vt951

JWebber

Those classes I mentioned earlier , have to do with reflashing factory ECUs and other tuning aspects . I`m looking for the necessary software to handle all the mods that would be needed . So far the harness is pretty straight forward . just have to move a few things around , cut and repin on the engine side of the harness . The chassis side of the ECU , I still need to find the pinout for it . I know a lot of the wires coming out , but still need to figure out the rest . Info is king when doing wiring .

Droops83

At the very beginning of this thread there was mention of someone making a VEMS "plug and play" kit for the 07K? That would be ideal with a custom, turbocharged application instead of trying to deal with re-flashing the factory ECU. Going back to the early 2000s, Bosch ECUs use a torque-based fuel model with numerous overlying tables and can be difficult to tune properly. Not impossible, many have done it, but it is quite iterative.

A popular standalone like VEMS, Megasquirt, Link, Haltech, etc would be much more straightforward to tune, much more flexible (most of these can be had with built-in WBO2 control, built-in electronic boost control, etc) and you could easily adapt a cable throttle if you don't want to mess with tuning a drive-by-wire setup. However, these ECUs can control drive-by-wire throttles and variable camshaft timing as well.

If it weren't for CA BAR/smog difficulties in making this swap street-legal, I'd already be on this. I could use my existing VEMS ECU!

JWebber

I would love to be able to drop the money on A MS3 Pro EVO , but with all the other parts needed , that would make this take a lot more time for me . I`m looking at running the engine NA for starters . I have over 15 years in the VW/Audi world and have made a few friends in the tuning world , so for me this is the fastest route to having the engine running .

Droops83

That makes sense. It would be fairly straightforward to make an adapter harness down the road when you are ready for standalone/boost.

I appreciate all of the work you guys are putting in, this is certainly top of the list for me in terms of what to do about my tired stock 951 engine (CA legality notwithstanding).

Has anyone weighed this engine and compared it to a 951 long block and/or a 1.8T long block? I am curious if the 1.8T setup is as light as MWR claims . . . . .

JWebber

Correction ,,,,,,,,,,, I had a guy message me back about the VSS . It is not always used to calculate fueling and ignition . I found a really good site for the Bosch ECU stuff .

Well ,,,,,,, I finally got a wiring diagram . Good news it that everything I had pulled out and labeled is right . Bad news is that the ECU seems to get the VSS signal over the CAN network from the ABS module . If I have to add modules in order to trick the ECU and do a lot of programming tricks ,, Might as well sell something else and just go with the standalone . Oh well , at least I have all of the correct engine connectors .

vt951

I have not weighed either, but I'll go ahead and create some new internet facts. :-) It sounds like the 07K weighs about 350 lbs with accessories (from the thread linked below). I figure it will shave 30 to 50 lbs off of a 951 or aluminum block LS swap (which are both ~400 lb) and the 07K weight is shifted rearward a few inches because of the rear timing chain setup. Not sure how much a 1.8T weighs, but I would guess four-fifths of 350 lbs since they are similar in construction. So 280 lb? Or maybe 350 lbs x 1.8 / 2.5 = 252 lbs? Personally, I'm willing to pay a little weight tax for the 5-cylinder, but to each his own.

http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=244&start=25

JWebber

A final update on using the factory ecu , It can be done if you are willing to spend the money for the tuning software or spend countless hours looking for a pirate copy and possibly brick the ecu . With that being said , on to planning out another route . Alan ,, is the intake you have drawn up designed to use the factory fuel rail mounting points ?

vt951

Yes, the mounting points and injector ports are same as factory. So, the factory rail can be used, or any aftermarket replacement that fits an 07K should fit this intake.

Thanks for looking into the factory ECU. So, for anyone who may want to run the engine NA and stock-ish, is the factory ECU useable as a "standalone", ie not connected to other VW modules such as body module or ABS module?

senior_squishy

I was wondering the same thing; whether or not it could be ran without those components for a simple NA build. If not, maybe we could find some sort of documentation to figure out if it can be bypassed with a microcontroller or jumper of some sort.

V2Rocket

...wonder if you could (with plenty of work) adapt a GM I-5 ECU (late-00's Colorado/Canyon/H3) ?

senior_squishy

I mean.... If they're the same displacement, you could just plug the injectors and spark wires to the correct spots for the 07k, but then you'd have to make sure the tps, maf, and the other sensors are compatible, which would be a lot of work figuring out the pulse widths and then you'd be right back to square one, modifying things to get something else to work.
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V2Rocket

yea, but the GM ECU's are long-since cracked and tuneable by most local shops if you can't DIY.
GM made 3.5/3.7L so displacement is higher but that can be adjusted in the tune...

senior_squishy

This is true. I'd be interested in seeing what kind of steps could be taken to achieve this. I'll probably be obtaining a DIY megasquirt 3 kit for about half the price of an assembled one, taking a nice warm spring day and go to town with some solder. Seems like the option that allows the most control IMHO. Less hoops to jump through.

Droops83

Any additional cost involved with an actual standalone like the MS3, VEMS, etc will pay for itself in terms of customization down the road (can easily dial in any changes to the engine/fuel/ignition system), and the ones I mentioned above are easy to tune, and are popular so there is a large knowledge base if you need help.

In terms of a wiring harness, if building a complete harness from scratch is too much work, an adapter harness from your ECU to the factory 07K engine harness would probably be easier, along with a sub-harness for the additional sensors and inputs/outputs needed.

A quick Google search also found a couple of sources for custom plug-and-play harnesses:

https://vemsdotlive.wordpress.com/products/

A place called "EFI Express" makes the VEMS 07K harnesses for older Audis for IROZ, I found a post on Facebook about it with pricing but couldn't link it here.