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Finally got my favorite Porsche! Need advise please!
Hi all,
I've finally returned to this awesome community with the purchase of my favorite Porsche and one my favorite cars of all time, the 951! I previously had an 82 but considered an 83 US model 944 I had purchased back in 2000, and due to being in a low paying job fresh out of college at the time made it difficult to afford maintenance on the car and eventually was forced to sell it back in 2006, but it went to a good home to live on as someone's race car. Now nearly ten years later I found an amazing deal on an 87 951 that has been in storage since 2001, as far as I'm told, the window inspection stick has 2001 on it and the owner I bought it from said he had purchased it and stored it away to eventually be restored with only few things changed on it, one being a Fab cat back exhaust. I purchased it on 2/1/2016 and at the time the car wouldn't run, that is until I added some fresh gas, a new battery and new spark plugs, and I'd be damned she fired right up, idled a little rough but I was impressed. In addition to the great price the PO gave me a butt load of extra parts for the car, I damn near have a spare car in total! Many of the parts I plan to sell as I go through the car to see what I need and what I don't or won't. So, seeing as the PO had no idea of any of the maintenance records for her I decided to start tearing the motor down to change the timing and balance belts and water pump, before I needed to rebuild the engine. Discrepancy I've found so far is that the last known mileage was around 203k, again this is back in 2001 as per a VIN check. The cluster states 134,899, which I soon found out I had to pull the cluster and repair the cheap speedo gear which seems to need to be replaced on damn near every 944! So now my speedometer works as it was meant to. Also fixed the dim lighting issue with the gauges, "while I'm in there", seems to be a common philosophy with these cars. Where I'm at now? I have the motor stripped down to almost a long block, as I've pulled out a rebuilt alternator, starter, PS pump to rebuild due to leaking like a faucet, the intake manifold is off, pulled all the brittle and rotted vacuum lines for replacement. I ordered a ton of parts for the engine for replacing BS bearings, sleeves and seals, camshaft sleeve and seals (all of them), piston rings, rod bearings, vacuum lines in silicone, motor mounts, hoses, oil cooler housing gasket set, oil pan gasket, to name a few of the many parts I've ordered. My question and search for advise is this: how deep should I go with this at this point? The oil pressure when I got it running went to 5 bar when cold and dropped to 4 or 3 bar when warm, coolant temp was smack in the middle when warm. Compression, I did it with the engine cold for some reason, been a while since I did a comp check was roughly 135-140 on all four cylinders. The plugs removed were black, oily or fouled, I can attach a photo if needed. Turbo seems ok, no play in the shaft and spun freely, I'm not too familiar with turbo setups though, only FI I've played around with thus far has been superchargers on V8 LS motors. Do I pull the head and replace HG and have head cleaned up, or leave it and possibly wait until hopefully next fall to pull the entire engine for a clean up? Do I drop the oil pan and change the rod bearings and rings now, or again wait until planned overhaul? Should I just do the seals and Maintenance parts or go full out now and be done with it? My reasoning for the planned overhaul in the fall is two part: A) currently I am working toward finishing a MBA degree that will be completed by August of this year, so my full attention is currently divided & B) I would really like to bring this car to the Carlisle European auto show in May that is focused on German cars. I would also like to change over to a 3 piece cross member like Lindsey's when I do pull the pan, but was thinking to maybe pull the engine from above if I do it now, not 100% what that entails as of yet. My plans for this car are to keep it and enjoy the modern classic I've always have had a passion for, so I want this car to hopefully last a long time. The one thing I must say is that supposedly if the mileage is truly over 200k then it's pretty damn clean for that kind of mileage and age, minus all the mother loving grease and oil I power cleaned off the engine and compartment, now her insides shines almost like the day she rolled off the lot. Once I figure out how to post pics I'll get them up so everyone can see my progress, I'm also working on getting them up on Instagram as well. I'd like to thank everyone in advance for their input, opinions and ideas, in addition to being grateful for such an awesome resource for enthusiast such as my self! |
Seems the hardest part on these engines, is deciding to do a partial, or a full engine restoration. I did the latter two summers ago, and was glad I pulled the engine. Having it face front on a stand, gives you the pleasure of really cleaning that engine. And, the coolant spaces in between each cylinder, you'll usually find dirt buildup from all those years and miles on that car. Accessing the lower balance shaft, the dirty oil cooler, the head gasket, the cam tower gaskets, etc., are made easier with the engine out. And, you can replace the speed and reference sensors, inspect/replace the clutch, that nasty rear main seal, main and rod bearings. Once the engine is cleaned, inspected, and all the parts have arrived, it doesn't take long to put it back together. I didn't replace the main bearings, they were fine, and I kept the pistons attached to the crank. One or two less steps if not needed! Reference Clarks Garage for help, great source.
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Congrats and welcome back 944 ownership!
