Notices
944 Turbo and Turbo-S Forum 1982-1991
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: Clore Automotive

Christopher's 16v 2.5L 951 project.

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 04-14-2018, 07:21 PM
  #181  
Kris H
Instructor
Thread Starter
 
Kris H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

If i recall correctly - 944s stock cams. I had a modified set with even higher lift and different lobes but the machining on those was far from perfect so i decided to leave them and instead use stock n/a 944s ones for the time being
Old 04-14-2018, 07:24 PM
  #182  
ealoken
Three Wheelin'
 
ealoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,331
Received 114 Likes on 72 Posts
Default

Nice exhaust, What is your plan on the intercooler setup?
Old 04-14-2018, 09:38 PM
  #183  
gruhsy
Drifting
 
gruhsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Calgary
Posts: 2,559
Received 51 Likes on 38 Posts
Default

This is an article I enjoyed reading about 4 cylinders and twin scroll exhaust.

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine...technology.htm


Originally Posted by ptuomov
Ok so forgive me if I’m misinformed, but it’s my understanding that the twin scroll design on a four cylinder engine is beneficial because it reduces the 180-degree exhaust blowdown interference. That interference is a problem at low rpms only. What is “low rpm” depends on the exhaust primary lengths and camshaft overlap. With little camshaft overlap and long exhaust primaries, twin scroll only helps at very low rpms. With very short exhaust primaries and high-overlap cams, twin scroll can help into reasonably high rpms. Like Kevin Igly’s four cylinder race car (not a Porsche), that thing has to big cams that it wouldn’t go well without both tuned primary lengths and teunnsctoll turbo. I guess I’m asking what kinds of cams are you running on this thing?
Old 04-15-2018, 04:00 AM
  #184  
Kris H
Instructor
Thread Starter
 
Kris H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

In the last paragraph, the article cited by gruhsy backs that 180 degree interference is mitigated in inline 4 engines exactly by using a twin scroll (citation below). I would not say it's only relevant in low rpms, cause in practice utilizing twinscroll has sown significant spool time improvement on many applications. And faster spool means improvement in the whole range upward. Whether i will succeed or not is a completely different question

Although the split housing arrangement adds wetted area (hence boundary layer drag) to the gas flow, the advantages more than offset that drag increase. In instances where pulse energy recovery has been optimized, it is often possible, based on calculations using pressure and temperature losses across the turbine, to observe very high turbine efficiencies, which some experts say are in excess of 100%.
Pulses which are evenly-spaced but too close together will reduce the effectiveness of this pulse energy recovery. Apparently, that phenomenon is seen on even-fire inline 4-cylinder engines as well as on individual banks of flat-crank V8 engines, where the pulse separation is 180°. I was told that the ideal pulse separation was in the neighborhood of 240 crankshaft degrees, and that, on an even-fire (single-plane crankshaft) inline-4 (as opposed to the two-plane crankshafts used in some Moto-GP motorcycle engines) it is better to separate the end cylinders into one side and the center two into the other side of the turbine than to run all four together into an undivided scroll housing.
Old 04-15-2018, 09:45 AM
  #185  
Humboldtgrin
Drifting
 
Humboldtgrin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: NORTHERN CALIFORNIA
Posts: 2,268
Received 18 Likes on 17 Posts
Default

Yea I don't know if you really want THAT engine in your car. You know what, I happen to have a 951 totally built up with all kinds of cool parts and ready to test out a nice engine just like that exact one. You may think you really want that engine because all the hard work you have put into it but I know it's just no good for you without out being broke in by me in my 951, it told me. Trust me, I rarely lie. Oh yea, I'll give it back when I'm done "breaking" it in. Promise.

