Full PCCB GT3 Big Brake swap for an '88 951
03-17-2015, 04:34 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Just major costs to replace them when they wear out due to track usage. Much cheaper to replace the steel rotors and the steel ones are far easier to source from multiple places...
03-18-2015, 12:47 PM
#17
Drifting
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They will never wear out on the street especially since I only drive the car 5-7K miles per year. The whole package cost less then half of my stereo so not even 1/20th of the price of my car. As long as Robb gets the mounting brackets done correctly I am going to be very happy with my new toy!
03-18-2015, 04:36 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
There have been 3 generations of PCCB compounds. So I think you have to look at the feedback in those terms. What was true of the first gen 996 PCCB's may not necessarily be true for the compound you have in a 991 GT3.
The issue seems to be too much heat on the track (for some drivers). From what I've learned lately (I've been studying this a lot in deciding whether to get them and talked to our local Ferrari team and techs about this) carbon-ceramics are designed to operate at a higher temp than iron rotors. That is how they work at their light weight. (X amount of kinetic energy into a light weight rotor necessarily means a higher peak temp. That's the "price", if you will, for the low unsprung weight and lower rotational inertia.)
But basically in real world track use, the temps people were seeing were higher than expected and that causes *Extremely* accelerated wear on these things. Then what that happens, you get the surprise of replacing rotors that cost so many thousands of dollars *each*.
The latest gen compound (on the 991 GT3/Turbo and 981 GT4 and maybe some other cars) may be better at this. I don't know that we have enough data there, but it seems there are fewer complaints about this now (again, that may be because there is less experience with the new cars). Also the 991 GT3 and 981 GT4 have even larger rotors and more fine-tuned cooling, which may help (or may not). I guess we'll see.
Bottom line for me is that I got them on my car. I will monitor track wear carefully, and if I see an issue there I will get standard rotors for the track and keep the ceramics for street use.
The issue seems to be too much heat on the track (for some drivers). From what I've learned lately (I've been studying this a lot in deciding whether to get them and talked to our local Ferrari team and techs about this) carbon-ceramics are designed to operate at a higher temp than iron rotors. That is how they work at their light weight. (X amount of kinetic energy into a light weight rotor necessarily means a higher peak temp. That's the "price", if you will, for the low unsprung weight and lower rotational inertia.)
But basically in real world track use, the temps people were seeing were higher than expected and that causes *Extremely* accelerated wear on these things. Then what that happens, you get the surprise of replacing rotors that cost so many thousands of dollars *each*.
The latest gen compound (on the 991 GT3/Turbo and 981 GT4 and maybe some other cars) may be better at this. I don't know that we have enough data there, but it seems there are fewer complaints about this now (again, that may be because there is less experience with the new cars). Also the 991 GT3 and 981 GT4 have even larger rotors and more fine-tuned cooling, which may help (or may not). I guess we'll see.
Bottom line for me is that I got them on my car. I will monitor track wear carefully, and if I see an issue there I will get standard rotors for the track and keep the ceramics for street use.
03-25-2015, 01:34 AM
#22
Drifting
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Brakes and calipers have arrived at Rob's and Lart has shipped the rear control arms for test purposes. This dream might be coming true in the near future!
03-25-2015, 04:07 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
I saw some guy selling off a barely used set from a GT3 and he was asking $8500 for the pair!! My eyes are watering just typing that Eric!
03-25-2015, 05:09 AM
#24
Three Wheelin'
Eric this is absolutely the best thing yet, you have done to a 944. This is exactly the "makes no sense whatsoever" sort of thing I would do. I would also be tempted to take into a Porsche centre on some pretext, just to blow their minds, as thats about the only place that everyone there would actually understand how monumental what you are doing is lol. I once put about $30,000 worth of car audio equipment into a car that cost less than $1000 and ppl thought I was crazy but as I often pointed out, it wasn't bought for the car, as the car didn't listen to it, I did, so cars worth had no baring on it.
You can't take it with you so I would say why not do it, rather than the usual why. The system bought me a lot of joy (and a lot of throphys), so I figure I was just the one lucky enough to make it happen.
You can't take it with you so I would say why not do it, rather than the usual why. The system bought me a lot of joy (and a lot of throphys), so I figure I was just the one lucky enough to make it happen.
03-25-2015, 07:06 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
Eric,that's an incredible undertaking - I hope it's a great success.
On the subject of issues with the earlier iterations of Carbon Ceramic brakes - what the manufacturers omitted to tell people - was yes this is Formula One technology - but in F1 the discs are a one-use-only throw away item.
Of course in F1 the ducting & pad materials were varied from circuit to circuit to keep the discs in their optimum temperature range.
The discs never saw two races in F1 - for a road car which will see track-day (DE) action - it's an entirely different scenario.
Tim
On the subject of issues with the earlier iterations of Carbon Ceramic brakes - what the manufacturers omitted to tell people - was yes this is Formula One technology - but in F1 the discs are a one-use-only throw away item.
Of course in F1 the ducting & pad materials were varied from circuit to circuit to keep the discs in their optimum temperature range.
The discs never saw two races in F1 - for a road car which will see track-day (DE) action - it's an entirely different scenario.
Tim
03-25-2015, 09:45 AM
#26
Rainman
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For the unbelievable expense this conversion will cost - why not just go to a full GT3 suspension setup like TonyG did?
He even threw up a price number, drop your car off at Vision and write a check for XXX, come back in a week or two and have dialed in GT3 stuff.
The t-bar won't ever give as good a ride as a decent multilink and the handling advantages are well-known. Not that t-bars are necessarily bad, but the multi-link is just better...
He even threw up a price number, drop your car off at Vision and write a check for XXX, come back in a week or two and have dialed in GT3 stuff.
The t-bar won't ever give as good a ride as a decent multilink and the handling advantages are well-known. Not that t-bars are necessarily bad, but the multi-link is just better...
03-25-2015, 01:19 PM
#27
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If you think the brakes are nice, wait until you see the suspension and rims that are coming soon! 
Thanks for all the props. They are not installed yet and far from functional! Only time will tell, could be a total waste of money.
Thanks for all the props. They are not installed yet and far from functional! Only time will tell, could be a total waste of money.
03-25-2015, 04:53 PM
#28
Three Wheelin'
I now feel completely inadequate with my xschop 996.1 GT3 brake setup.
