earlier, there exists an even taller 6th that may require an 800hp engine to make use of it.
For the record such ratios are significantly taller than those used in the 968 turbo S, which IMO would still be ideal. The 968 turbo RS used the same ratios as the 968 NA.
For what it's worth I had an OS Giken Super Lock LSD installed when I had mine built and I love it.
Last edited by Thom; 04-30-2016 at 04:41 AM.
04-30-2016, 05:44 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
To figure out which of all the 01E gearsets can be swapped, I looked through ETKA, which is the VW/Audi twin of PET. Some of the parts before and after the gearsets share the same part numbers with the 968 variant of the 01E gearbox. ETKA even features an error as the ratio of the gearset for 3rd is labeled x/y on one page and y/x on another, but sourcing the Audi technical sheet cleared this up.
I was going to order gearsets from Scott but I gulped at the price for new units, so sourced the right gearbox here in Europe and was lucky when I opened it that it was in great condition. I was even able to reuse the synchro rings that were like new while those of the used 968 box I had sourced were pretty much all shot.
The right Audi diesel gearbox is horribly hard to find, I found mine after checking the web pretty much everyday for 2 years. I sourced a second one two years ago and sold it within hours after I posted about it on here.
The gearing is great but 6th is IMO useless anywhere but on a derestricted Autobahn, and ok as an overdrive gear for cruising with minimum engine load at 130kph (see here).
Cruising at 200kph at 4k rpm in Germany is very relaxed. We are talking 3L engines here though and I reckon a 2.5L could not put up with the super tall 6th ratio, and as mentioned earlier, there exists an even taller 6th that may require an 800hp engine to make use of it.
For the record such ratios are significantly taller than those used in the 968 turbo S, which IMO would still be ideal. The 968 turbo RS used the same ratios as the 968 NA.
For what it's worth I had an OS Giken Super Lock LSD installed when I had mine built and I love it.
I was going to order gearsets from Scott but I gulped at the price for new units, so sourced the right gearbox here in Europe and was lucky when I opened it that it was in great condition. I was even able to reuse the synchro rings that were like new while those of the used 968 box I had sourced were pretty much all shot.
The right Audi diesel gearbox is horribly hard to find, I found mine after checking the web pretty much everyday for 2 years. I sourced a second one two years ago and sold it within hours after I posted about it on here.
The gearing is great but 6th is IMO useless anywhere but on a derestricted Autobahn, and ok as an overdrive gear for cruising with minimum engine load at 130kph (see here).
Cruising at 200kph at 4k rpm in Germany is very relaxed. We are talking 3L engines here though and I reckon a 2.5L could not put up with the super tall 6th ratio, and as mentioned earlier, there exists an even taller 6th that may require an 800hp engine to make use of it.
For the record such ratios are significantly taller than those used in the 968 turbo S, which IMO would still be ideal. The 968 turbo RS used the same ratios as the 968 NA.
For what it's worth I had an OS Giken Super Lock LSD installed when I had mine built and I love it.
04-30-2016, 06:08 AM
#24
04-30-2016, 08:00 PM
#25
Drifting
Thread Starter
04-30-2016, 10:18 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
D'oh...I didn't realise that it was Scott who posted that about the .87 6th gear. Senility is creeping up...
07-30-2018, 01:47 PM
#27
Drifting
Resurrecting this thread as I want a taller 6th gear for my 968. Cruising on the highway can get noisy, especially on long trips.
My 968 is stock and might get a ported / polished head with headers and a tune, but that's about it. So will the Audi 0.600 6th gear work ok for my car's power or is it too tall? I will NOT be using 6th gear on the track.
Thank you.
My 968 is stock and might get a ported / polished head with headers and a tune, but that's about it. So will the Audi 0.600 6th gear work ok for my car's power or is it too tall? I will NOT be using 6th gear on the track.
Thank you.