Seeking advice - Potential purchase of 944 Turbo S
02-04-2012, 11:45 PM
#1
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Seeking advice - Potential purchase of 944 Turbo S
Hi guys,
Just after some advice on a 944 Turbo S (Australian delivered RHD) that I went to view yesterday. Below is what has been done to the car.
I'm particularly interested in the opinions of other Aussies on this board with first hand experience (Paulyy, 333pg333 etc).
1988 944 Turbo S Guards Red (in need of a respray)
All work was undertaken by a Porsche trained technician (I have viewed a folder full of receipts).
Cylinder head was overhauled in 2011 and new piston rings, gaskets, and valve guides fitted as well as valves reseated.
Air induction system fitted with pod filter low behind front bar
Full 3in custom stainless steel exhaust
GT3071R turbo fitted with custom heat shield
Bosch 40lb injectors fitted
Fuel pump, water pump and radiator replaced
Belts replaced
Distributor replaced with electronic fuel injection
ECU replaced with a Haltech Sport 1000
Turbosmart Eboost Street boost controller fitted
Heavier clutch installed (perhaps 20 000km ago)
Drilled rotors and new street/track pads fitted
17in Boxster wheels with spacers in the front (baldish Michelin Pilot Sport 235/40 rear and slightly smaller up front)
Control arms replaced
It is running all the factory Turbo S options such as sunroof, driving lights, ABS, Koni adjustable shocks, larger rear torsion bar and anti roll bar, upgraded suspension bushings through out, limited slip diff, hardened gears, larger Brembo brakes (as fitted to the 928) with 4 piston calipers
Owner claims 370hp/276kw since new turbo installed last year. With a 25% drivetrain loss than equates to roughly 203rwkw which felt about right on my 'seat of pants' test drive yesterday. I'm yet to see the dyno chart or boost used as yet. Unless it was only running about 10psi does this sound low given the turbo it is running? (US readers keep in mind that our DynoJets are notorious for running lower numbers). With the top end refresh done could I bump this up to 220-230rwkw safely?
I found the clutch quite heavy with a high take-up point that I would get adjusted. I'm hoping I would get used to it because I know changing the clutch on these cars is a bitch. I've heard 20 hours labour? Cost for any aussies who have changed theirs recently?
I also found the steering quite heavy. It was very direct and responsive but I had to turn hard with both hands on a roundabout that I can do with one hand lightly on my current car (Nissan S15 Silvia). Is this normal?
How much have you been charged roughly to respray your 944's? Obviously sticking with a factory Guards Red would make it easier as I wouldn't do the engine bay, just the exterior and sills. I'd like to install 968 mirrors, door handles and a front splitter at the same time.
Apart from the clutch and steering the car drove very nicely and sounded fantastic. The owner is obviously meticulous and has spent a large sum on it over his 3 years of ownership.
Does it sound like a good buy?
Just after some advice on a 944 Turbo S (Australian delivered RHD) that I went to view yesterday. Below is what has been done to the car.
I'm particularly interested in the opinions of other Aussies on this board with first hand experience (Paulyy, 333pg333 etc).
1988 944 Turbo S Guards Red (in need of a respray)
All work was undertaken by a Porsche trained technician (I have viewed a folder full of receipts).
Cylinder head was overhauled in 2011 and new piston rings, gaskets, and valve guides fitted as well as valves reseated.
Air induction system fitted with pod filter low behind front bar
Full 3in custom stainless steel exhaust
GT3071R turbo fitted with custom heat shield
Bosch 40lb injectors fitted
Fuel pump, water pump and radiator replaced
Belts replaced
Distributor replaced with electronic fuel injection
ECU replaced with a Haltech Sport 1000
Turbosmart Eboost Street boost controller fitted
Heavier clutch installed (perhaps 20 000km ago)
Drilled rotors and new street/track pads fitted
17in Boxster wheels with spacers in the front (baldish Michelin Pilot Sport 235/40 rear and slightly smaller up front)
Control arms replaced
It is running all the factory Turbo S options such as sunroof, driving lights, ABS, Koni adjustable shocks, larger rear torsion bar and anti roll bar, upgraded suspension bushings through out, limited slip diff, hardened gears, larger Brembo brakes (as fitted to the 928) with 4 piston calipers
Owner claims 370hp/276kw since new turbo installed last year. With a 25% drivetrain loss than equates to roughly 203rwkw which felt about right on my 'seat of pants' test drive yesterday. I'm yet to see the dyno chart or boost used as yet. Unless it was only running about 10psi does this sound low given the turbo it is running? (US readers keep in mind that our DynoJets are notorious for running lower numbers). With the top end refresh done could I bump this up to 220-230rwkw safely?