Last edited by Humboldtgrin; 04-16-2018 at 10:39 PM.
Old 04-15-2018, 05:51 PM
  #186  
Voith
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Voith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 8,385
Received 646 Likes on 408 Posts
Default

Awesome progress. Congrats! What grade and wall thickness of stainless did you use?
Old 04-16-2018, 04:10 PM
  #187  
Kris H
Instructor
Thread Starter
 
Kris H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Voith - as far as i know it’s 1,6mm (~0.65in) and probably 304 grade stainless. Not the best for sure but should work and in time we’ll do an inconel manifold/titanium exhaust anyway, so this is more of a proto approach to see whether that tubing works as intended or not

Humboldtgrin - yaaay finally to get rid of the engine as soon as i finish the build was my intention since the very beginning! Give me a call and we’ll arrange everything

and honestly thanks for the support. I was completely devastated by the scammers.

Old 04-16-2018, 06:01 PM
  #188  
Voith
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Voith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 8,385
Received 646 Likes on 408 Posts
Default

Who scammed you?
Old 04-16-2018, 09:01 PM
  #189  
Kris H
Instructor
Thread Starter
 
Kris H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Voith
Who scammed you?
let’s just omit that.. long story short a shop pretending they worked on the car while they didn’t, and most of their „work” turned out to be badly made junk, extremely hazardous to both car and people riding it. I don’t really want to delve into details on that..
Old 04-19-2018, 04:32 AM
  #190  
Kris H
Instructor
Thread Starter
 
Kris H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

m0re engine p0rn

For the time being turbo feed is finished, time to get on the other side of the head..





















Old 04-19-2018, 04:34 AM
  #191  
ealoken
Three Wheelin'
 
ealoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,331
Received 114 Likes on 72 Posts
Default

I just have to ask, all that trouble, piping and parts, why dont you use a BW og Garret turbo ?
Old 04-19-2018, 05:41 AM
  #192  
Kris H
Instructor
Thread Starter
 
Kris H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Simply put because of bang for the buck. Holset turbos are very reliable, they spool great despite their original application, and in this particular case i got a very good turbo in a barter for a couple of parts which basically were junk for me (i seriously did not even intent to sell them) it will most likely get refurbished, balanced and ceracoated so you can say this will be the only cost as far as the turbo is concerned. For every other turbo i would still need custom piping fabrication, so i don't count that.
Altogether the turbocharger will cost me around 300 USD and it will technically be better than new.. Can I get a superior borg or garrett within such budget?
Old 04-19-2018, 05:43 AM
  #193  
ealoken
Three Wheelin'
 
ealoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,331
Received 114 Likes on 72 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Kris H
Simply put because of bang for the buck. Holset turbos are very reliable, they spool great despite their original application, and in this particular case i got a very good turbo in a barter for a couple of parts which basically were junk for me (i seriously did not even intent to sell them) it will most likely get refurbished, balanced and ceracoated so you can say this will be the only cost as far as the turbo is concerned. For every other turbo i would still need custom piping fabrication, so i don't count that.
Altogether the turbocharger will cost me around 300 USD and it will technically be better than new.. Can I get a superior borg or garrett within such budget?
haha no, mine was 2500 ....
But i see the bang 4 bucks part. I like your build, so keep the pictures and updates coming

Cheers
Old 04-19-2018, 10:47 AM
  #194  
Humboldtgrin
Drifting
 
Humboldtgrin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: NORTHERN CALIFORNIA
Posts: 2,268
Received 18 Likes on 17 Posts
Default

Could your exhaust fabricator make more? Oh and your intake fabricator make more? Say for a 3.0L setup? My 951 should be ready for that beast just as soon as your done. You really want a 3.0L not that one. In order to get what I believe you truly want you need to donate lots and even more then lots of money to the 951 Gods. Don't worry I'm here to help, myself.
Old 04-19-2018, 11:31 AM
  #195  
Kris H
Instructor
Thread Starter
 
Kris H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Humboldtgrin - I really want NEED your dealer's pharmacologist's number Don't you worry, as soon as this is finished, my fabrication wizard will cook me some very nice 3L 16v setup or maybe something a bit more exciting


Quick Reply: Christopher's 16v 2.5L 951 project.



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 02:41 PM.