Running Tial with Cycling Valve
01-06-2015, 10:32 AM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Running Tial with Cycling Valve
Hey folks,
I've got a full Fabspeed exhaust arriving in two or three weeks. In the meantime, I'm going to drop my cross-over, and re-seal/gasket and torque all of the exhaust components from the turbo charger to the headers and wastegate. Will probably also send the x-over to Lindsey to have them cut it so that future oil pan access is easier.
Question: I have an uninstalled Tial F38 (.5 bar spring - 7.25 psi) with adapters. Pulling/Installing this with the cross-over out is probably the ideal time. I would like to keep it in single port mode for now and run it off the cycling valve, just as the stock one is. Is there any issue with this? I am familiar with the design differences between tial and stock WRT to inlet and outlet, and where the vacuum lines go. Just need to know if I can swap out directly and not encounter anything unexpected with respect to boost. I have the A-tune.
Note: I am later going to dual-port with an EBC I already own. I want to keep it single port with no changes for now as I don't like changing too many things at once on these cars. Pulling the whole exhaust system and changing the wastegate is all I want to bite off in this round.
I've got a full Fabspeed exhaust arriving in two or three weeks. In the meantime, I'm going to drop my cross-over, and re-seal/gasket and torque all of the exhaust components from the turbo charger to the headers and wastegate. Will probably also send the x-over to Lindsey to have them cut it so that future oil pan access is easier.
Question: I have an uninstalled Tial F38 (.5 bar spring - 7.25 psi) with adapters. Pulling/Installing this with the cross-over out is probably the ideal time. I would like to keep it in single port mode for now and run it off the cycling valve, just as the stock one is. Is there any issue with this? I am familiar with the design differences between tial and stock WRT to inlet and outlet, and where the vacuum lines go. Just need to know if I can swap out directly and not encounter anything unexpected with respect to boost. I have the A-tune.
Note: I am later going to dual-port with an EBC I already own. I want to keep it single port with no changes for now as I don't like changing too many things at once on these cars. Pulling the whole exhaust system and changing the wastegate is all I want to bite off in this round.
01-06-2015, 12:44 PM
#3
Pro
Thread Starter
Jim, thanks for the quick reply. For my own understanding, why would this be different (in principle) from shimming a stock wastegate? Shimming effectively increases spring weight for the CV, correct?
Thanks, Scott
Thanks, Scott
01-06-2015, 07:38 PM
#6
No - the CV cycles/pulses, and as I understand it, the KLR code isn't really adaptive. It won't "learn" the new rate. It's just a set pulsewidth in a table, and is based on the assumption that the stock WG is there.
The *minimum* boost on the stock WG is 4psi. On your Tial, it's 7 (mine it's 10 - are you sure you're on a 7.25psi spring?) The stock spring in the stock WG will react at a certain rate (open/close, rate of open/rate of close, and response time between the CV opening/closing and boost rising/falling). The Tial will be different, and the CV control inside the KLR won't know that.
The *minimum* boost on the stock WG is 4psi. On your Tial, it's 7 (mine it's 10 - are you sure you're on a 7.25psi spring?) The stock spring in the stock WG will react at a certain rate (open/close, rate of open/rate of close, and response time between the CV opening/closing and boost rising/falling). The Tial will be different, and the CV control inside the KLR won't know that.
01-06-2015, 07:57 PM
#7
Pro
Thread Starter
Got it - thanks for taking time for the explanation - much appreciated!
Yes, I have the .5bar/7.25lb spring - i want the ability to run it pretty close to stock once the ebc is in.
For your ebc (assuming you have it), where did you tie in for 12v switched? I have no more headroom on the radio power.
Yes, I have the .5bar/7.25lb spring - i want the ability to run it pretty close to stock once the ebc is in.
For your ebc (assuming you have it), where did you tie in for 12v switched? I have no more headroom on the radio power.
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01-07-2015, 12:25 AM
#8
Rennlist Member
I've done exactly that; run a .5 bar spring using CV.
