Building a Turbo S2
05-17-2014, 05:09 PM
#61
Drifting
Yes. Nicom/Nikasil coated bores with Wossner pistons. The 2.7 head has stock sized turbo valves with larger exhaust valves.
We rebuilt Jeff's motor with only 18K on the motor that had JE pistons. The bores were worn from piston slap. We honed the cylinder and used 104.5 Wossner pistons in a Nicom coated block. The motor is now running 24psi with good results so far. This was done here in Tucson with Sean, Jeff, and Justin.
G
We rebuilt Jeff's motor with only 18K on the motor that had JE pistons. The bores were worn from piston slap. We honed the cylinder and used 104.5 Wossner pistons in a Nicom coated block. The motor is now running 24psi with good results so far. This was done here in Tucson with Sean, Jeff, and Justin.
G
05-17-2014, 05:27 PM
#62
But what happens to those missing 2.7 blocks, I bought a complete 2.7 engine for what the head was worth, and most sellers I contacted had scrapped the block or said I could have the rest of the engine free or for peanuts. A plus is the 2.7 block has the right length head studs.
05-17-2014, 05:30 PM
#63
Drifting
05-17-2014, 05:32 PM
#64
Drifting
Not an issue to me, just some seem to think the only option is the S2/968 block.
05-17-2014, 05:42 PM
#65
Drifting
I've got to start proofing my posts. Look like an idiot. Working on the car, coming in for a cold drink, posting, leaving. Creating issues with incorrect data. Sorry.
05-17-2014, 05:47 PM
#66
Drifting
http://www.928motorsports.com/services/uschrome.php
Off topic, but this is why I've considered having my older 928 block done with nikasil liners before blowing it. Another factor is I haven't found anyone in the US that restores alusil. There's an outfit called Kuhn Performance (http://www.kuhnperformance.com/model...nder-treatment) that does the nikasil treatment on 944 and 928 turbos.
05-17-2014, 05:47 PM
#67
Rennlist Member
At last (using multiple hints from this thread) I think I've verified at least the '86 Turbo Cup cars were 8V heads. This at least narrows some of my options. http://www.supercars.net/cars/5644.html I'm still not clear on whether a 3.0L Cup Car was ever built, or if that effort became the 968.
It stands to reason that since the cars were built in Europe they would be 8V heads. My understanding is the 32V head was introduced to meet US emissions and was of no benefit for track cars. At least that's what I've been told about the 928.
Ooops. Should have read "16V head" not 32V. Thinking 944 but typing 928
It stands to reason that since the cars were built in Europe they would be 8V heads. My understanding is the 32V head was introduced to meet US emissions and was of no benefit for track cars. At least that's what I've been told about the 928.
Ooops. Should have read "16V head" not 32V. Thinking 944 but typing 928
05-17-2014, 06:27 PM
#68
Drifting
05-17-2014, 07:08 PM
#70
Team Owner
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op,
do you have the slightest idea what you're about to do to your pristine suburban existence? or how difficult the Porsche Turbo 4 engine is to build, tune, beat on and come back for more? or the endless beat up recycled junk you'll constantly be dealing with? do you know the factory stopped selling 968T (the proper turbo 4 engine) parts (as well as the now impossible to find 968T transmission) a year or two after the cars left the factory??..... there's an end-around in the afterworld, but, these guys are a rare breed... they walk between the raindrops with these cars. the history of the 944T is a long littered road of pain, failed headgaskets, rod-bearings, over-boosted engines that blew up on the dyno, endless builds that went bad, failed marriages and death.... the guys talking to you today are the survivors; incredible do-yourself-mechanics... treat them with respect... be patient. go slow. learn all you can. and they'll help you to no end......
I'm a big fan of the 3.0 Turbo. wish I was rich and I could afford one.
weigh your options. there are many solid choices out there....
used GTR, 370Z running boost, Vette, 996, Cayman/Boxster w/ 6psi Turbos, 944/S2/968 V8, and more....
when you build your car, don't run too much boost. 400 hp is a lot of power for the 3.0. stay close to that, and you can end up w/ a fine car. shoot for the moon, and soon, you'll be fixing a range of partially blown~fully dead motors.
good luck.
do you have the slightest idea what you're about to do to your pristine suburban existence? or how difficult the Porsche Turbo 4 engine is to build, tune, beat on and come back for more? or the endless beat up recycled junk you'll constantly be dealing with? do you know the factory stopped selling 968T (the proper turbo 4 engine) parts (as well as the now impossible to find 968T transmission) a year or two after the cars left the factory??..... there's an end-around in the afterworld, but, these guys are a rare breed... they walk between the raindrops with these cars. the history of the 944T is a long littered road of pain, failed headgaskets, rod-bearings, over-boosted engines that blew up on the dyno, endless builds that went bad, failed marriages and death.... the guys talking to you today are the survivors; incredible do-yourself-mechanics... treat them with respect... be patient. go slow. learn all you can. and they'll help you to no end......
I'm a big fan of the 3.0 Turbo. wish I was rich and I could afford one.
weigh your options. there are many solid choices out there....
used GTR, 370Z running boost, Vette, 996, Cayman/Boxster w/ 6psi Turbos, 944/S2/968 V8, and more....
when you build your car, don't run too much boost. 400 hp is a lot of power for the 3.0. stay close to that, and you can end up w/ a fine car. shoot for the moon, and soon, you'll be fixing a range of partially blown~fully dead motors.
good luck.