I found the clutch quite heavy with a high take-up point that I would get adjusted. I'm hoping I would get used to it because I know changing the clutch on these cars is a bitch. I've heard 20 hours labour? Cost for any aussies who have changed theirs recently?
I also found the steering quite heavy. It was very direct and responsive but I had to turn hard with both hands on a roundabout that I can do with one hand lightly on my current car (Nissan S15 Silvia). Is this normal?
How much have you been charged roughly to respray your 944's? Obviously sticking with a factory Guards Red would make it easier as I wouldn't do the engine bay, just the exterior and sills. I'd like to install 968 mirrors, door handles and a front splitter at the same time.
Apart from the clutch and steering the car drove very nicely and sounded fantastic. The owner is obviously meticulous and has spent a large sum on it over his 3 years of ownership.
Does it sound like a good buy?
02-05-2012, 12:13 AM
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Hey Justin,
the car sounds pretty well sorted, with the 40lb injectors i wouldn't want to push more boost with that turbo.
the clutch job is a big one, i need to change mine soon but i'm holding that off as long as i can.
The steering won't be as light as a new car, but it really isn't that heavy, i mean i use 2 hands to turn the wheel for corners but i can use 1 if i really wanted to.
The US respray costs a lot less then ours here. expect north of 4k for something proper. you want a spray job that'll last you a long a long time in all conditions.
Checked for any oil leaks?
coolant leaks?
knocks/out of place noises?
What's the asking price?
the car sounds pretty well sorted, with the 40lb injectors i wouldn't want to push more boost with that turbo.
the clutch job is a big one, i need to change mine soon but i'm holding that off as long as i can.
The steering won't be as light as a new car, but it really isn't that heavy, i mean i use 2 hands to turn the wheel for corners but i can use 1 if i really wanted to.
The US respray costs a lot less then ours here. expect north of 4k for something proper. you want a spray job that'll last you a long a long time in all conditions.
Checked for any oil leaks?
coolant leaks?
knocks/out of place noises?
What's the asking price?
02-05-2012, 12:26 AM
#3
Even with power steering, it is quite heavy on these cars. Your best bet is to have the car checked out by a good mechanic, even a car that looks meticulous can have hidden problems or damage you won't see on the ground.
Assuming the RHD cars are the same as LHD, a clutch should be in the 10 to 12 hour range for any competent tech.
Sounds like a nicely set up car. If everything checks out and the price is reasonable, I'd say go for it.
PS. 944 drivetrain losses are nowhere near 25%. If everything is in good shape, it should be 10-12%. There are no u joints, and porsche cuts the gears at a shallower angle than most manufacturers.
Assuming the RHD cars are the same as LHD, a clutch should be in the 10 to 12 hour range for any competent tech.
Sounds like a nicely set up car. If everything checks out and the price is reasonable, I'd say go for it.
PS. 944 drivetrain losses are nowhere near 25%. If everything is in good shape, it should be 10-12%. There are no u joints, and porsche cuts the gears at a shallower angle than most manufacturers.
02-05-2012, 12:54 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
Power steering shouldn't be heavy. Have it checked out by mechanic these are great cars but can be expensive to fix.
If you buy it you may want to get to know the mechanicals for a season before doing body.
If you buy it you may want to get to know the mechanicals for a season before doing body.
02-05-2012, 12:55 AM
#6
Instructor
Thread Starter
Hey Justin,
the car sounds pretty well sorted, with the 40lb injectors i wouldn't want to push more boost with that turbo.
The Rogue M-tune kit uses 80lb injectors doesn't it? I assume I could move to injectors like that and get it retuned for slightly more boost safely? How does the power sound to you Paully? I note you're running the slightly larger GTX3076.
the clutch job is a big one, i need to change mine soon but i'm holding that off as long as i can.
That's what I thought. Hmm swapping the clutch would be a tough call.
