bfle21

I posted this in the 944/944 S2 forum as well. Little bit of background first. I have been doing a few DE events every year for the last 8-9 years. I started with a 996 and moved to an '87 930 (911 turbo) a few years ago. While I love driving the 930 on the track, the wear and tear I am putting on the car are adding up and I really don't want to turn this into a full blown track car. Which brings me to this post. I am thinking of buying a dedicated track car and keeping the 930 as a weekend driver/investment type car. I know that I do want a track car without any traction/stability, etc... I love the lack of driver aids on my 930 compared to the 996. With that in mind, the 944 range seems to be what I am looking for. I am hoping there is somebody with an opinion they could share on the pro's/cons off the 944/944 S/944S2 vs the 944 turbo as a dedicated track car. Specifically, are there dramatic differences in running costs on the track? With light modification, is the S2 the way to go vs the turbo? Are there red flags to look for on these cars? After some online research, it looks like a can get a fairly decent track prepped S2 for around the $9-14k mark which is where I want to be. I've never owned or driven anything in the 944 range so I'm not sure what questions to be asking.

Dougs951

A properly maintained S2 will run till the end of time, and by maintained I mean oil changes and cam pad changes.

The main problem with the S2's is you are limited to close to stock power without spending a boat load of cash. But in stock or mildly stock form they use that power very well.

The main problem IMO with turbo's is all the engine wiring and engine seals are normally cooked by the heat from the turbo system. But with some relatively cheap mods they can make huge HP gains to keep up with the chassis improvements.

Thats my take on it.

Paulyy

+1

with some easy mods on the turbo. you can get some nice power and a good amount of torque to get out of the bends quickly!

333pg333

I'd agree with Doug and Pauly. I would think that coming from your 930 you are going to miss the boost by going with an S2.
The n/a car will give you less grief as there is a lot less underhood temp going on and less general stresses to the transmission etc.
But, if you are able to buy a well setup Turbo and maintain it, you will get a lot more satisfaction from it.

fejjj

I am with Patrick here!

If you are used to driving a 930 on the track, the S2 will put you to sleep.

67King

Depends on what you want to do. There's no question that the Turbo can be faster. If you want to DE it, but not race it, and tinker with the car, the Turbos is really hard to beat. But, there's a saying - fast, cheap, and reliable......which 2 of the 3 do you want? I've not run a complete session for hte past 7 weekends I've had my turbo at the track. That stretches over 2 years (and I've not even attempted some because of issues). So no matter how slow an NA car is, it is still faster than a non-running turbo. If money is no object, sure you can turn it over to a shop, and Brian Weathered's shop (Midwest Eurosport) is a good one in your vicinity. But I think most of us 944 guys do most stuff ourselves.

To put it in perspective, I've gotten so frustrated with mine that I bought a 968. Will have it in my possession in a few weeks. But I've just gotten tired of not running because of a random assortment of issues.

Antonio

We have an '86 turbo and a '90 S2 in the family, both dedicated SCCA race cars. Both cars have pros and cons but for diametrically different reasons. Let me start with the S2. It is simpler to maintain, pretty reliable and has nice, linear power delivery. But it is difficult to get more power out of the engine and engine parts are expensive and are getting difficult to find new or used. On the other hand the turbo is more complex, generally not quite as reliable but you can get gobs of power out of it very easily and inexpensively. Parts are abundant both new and used and there is an excellent network of vendors that specialize in the 944 turbo. On the track the turbo is almost always quicker but not by as much as the 100+ RWHP advantage would suggest. IMO, if reliability and ease of ownership you are after, the S2 is the better choice. If you like to tinker with your car and you want to go faster, the turbo might it be for you. With either car you can't go wrong. By the way, often I see excellent, track-prepared 944s for sale, mostly turbos, for not a lot of money. Almost always makes more sense to buy a track-prepared car rather than building one from a street car.

bfle21

Thank you for the feedback! This discussion has reluctantly pulled me back into the "spend more, go faster" camp of the 944 turbo vs S2 (sorry, I don't know the engine designations of these cars yet. Still in research mode). I do love driving turbocharged cars (I started at 16 in a Merkur XR4ti - 2.0 L turbocharged 4cyl and I have been hooked ever since)! I am torn though. I really dislike the Monday morning trip to my mechanic after a weekend at the track. And my wrenching skills are novice at best, so doing my own work is probably not going to happen. Going to wait for a few more inputs. Hoping somebody tells me that for a small investment, I can make an S2 as fast as a turbo. BOOST IS ADDICTIVE though. Thanks again! I appreciate your thoughts!

CRM...

Reliability is #1 on my list, since without a trailer, I have to drive to/from the track. 86 944 turbo has made the trip 26 times, only 1 time towed back. Blown head gasket while running at 17.5 boost, so really who do I blame for that... the car? You turn the black **** and take your chances. One time the front swaybar link retired, but still could drive it home. Rear brake caliper bolt backed out on the way home from the track one time. THAT could have been interesting if it had happened an hour earlier but 5 minute repair and I finished trip home. Added checking caliper bolt torque to pre-track list. That is the total list of problems on 152K mile car. Now, the car was well prepared when I bought it and I have had everything done that these cars need and maintain the car well. Overall, I can't say I've seen anyone at the track do better with a 944 N/A, or most any "older" car for that matter. The day will come when the old motor parts with some moving parts and I'll move on with no regrets.

Chris White

I think I have to correct Harry (not a common event) - for a 30 year old car that you want to track you only get 1 out of 3, maybe 1 1/2 if you are lucky!

Seriously - its the same chassis so it just comes down to what you want it to do. People that have done a lot of track driving will understand that power does not make much of a difference where it matters on the track. speed in a straight line is 'driver skill independent' - any fool with money can go fast in a straight line. The same is true with braking to a slightly lesser degree, you do need some skill to threshold brake well. Once you get into the corners its comes down to driver skill followed by the chassis capability.

I was just at Watkins Glen last weekend for a DE - driving my mostly stock Mini Cooper S out in the instructors group. 135k miles on the stock suspension and regular street tires. I gave an old friend a ride and he freaked out that I was closing on GT3s in the tight corners and my favorite high speed left (turn 10). The Mini is light a very well balanced - no need of big power to have fun.

So (back to the point) take a good look at what you want out of track driving. A well set up NA will be better in the corners just because you can modulate the throttle. Turbos do not respond quickly and crisply enough to have useful throttle modulation in the corners.

On the other hand - it you enjoy tinkering with engines then the turbo has some nice benefits - you can up the power and tweak it as much as your budget permits.

Conclusion -
Arrive and drive - S2 (its just about the driving experience)
fast and tinkering - turbo. (its about driving AND tweaking the car)

BTW - one of my favorite customer cars to drive was a S2 powered early NA. Light and a real sleeper!