refresh951

Honda rods?

DDP

That's because most motors don't have a decent camshaft for some reason. Put out some money, get a proper camshaft and you'll see proper gains out of your engine. Running a stock cam in a full out stroker seems silly to me. Cams seem like one of the last things people do in the 944 world and it doesn't make sense. In my experience, substantial gains are seen when a real cam is used (not 944 NA cam). A cam upgrade should be 10 steps before a full stroker build in my opinion. You'll get far more out of your build with one. Two of the largest improvements I've seen in the 944 is aggressive timing and then a camshaft. When combined, the engine really wakes up.

I really like the project. Definitely a great bang for the buck engine build.

refresh951

Appreciate the input. The whole idea of this build is to not "put out the money". I would definitely spend the money if I could see significant gains for the intended use. Be interested in seeing some results. Sid's car seems to have done "decent" with the stock cam. I have not been overly impressed with the 3L cars I have been in that had high performance cams especially in the area of drivability. I am sure the cam selection makes all the difference.

DDP

What I mean by "put out the money", which, by the way, wasn't meant in a derogatory manner, is put the correct amount of money into the most beneficial upgrade. What camshafts were in the 3 liter cars? I would guess WebCam. Milledge's cams have far and beyond, speaking from my experience, the most gains. Also, tuning is critically when it comes to aftermarket cams. They will completely change the dynamic of the engine, and therefore timing must be adjusted. Simply adding a Webcam and hoping for the best would give a terrible result. A camshaft focusing on higher RPM power may seem sluggish at the low end. This low end sluggishness can be corrected with more timing which would make it more responsive. In this way, you're making as little sacrifice as possible while still producing more high end power. Sid has done great, absolutely, however, even he knows he needs a larger cam. Are you planning on running as much boost as Sid, though? I would guess not. Therefore, maximize your VE with a larger cam. We're already pretty handicapped with the 8v head, might as well help it out with a camshaft. Your bottom end will be capable of quite a bit while your top end will be holding it back. The engine must be treated as a complete system, if one piece is seriously lacking, the engine may be held back. Sure it'll work and you'll see some gains, but why not maximize it's potential?

I should also mention if you're worried about idle - I've had 160 lbs injectors on E85 and ~10 vacuum camshaft with a near stock idle. That was a very aggressive cam, no problems. Although I must admit I had a ton of timing advance at idle.

refresh951

I really do appreciate your input on this. I have seen some of the stuff you have done and it is impressive. My approach on this has been to baseline using the stock cam as it is easy to change the cam later. Getting the "right" cam is probably going to take some trial and error. Down the road I will probably look long and hard at this. Thanks for the input on the Milledge cams. Initially I plan to meet my cost goals. I will be running boost well into the 20's and will be running very aggressive timing. BTW I believe the 3L's I mentioned were using WebCam camshafts.

refresh951

Bought a late NA camshaft Monday from a lister for $40 shipped and it arrived today. Looks to be in a bit better shape than my turbo cam.

michaelmount123

I presume you've checked the part number on the camshaft to ensure it's the right one. Also, look at the edges of the lobes: they should be neatly chamfered (machine done, not hand done). Some of these old cams have been reground to another spec. If so, they are usually marked on the end of the cam with the outfit (Elgin, Web, DRC, etc.) and the grind number. The lobes are usually hand chamfered on the regrinds too.

Rule of thumb is NEVER use old lifters unless reinstalling on the original (mated) cam, and on the original lobes. Ideally, you should use new lifters on this used cam, but the 2V followers are crazy expensive at the moment and hard to ju$tify. You may be wiling to risk a wiped lobe by using old lifters. Your call to accept the risk. If you use your old ones, run them in with a racing oil (high ZDDP) and above 2000rpm for 20 minutes or so.

Good purchase on that cam!

Scott H

Holy. Crap. $232, each. At that point you may as well send it to LR for the solid lifter conversion.

refresh951

Michael,

Yep, part number is correct. Great point about the regrind, never thought about that. Thanks again!

I think I will risk it.

URG8RB8

I wouldn't risk it and as stated above went with LR and ordered the solid lifter upgrade. Of course "Doing it right" or by the book doesn't go hand in hand with this type of build. I have heard of some shops polishing/resurfacing the used lifters though, might consider that. Anxiously awaiting the results!

refresh951

I have done this before with no ill effects. I am not to worried about it. I like the input to run them in with high ZDDP oil.

URG8RB8

That has been a given for years now, hopefully you always run high ZDDP oil in any engine from the 80's. Keeping with the "Low Budget" theme I would suggest the correct weight Valvoline VR1 non-synthetic on the cheap and Synthetic for a little more. Great price on a great oil. The Joe Gibb's break in oil sure is nice though for initial start-ups.

refresh951

Tonight I installed the head. This Cometic is a far better product than one I installed on the 2.85L. Dave Lindsey called me back and told what had happened with the last Cometic I bought and why it looked different than the new one I recieved. He told me a few years ago they realized that the the Cometic had some issues, especially around the coolant ear (I can verify this!). Turns out the design was taken from the 928 and Cometic tried to make it work for both platforms. Cometic agreed to redesign specifically for the 944 but that the 103 mm gasket is not a real high selling item therefore LR still had the old design in inventory and apparently I got the last one Why a known bad product was sold to me I am not sure. Thanks to a tip from Sid , in the future I think I will buy these gaskets directly from Cometic as they are cheaper, they have a bigger selection, and maybe I will have a better chance of getting the latest design.

http://www.shopengineparts.com/parts...model=944+2.5L

This time I applied copper spray to both sides. Torqued the head in three stages, 30 ftlbs, 60 ftlbs, and 80 ftlbs. Tomorrow, after they have sat over-night, I will back them off one at a time and do a final torque to 87 ftlbs.

Reimu

Lindsey Racing has pulled the same thing with me and was eerily unapologetic about it. I've heard good things about using the copper spray on them.

CyCloNe!

Very nice Shawn, what size Head Gasket did you use for this build?