Last edited by odurandina; 05-17-2014 at 09:15 PM.
05-17-2014, 08:14 PM
#71
Drifting
As the slayer of Economic Optimism, I've got to say your post is valid. Weird there are a few of us that just like the engineering merits of these cars. It's neat to see the new turbo motors coming out from BMW, Ford, especially the newer DI TD engines. The new 2 series 2.0 TT motors are easily seeing mid 300hp and tq numbers using the stock turbos. I remember when mid 300whp and tq from the 951's was the holy grail in terms of packaged goods using the factory motronic with chip sets burned to your a/f requirements.
I've tracked a few nice aftermarket turbo cars, but the reliability issues with the HPF M3 kits required a full rebuild fairly quickly along with the issues towards brakes, cooling, etc. I've driven 150K blown M3's that were wicked fast, but not as fun as expected. If you want a sports car that will move from 80 to 120 in about 5 seconds, brake with the best, and have some reliability, you are better off buying the car designed from the factory with boost pressure built into the motor as designed with extensive engineering towards the entire car. Doing this with the 951 or 968 requires extensive skill, known part vendors, and expertise with these engines, even when someone else is doing most of the wrenching. The upkeep of these one off cars isn't for most. Expert Porsche technicians don't know where to start with these cars, unless you just need balance shaft belts, brakes, etc. The keen temperament of these cars requires the owner to have skills and knowledge that takes years to develop.
Sid and others designing the hybrid motors is keenly a work of tremendous R & D, with shared issues, with continued development.
Chris White has a 968 Cab that is turbo charged. He's running 8psi, but the bottom end is stock. I'm sure it's a blast to drive. Chris may share his engineering expertise if this is the route you want to take.
We'll see what transpires in terms of the values of these cars, but know you are better off buying a car that has others blood, money, and tears into the car. There are deals that come up now and then. They ALL need work after purchase to get everything up to snuff.
Good luck with whatever choice you make. Go to: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQe...jIcL2UmbwBSD5g to see some CRUDE I Phone videos of my car with 15psi prior to breaking an axle. Waiting on the new axles under warranty to be shipped.
G
I've tracked a few nice aftermarket turbo cars, but the reliability issues with the HPF M3 kits required a full rebuild fairly quickly along with the issues towards brakes, cooling, etc. I've driven 150K blown M3's that were wicked fast, but not as fun as expected. If you want a sports car that will move from 80 to 120 in about 5 seconds, brake with the best, and have some reliability, you are better off buying the car designed from the factory with boost pressure built into the motor as designed with extensive engineering towards the entire car. Doing this with the 951 or 968 requires extensive skill, known part vendors, and expertise with these engines, even when someone else is doing most of the wrenching. The upkeep of these one off cars isn't for most. Expert Porsche technicians don't know where to start with these cars, unless you just need balance shaft belts, brakes, etc. The keen temperament of these cars requires the owner to have skills and knowledge that takes years to develop.
Sid and others designing the hybrid motors is keenly a work of tremendous R & D, with shared issues, with continued development.
Chris White has a 968 Cab that is turbo charged. He's running 8psi, but the bottom end is stock. I'm sure it's a blast to drive. Chris may share his engineering expertise if this is the route you want to take.
We'll see what transpires in terms of the values of these cars, but know you are better off buying a car that has others blood, money, and tears into the car. There are deals that come up now and then. They ALL need work after purchase to get everything up to snuff.
Good luck with whatever choice you make. Go to: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQe...jIcL2UmbwBSD5g to see some CRUDE I Phone videos of my car with 15psi prior to breaking an axle. Waiting on the new axles under warranty to be shipped.
G
05-17-2014, 08:40 PM
#72
Drifting
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Or better yet, go to the 944 turbo page on FB and watch Sid's awesome machine take down a big block Chevy on just a low psi shakedown run. This engine can be built for a quarter of what is would take to properly build a 16V turbo beast motor. He drives his car an hour to the drag strip drag races it all night and drives it home. If that is not a torture test I don't know what is.
05-17-2014, 09:44 PM
#73
Drifting
Agree, Sid is an expert with these cars from motor to drive wheels. His R & D shared is very helpful for all that love these bastard Porsche cars. Trust, it's surprising to drive to the track with AC, stereo, helmet and suit in the back and have some new fans after a few laps. It's fun to be the surprise.
G
G
05-17-2014, 10:32 PM
#74
Drifting
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As if the rest of us don't have Porsche Bastard cars? How many original parts do you have left? Any good engine out there today has been pretty much totally gutted or modded in some sort of fashion. Pretty sure Frankenstein was a Bastard!
05-18-2014, 01:10 AM
#75
Race Car
Thanks for all the kind words. I truly am just trying to keep a spark alive in these old machines (the bastards in the Porsche world) for a price suited to the 951 platform. I am continually amazed at how expensive it can get to build a solid platform. Especially taking the Porsche aftermarket route (not a slam, just the truth). But then, every time I drive my car I fall in love with it once again!!!
Good luck to you whatever route you take to accomplishing your goals.
Good luck to you whatever route you take to accomplishing your goals.