I was going to vote for 'full out now', but you want to get the car back on the road for May and you're completing an MBA.... so I vote for essential maintenance now, and engine-out rebuild in the fall/winter. I bought my car last June and I just went through the exercise of replacing all the front seals, rod bearings, oil pan gasket, belts, hoses, etc, etc... with the engine in the car. I didn't plan to do everything, but one thing lead to another.... scope creep. Cleaned as best I could. I left the head alone. I wish I had just pulled the engine - it would have saved time and frustration. Oh well, it's done now. PICS!! |
for posting pictures
1) Go the "Advanced Option" button on the bottom of the reply window 2) Next click the Manage Attachments button 3) Upload. To put verbiage between is a little more complicated. |
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...6a3ec0f8c9.jpg
Engine bay the day she came to her new home! https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...256bc5723e.jpg Day 1 of Project Guinness begins https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...086aeadd7a.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...8d7e9dfc1a.jpg If it weren't for the broken fog lense and the white header panel this would be a good pic https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...25694c61c8.jpg Best shot of her on Day 1 https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...d5b1e4a84b.jpg Second best pic of her on Day 1, although I put a slight dent by the key hole getting her up on the trailer which will have to be fixed at some point! https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...70a54792ae.jpg Engine bay prior to cleaning it, shes been sitting around for many years in a garage and most currently she'd been sitting outside with a cover over her, so there was a lot of dirt and leaves under here https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...0364d2c2b4.jpg Rear undercarriage, no damage and new FAB cat back exhaust https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...ac00cbb066.jpg |
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...5035eb5fff.jpg
once I got her running I did a compression test, although the engine was cold when I did this, all 4 were around 135-140psi https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...96c52776e9.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...e667621882.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...23df3509db.jpg Day 1 interior, not bad but needed a good cleansing https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...4a232f0ecf.jpg not too bad other than the stain on the driver side https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...1188d2d646.jpg making way for a new head unit https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...c3d7a2de15.jpg keeping with the German theme I installed the original airbag wheel and a Blaupunkt navigation head unit with bluetooth https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...eff6765092.jpg Post engine bay cleaning round 1, looks better, but still a ton of grease from the bottom of the head down! https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...5d4c839cd3.jpg Timing belt assessment https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...5ab054ff72.jpg Considering these haven't been changed in what I'm guessing the latter of over at least 14 years that I figure, sure it was before that even, the balance belt was very flimsy with minor tension https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...b18145d9ed.jpg After this assessment I swiftly ordered myself a tool set from Arnworx to do this properly, very good quality tools by the way |
Originally Posted by grenadiers
(Post 13121089)
Seems the hardest part on these engines, is deciding to do a partial, or a full engine restoration. I did the latter two summers ago, and was glad I pulled the engine. Having it face front on a stand, gives you the pleasure of really cleaning that engine. And, the coolant spaces in between each cylinder, you'll usually find dirt buildup from all those years and miles on that car. Accessing the lower balance shaft, the dirty oil cooler, the head gasket, the cam tower gaskets, etc., are made easier with the engine out. And, you can replace the speed and reference sensors, inspect/replace the clutch, that nasty rear main seal, main and rod bearings. Once the engine is cleaned, inspected, and all the parts have arrived, it doesn't take long to put it back together. I didn't replace the main bearings, they were fine, and I kept the pistons attached to the crank. One or two less steps if not needed! Reference Clarks Garage for help, great source.
I just got a package from Pelican with the complete bottom end set, minus the main bearings, which like you mentioned I don't think I'd mess with them. I received the rings, rod bearings, oil pan gasket, engine mounts, oil cooler housing gasket, although I had to order a kit because I didn't realize I needs O-rings for the cooler itself. I haven't ordered a head gasket set yet either, I can get a complete one for around $90 but its not a wide fire, not sure if its worth doing a WF or just go with a stock one again, I know Lart had written about that WF is a waste of money or something to that effect. How hard is it to pull the engine from above? once I disconnect the bellhousing bolts will the clutch come out? the turbo seems to be a PITA to get out due to the fact the bolts and nuts are rusty from age and mileage. Still on the fence on this one, in one way I'd like to do it and be done with it so I can enjoy the car worry free, but at the same time, I'm running out of time in regards to free time and trying to make that car show. Would you recommend redoing the head if I pull it? this "while your in there" is turning into "needing unlimited funds" lol |
Originally Posted by grenadiers
(Post 13121089)
Seems the hardest part on these engines, is deciding to do a partial, or a full engine restoration. I did the latter two summers ago, and was glad I pulled the engine. Having it face front on a stand, gives you the pleasure of really cleaning that engine. And, the coolant spaces in between each cylinder, you'll usually find dirt buildup from all those years and miles on that car. Accessing the lower balance shaft, the dirty oil cooler, the head gasket, the cam tower gaskets, etc., are made easier with the engine out. And, you can replace the speed and reference sensors, inspect/replace the clutch, that nasty rear main seal, main and rod bearings. Once the engine is cleaned, inspected, and all the parts have arrived, it doesn't take long to put it back together. I didn't replace the main bearings, they were fine, and I kept the pistons attached to the crank. One or two less steps if not needed! Reference Clarks Garage for help, great source.
