T-Bar Delete with Roll Center correction and Rod ends. COMPLETE!
12-19-2014, 01:50 PM
#166
Rennlist Member
12-19-2014, 02:08 PM
#167
Drifting
Sure if a Rennlister wants it with the knowledge that it needs some reinforcement to be used we can make a deal. Mine was never installed, but has the stock location suspension pickup points to comply with some rules. My local racing rules are changing so I can't use this piece anyway anymore.
12-19-2014, 02:13 PM
#168
Three Wheelin'
Sure if a Rennlister wants it with the knowledge that it needs some reinforcement to be used we can make a deal. Mine was never installed, but has the stock location suspension pickup points to comply with some rules. My local racing rules are changing so I can't use this piece anyway anymore.
12-19-2014, 10:15 PM
#170
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Location: Austin TX, drinking beer in the garage
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As a mechanical engineering student, this is all real interesting to me. Really speaks volumes about the need for proper R&D and why OEM's spend millions on just that. Sorry the lesson had to be such a harsh one for some listers. Most of all I'm glad no one was injured or sustained losses as a result of the failures.
12-19-2014, 10:59 PM
#171
Three Wheelin'
Is the beam section and material comparable to the Vision/Kokeln design? If so, then the inherent strength and stiffness will be comparable.
If so, and the Vision/Kokeln units are known not to fail, then something else is going on.
Let's look at the whole DMIOM process: Design/Manufacturing/Installation/Operation/Maintenance
If not geometry or material (design), and field data doesn't suggest an application problem (installation/operation/maintenance), then manufacturing might be worth further investigation.
Is it possible that the bending is due to residual stresses from the welding process?
The relatively benign nature of the problem suggests this may be so. All of the photos I've seen thus far indicate a gentle arc of bending, not a sharp kink.
In this case, if the stresses can be relieved by PWHT then the problem should go away and the piece should be fine to use. You may want to discuss this further before you dispose of these pieces.
Cheers,
Mike
If so, and the Vision/Kokeln units are known not to fail, then something else is going on.
Let's look at the whole DMIOM process: Design/Manufacturing/Installation/Operation/Maintenance
If not geometry or material (design), and field data doesn't suggest an application problem (installation/operation/maintenance), then manufacturing might be worth further investigation.
Is it possible that the bending is due to residual stresses from the welding process?
The relatively benign nature of the problem suggests this may be so. All of the photos I've seen thus far indicate a gentle arc of bending, not a sharp kink.
In this case, if the stresses can be relieved by PWHT then the problem should go away and the piece should be fine to use. You may want to discuss this further before you dispose of these pieces.
Cheers,
Mike
12-19-2014, 11:33 PM
#172
Rennlist Member
Tony, I am in for one also.
12-21-2014, 03:28 AM
#173
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Good god. This hurts so much to look at. I haven't been on here for quite a while, and have all but left my project in a dust covered pile.
I am a whole human now, but was not doing so well for most of last year. Unfortunately that ruined me financially. I am currently working hard to recover from that.
I am pretty sick just looking at this. I have no way to rectify it or have any words or ability to make it better to anyone.
Since the one bent bar before Patrick's was a 2x2, I tried to Hussle before I got even more sick, to re-make everyone who bought a 2x2 bar a 2x3 bar at no cost. I was hoping this would avoid this issue.
Patrick's bend is now the second bar to bend and the first 2x3? Or was there anyone else?
Extremely large load and downforce or not, It still bent.
I couldn't see paying the $2500 for the Vision piece, so I made this bar for me and my car, and was asked to make more and more as the word and pics were seen. I truly just wanted to help everyone out and make a cool part.
It took me over a week of fabricating and was seriously just not worth the money. After the first bend / failure, I immediately stopped selling these and turned everyone down from there on out. Not only because of the failure, but because of my inability to continue.
In hindsight, I regret ever selling these, and wish I never did. But like I said, I thought at the time I was helping.
It seems some with lower spring rates and light cars are doing o.k., so far, but damn.
additionally; I didn't make the center tabs because I could not get them to fit well on that very first bar, and noticed that many of the Kolken pieces were missing those too.
I can only thank god that neither people were harmed from the bends and Patrick and/or Co Driver is O.K. from the broken pivot bolt.
- Patrick, I'm guessing the Pivot bolt and spacer in your most recent yellow and black picture is the one your guys replaced my broken bolt with.
I am a whole human now, but was not doing so well for most of last year. Unfortunately that ruined me financially. I am currently working hard to recover from that.
I am pretty sick just looking at this. I have no way to rectify it or have any words or ability to make it better to anyone.
Since the one bent bar before Patrick's was a 2x2, I tried to Hussle before I got even more sick, to re-make everyone who bought a 2x2 bar a 2x3 bar at no cost. I was hoping this would avoid this issue.
Patrick's bend is now the second bar to bend and the first 2x3? Or was there anyone else?
Extremely large load and downforce or not, It still bent.
I couldn't see paying the $2500 for the Vision piece, so I made this bar for me and my car, and was asked to make more and more as the word and pics were seen. I truly just wanted to help everyone out and make a cool part.