The CV/KLR doesn't know and doesn't care if you have a stiffer spring; you'll just have more boost, that's all. The amount of boost is generally the difference between the two springs, maybe a bit more. I think I saw 17-18 psi IIRC. Maybe that's more than what you want; not sure.
The CV/KLR doesn't know and doesn't care if you have a stiffer spring; you'll just have more boost, that's all. The amount of boost is generally the difference between the two springs, maybe a bit more. I think I saw 17-18 psi IIRC. Maybe that's more than what you want; not sure.
01-07-2015, 08:58 AM
#9
Pro
Thread Starter
Turbo, ok that is interesting for sure. Did your car reliably hit whatever range (17-18, or any amount x) every time? I don't want any variability - want to hit x every time. A lower spring weight might get what I'm after.
01-07-2015, 09:55 AM
#10
I've done exactly that; run a .5 bar spring using CV.
The CV/KLR doesn't know and doesn't care if you have a stiffer spring; you'll just have more boost, that's all. The amount of boost is generally the difference between the two springs, maybe a bit more. I think I saw 17-18 psi IIRC. Maybe that's more than what you want; not sure.
The CV/KLR doesn't know and doesn't care if you have a stiffer spring; you'll just have more boost, that's all. The amount of boost is generally the difference between the two springs, maybe a bit more. I think I saw 17-18 psi IIRC. Maybe that's more than what you want; not sure.
I experimented with a custom tweaked KLR (built by a well known 951 tuner) a few years ago on my Tial and we never got any semblance of control out of it.
01-07-2015, 05:28 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
It's no different than using an aftermarket ebc, which is essentially an electronic tunable bleeder.
Basic spring pressure, bleed away a fixed amount of control pressure = "x" amount of boost over and above the spring.
01-16-2018, 06:42 AM
#12
I started my own thread on this yesterday. Just trying to make sense of this.
01-19-2018, 08:15 PM
#13
So I got the tile 38 wastegate installed. But as I said before the cyclic valve broke. So I just went with the manual boost controller which I plan on hooking up shortly. A couple questions
1)after hooking up the manual boost controller do I have to plug the J Boog hole? And if so what does everyone plug it with.
2) When I bought the car it had auto authority stage two chips on it. Which requires a banjo restriction on the intercooler pipe. Exactly where the vacuum hose goes for the wastegate. Do I need to source a stock banjo bolt? Or is the restricted one OK? Thanks.
edit, I’m just gonna source a new bolt for the intercooler pipe. A bolt that has a vacuum connection for the boost Controller. Would have thought LR would have supplied a bolt for that pipe.
1)after hooking up the manual boost controller do I have to plug the J Boog hole? And if so what does everyone plug it with.
2) When I bought the car it had auto authority stage two chips on it. Which requires a banjo restriction on the intercooler pipe. Exactly where the vacuum hose goes for the wastegate. Do I need to source a stock banjo bolt? Or is the restricted one OK? Thanks.
edit, I’m just gonna source a new bolt for the intercooler pipe. A bolt that has a vacuum connection for the boost Controller. Would have thought LR would have supplied a bolt for that pipe.
Last edited by Dkritz944; 01-19-2018 at 11:53 PM.
01-21-2018, 10:09 AM
#14
Drifting
1. Just find a bolt that fits in the j-boot hole and use a little hose clamp; 2. You could probably leave the smaller banjo bolt as is. To connect my new vacuum line—the tiny silicone ones from LR—I used a brass adapter from small to large and no problems. BTW that manual boost controller is funny: nothing, nothing, nothing then one little turn near the end and you're flying! Or... overboosting 
01-21-2018, 10:40 AM
#15
1. Just find a bolt that fits in the j-boot hole and use a little hose clamp; 2. You could probably leave the smaller banjo bolt as is. To connect my new vacuum line—the tiny silicone ones from LR—I used a brass adapter from small to large and no problems. BTW that manual boost controller is funny: nothing, nothing, nothing then one little turn near the end and you're flying! Or... overboosting