Originally Posted by 944TurboYYC
(Post 13121296)
Congrats and welcome back 944 ownership!
I was going to vote for 'full out now', but you want to get the car back on the road for May and you're completing an MBA.... so I vote for essential maintenance now, and engine-out rebuild in the fall/winter. I bought my car last June and I just went through the exercise of replacing all the front seals, rod bearings, oil pan gasket, belts, hoses, etc, etc... with the engine in the car. I didn't plan to do everything, but one thing lead to another.... scope creep. Cleaned as best I could. I left the head alone. I wish I had just pulled the engine - it would have saved time and frustration. Oh well, it's done now. PICS!! One side of me is saying "your almost there and this way you can check the exhaust gaskets, rear main seal (which I'm sure is pissing out oil there too) and most importantly the clutch, which I hope was replaced by the PO! I have exactly two months from today to get this done, if the head needs to be machined that will add another week or so the shop tells me, polishing the crank if I ended up removing shouldn't take too long, but then I'd probably have to change the main bearings. I definitely agree with you that pulling the engine does seem like the best route to go, but I'd probably have to remove it from the top due to the car being on a slanted driveway at the moment and don't think I trust having on jack stands on a slant. I love how this turned into a major project from a "maintenance repair" of changing the timing and balance shaft belts and rollers along with the water pump! LOL, guess that's the price to pay to play |
Originally Posted by rlm328
(Post 13121789)
for posting pictures
1) Go the "Advanced Option" button on the bottom of the reply window 2) Next click the Manage Attachments button 3) Upload. To put verbiage between is a little more complicated. |
The car looks good - relatively unmolested and stock.... but oh so dirty.
The more I see these wheels the more I like them. Pure 80's. The exhaust looks new - Is that tailpipe as restrictive as it looks? Are you replacing the flexible fuel lines? |
Originally Posted by 944TurboYYC
(Post 13123422)
The car looks good - relatively unmolested and stock.... but oh so dirty.
The more I see these wheels the more I like them. Pure 80's. The exhaust looks new - Is that tailpipe as restrictive as it looks? Are you replacing the flexible fuel lines? The rims have grown on me and I plan to polish them, I actually have two sets of them, both are in great shape, I thought they were off a 928 but seems correct for 87 944 turbos as well. Although I do want a set of either twist or the 996 spoke style for summer driving and use the stock ones for winter. Exhaust is new, the only thing the PO did was install that, don't know why he didn't get it running before changing it, but to each his own, some would wonder why I'd put a navigation radio in prior to all this as well and answer is simple: good deal on it and need music when I'm working on it, plus the speakers were shot so those were replaced with 4x6 Polk plates in the doors and Polk 6.5 in the rear, a small sub box and amp will be added later for a full stereo sound stage, but this is fine for now, Not all that crazy about the exhaust and may end up selling it if I go the route of the 968 rear bumper conversion, I picked up a nice rear bumper cover from a 968 and even when I had my 83 944 I always wanted that rear on the car, just makes it look more modern and less 70's. I wouldn't change the front as I think the flip up lights add class to the classic. The fuel lines are a must! They were making cracking sounds as I tried to move them out of the way when I removed the cam tower, I'm amazed this hasn't caused a fire! I like the type arnnworx has as I want to route them along the firewall and possibly delete the jumper hose as that is shot and insanely priced at $100! I'll get more pics of the exhaust as well, still need to figure out why I can't add more pics? |
Originally Posted by 87nine5one
(Post 13123494)
I'll get more pics of the exhaust as well, still need to figure out why I can't add more pics?
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2 Attachment(s)
I just signed up for 2 years, I'll see if it works now
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https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...5999b32718.jpg
Arnworx Throttle body reseal kit installed https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...556b2e94ab.jpg the coupler was like a rock so I switched to a more softer silicone one, night and day https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...85d85d9b59.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...c7195534d8.jpg getting her ready to be refreshed https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...de05eefce6.jpg engine prior to strip down, actually ran pretty well with just some fresh gas, new plugs, and a new battery |
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...7313fea229.jpg
airing her out while I tear the engine apart https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...f4118bebef.jpg Damn! the grease on this engine was crazy, I don't know how many gloves and rags in addition to cans of Gunk and brake cleaner I used just to get the engine half way decent! https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...dfdf6d6c5c.jpg getting the nose panel ready for primer https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...863caf95f6.jpg nose panel primed https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...40840ba5f6.jpg Cleaning and painting of the engine begins...... https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...89672fd998.jpg Much better |
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