It took me over a week of fabricating and was seriously just not worth the money. After the first bend / failure, I immediately stopped selling these and turned everyone down from there on out. Not only because of the failure, but because of my inability to continue.
In hindsight, I regret ever selling these, and wish I never did. But like I said, I thought at the time I was helping.
It seems some with lower spring rates and light cars are doing o.k., so far, but damn.
additionally; I didn't make the center tabs because I could not get them to fit well on that very first bar, and noticed that many of the Kolken pieces were missing those too.
I can only thank god that neither people were harmed from the bends and Patrick and/or Co Driver is O.K. from the broken pivot bolt.
- Patrick, I'm guessing the Pivot bolt and spacer in your most recent yellow and black picture is the one your guys replaced my broken bolt with.
Last edited by 95ONE; 12-21-2014 at 04:18 AM.
12-21-2014, 12:27 PM
#174
Rennlist Member
Bruce - Good to see you here. I am glad to hear that you are attempting to make this right. Very sorry about your heath issues. I personally have missed your input around here.
12-21-2014, 01:23 PM
#175
Hope you are getting better. Sorry to hear.
Good god. This hurts so much to look at. I haven't been on here for quite a while, and have all but left my project in a dust covered pile.
I am a whole human now, but was not doing so well for most of last year. Unfortunately that ruined me financially. I am currently working hard to recover from that.
I am pretty sick just looking at this. I have no way to rectify it or have any words or ability to make it better to anyone.
Since the one bent bar before Patrick's was a 2x2, I tried to Hussle before I got even more sick, to re-make everyone who bought a 2x2 bar a 2x3 bar at no cost. I was hoping this would avoid this issue.
Patrick's bend is now the second bar to bend and the first 2x3? Or was there anyone else?
Extremely large load and downforce or not, It still bent.
I couldn't see paying the $2500 for the Vision piece, so I made this bar for me and my car, and was asked to make more and more as the word and pics were seen. I truly just wanted to help everyone out and make a cool part.
It took me over a week of fabricating and was seriously just not worth the money. After the first bend / failure, I immediately stopped selling these and turned everyone down from there on out. Not only because of the failure, but because of my inability to continue.
In hindsight, I regret ever selling these, and wish I never did. But like I said, I thought at the time I was helping.
It seems some with lower spring rates and light cars are doing o.k., so far, but damn.
additionally; I didn't make the center tabs because I could not get them to fit well on that very first bar, and noticed that many of the Kolken pieces were missing those too.
I can only thank god that neither people were harmed from the bends and Patrick and/or Co Driver is O.K. from the broken pivot bolt.
- Patrick, I'm guessing the Pivot bolt and spacer in your most recent yellow and black picture is the one your guys replaced my broken bolt with.
I am a whole human now, but was not doing so well for most of last year. Unfortunately that ruined me financially. I am currently working hard to recover from that.
I am pretty sick just looking at this. I have no way to rectify it or have any words or ability to make it better to anyone.
Since the one bent bar before Patrick's was a 2x2, I tried to Hussle before I got even more sick, to re-make everyone who bought a 2x2 bar a 2x3 bar at no cost. I was hoping this would avoid this issue.
Patrick's bend is now the second bar to bend and the first 2x3? Or was there anyone else?
Extremely large load and downforce or not, It still bent.
I couldn't see paying the $2500 for the Vision piece, so I made this bar for me and my car, and was asked to make more and more as the word and pics were seen. I truly just wanted to help everyone out and make a cool part.
It took me over a week of fabricating and was seriously just not worth the money. After the first bend / failure, I immediately stopped selling these and turned everyone down from there on out. Not only because of the failure, but because of my inability to continue.
In hindsight, I regret ever selling these, and wish I never did. But like I said, I thought at the time I was helping.
It seems some with lower spring rates and light cars are doing o.k., so far, but damn.
additionally; I didn't make the center tabs because I could not get them to fit well on that very first bar, and noticed that many of the Kolken pieces were missing those too.
I can only thank god that neither people were harmed from the bends and Patrick and/or Co Driver is O.K. from the broken pivot bolt.
- Patrick, I'm guessing the Pivot bolt and spacer in your most recent yellow and black picture is the one your guys replaced my broken bolt with.
12-21-2014, 02:47 PM
#177
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Thank you Refresh and Grushy. I have felt around 100% about 3-4 months now. Every now and then I get some of the weird symptoms, but they are extremely mild and no longer an issue. It has completely changed my outlook / life though. Back in April, I was wearing a heart monitor and my heart just forgot to beat for 3.5 seconds. It wasn't a heart attack or anything, just severe arrhythmia. (one of 20 severe symptoms) That too has just become almost non existent, although I now take a light dose of blood pressure medicine to make sure it stays happy. This was also found to be the reason for coughing and gasping for breathe when I got up too fast. The biggest problem was just the extreme lack of energy to anything. including walk a short distance.
There was no actual diagnosis. Just a million doctors with no clue what to do other than prescribe pills. I was pretty naive about the medical industry until this happened. I thought they could find everything with just one blood test before this.
It was just ridiculous things like that, that kept me from doing anything and worrying the crap outta me.
My health is now fantastic - relatively - and I am able to work my *** off again. I no longer have a sales job and now work as a full time Fabricator. I know, I know, but I don't actually DESIGN any of the parts I make. The shop has an engineer and they run a 1.5 safety factor on Solid works using FEA. I'm now only paid hourly, and they keep me extremely busy and now I have absolutely no time for myself. It's very ironic. "water water everywhere and not a drop to drink" sort of thing.
Anyway, About these bars. In time. If anyone still wants to... If you guys want to return your bars for major reinforcement of the main cross bar, I can do that. But I can't completely remake these again as the plasma machine and designs are long gone. It will take a VERY LONG TIME for me to get to everyone. I can only accept only one bar at a time. The tabs everyone is asking for is extremely difficult to make fit for everyone as the holes have to be dead on and the tolerance on each car for these suspensions is extremely different from one car to the next. I don't think they would match up to anyone's car if I tried.
I'm sure Tony can confirm if his vision bar has these tabs or not? -
Patrick was the first sale and has first dibs if he should want me to even mess with it at all.
- I cringe to offer this as It will take a very long time to accomplish and probably just make more people upset for having to wait. But it is just all that I can do. And I'd rather try something rather than nothing.
There was no actual diagnosis. Just a million doctors with no clue what to do other than prescribe pills. I was pretty naive about the medical industry until this happened. I thought they could find everything with just one blood test before this.
It was just ridiculous things like that, that kept me from doing anything and worrying the crap outta me.
My health is now fantastic - relatively - and I am able to work my *** off again. I no longer have a sales job and now work as a full time Fabricator. I know, I know, but I don't actually DESIGN any of the parts I make. The shop has an engineer and they run a 1.5 safety factor on Solid works using FEA. I'm now only paid hourly, and they keep me extremely busy and now I have absolutely no time for myself. It's very ironic. "water water everywhere and not a drop to drink" sort of thing.
Anyway, About these bars. In time. If anyone still wants to... If you guys want to return your bars for major reinforcement of the main cross bar, I can do that. But I can't completely remake these again as the plasma machine and designs are long gone. It will take a VERY LONG TIME for me to get to everyone. I can only accept only one bar at a time. The tabs everyone is asking for is extremely difficult to make fit for everyone as the holes have to be dead on and the tolerance on each car for these suspensions is extremely different from one car to the next. I don't think they would match up to anyone's car if I tried.
I'm sure Tony can confirm if his vision bar has these tabs or not? -
Patrick was the first sale and has first dibs if he should want me to even mess with it at all.
- I cringe to offer this as It will take a very long time to accomplish and probably just make more people upset for having to wait. But it is just all that I can do. And I'd rather try something rather than nothing.
Last edited by 95ONE; 12-21-2014 at 03:09 PM.
12-21-2014, 04:34 PM
#178
Rennlist Member
Hi Bruce. I am also glad to see you on the board again. Major health issues change perspective in ways the healthy just can't conceive. Great to hear you're back on your feet and moving forwards again.
Re the bar. For something like this I assumed the risk and I bear you no malice at all. I knew it wasn't coming out of a factory, but just one guy's attempt to make something better. Sure, it was a shame that it bent when it did but that's racing. I don't think my one is 'fixable' but I haven't really taken a good look at it. If it can be then we can do it down here. I am seriously thinking about modifying my rear suspension anyway, so it may all be a moot point. We shall see.
Season's Greetings.
Re the bar. For something like this I assumed the risk and I bear you no malice at all. I knew it wasn't coming out of a factory, but just one guy's attempt to make something better. Sure, it was a shame that it bent when it did but that's racing. I don't think my one is 'fixable' but I haven't really taken a good look at it. If it can be then we can do it down here. I am seriously thinking about modifying my rear suspension anyway, so it may all be a moot point. We shall see.
Season's Greetings.
12-21-2014, 05:57 PM
#179
Three Wheelin'
Bruce, glad to hear you're back at 100% Amazing how much the medical fraternity would have us believe they know.
Patrick - can you explain these marks, in your post #135? Could it be that all the bending is due to impact from the torque tube/drive train movement? Refer posts 75-77 as well.
Cheers,
Mike
Patrick - can you explain these marks, in your post #135? Could it be that all the bending is due to impact from the torque tube/drive train movement? Refer posts 75-77 as well.
Cheers,
Mike
12-21-2014, 11:36 PM
#180
Rennlist Member
Mike until we have the bar out of the car I'd rather not make conjecture. However we had semi solid engine and transmission mount. Also had a bar attached between trans and chassis which should have reduced capacity for movement (although more laterally I suspect). When we remove this bar and replace it temporarily with the stock part, then we can have a better look at it. Currently the car is on the ground without a motor and awaiting other bits and pieces for the 2015 campaign. We've decided that we probably won't upgrade to twin arm / multi link for now. So it depends on what is on offer as an alternative to stock or just stick with that for now. We might do a bit of a trick twin spring setup that they do on the Supercar V8s on the rears which should give us a bit of improved tuning and driving available.