The steering won't be as light as a new car, but it really isn't that heavy, i mean i use 2 hands to turn the wheel for corners but i can use 1 if i really wanted to.
Ok good to know. I wondered if the power steering wasn't functioning properly.
The US respray costs a lot less then ours here. expect north of 4k for something proper. you want a spray job that'll last you a long a long time in all conditions.
Yes I was expecting $4-5k for a reasonable factory respray to the exterior alone.
Checked for any oil leaks?
coolant leaks?
knocks/out of place noises?
His garage was spotless with no oil leaks on the floor etc. I would definately get a thorough mechanical inspection and compression test done before purchase though.
What's the asking price?
$20k asking price, but I would be looking closer to $16 given it badly needs a respray...
the car sounds pretty well sorted, with the 40lb injectors i wouldn't want to push more boost with that turbo.
The Rogue M-tune kit uses 80lb injectors doesn't it? I assume I could move to injectors like that and get it retuned for slightly more boost safely? How does the power sound to you Paully? I note you're running the slightly larger GTX3076.
the clutch job is a big one, i need to change mine soon but i'm holding that off as long as i can.
That's what I thought. Hmm swapping the clutch would be a tough call.
The steering won't be as light as a new car, but it really isn't that heavy, i mean i use 2 hands to turn the wheel for corners but i can use 1 if i really wanted to.
Ok good to know. I wondered if the power steering wasn't functioning properly.
The US respray costs a lot less then ours here. expect north of 4k for something proper. you want a spray job that'll last you a long a long time in all conditions.
Yes I was expecting $4-5k for a reasonable factory respray to the exterior alone.
Checked for any oil leaks?
coolant leaks?
knocks/out of place noises?
His garage was spotless with no oil leaks on the floor etc. I would definately get a thorough mechanical inspection and compression test done before purchase though.
What's the asking price?
$20k asking price, but I would be looking closer to $16 given it badly needs a respray...
02-05-2012, 01:15 AM
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yep, i'm running his 80lb injectors. well I'm assuming i've got around 240rwkw 320rwhp by comparing to cars around me that i pull away from. then again my turbo isn't in its "peak" operating range. not until i go 25psi on e85.
the numbers do seem high for 10 psi, the car comes out stock 10-12 psi on 250hp and with 15-18 psi of boost with the stock turbo and a real good tune, you can reach as high as 300rwhp.
you probably have around 190rwkw on 10 psi
if you go easy on the clutch it should be fine until you feel it slipping in 5th gear.
the power steering could be fine, you're probably just not use to it since it is harder then the newer cars.
20k is very cheap. go for 16 but you'll probably get it for 18. most turbos go between 20-30k
the numbers do seem high for 10 psi, the car comes out stock 10-12 psi on 250hp and with 15-18 psi of boost with the stock turbo and a real good tune, you can reach as high as 300rwhp.
you probably have around 190rwkw on 10 psi
if you go easy on the clutch it should be fine until you feel it slipping in 5th gear.
the power steering could be fine, you're probably just not use to it since it is harder then the newer cars.
20k is very cheap. go for 16 but you'll probably get it for 18. most turbos go between 20-30k
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02-05-2012, 02:08 AM
#8
For the weight of the steering, you mentioned an S15. If they are anything like the S13s and 14s that I've driven, the steering is so light you can turn by looking at it hard. Probably just getting used to something with some weight. If it is a manual rack, I'd consider swapping to power. Every manual rack 944 I've tried is heavy, slow and gains no feel vs. the power racks.
As for power, I'd love to see what a nicely tuned GT30 will do on one of these without any alcohol. If you get it, post up the dyno charts.
As for power, I'd love to see what a nicely tuned GT30 will do on one of these without any alcohol. If you get it, post up the dyno charts.
02-05-2012, 02:40 AM
#9
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Thread Starter
yep, i'm running his 80lb injectors. well I'm assuming i've got around 240rwkw 320rwhp by comparing to cars around me that i pull away from. then again my turbo isn't in its "peak" operating range. not until i go 25psi on e85.
the numbers do seem high for 10 psi, the car comes out stock 10-12 psi on 250hp and with 15-18 psi of boost with the stock turbo and a real good tune, you can reach as high as 300rwhp.
you probably have around 190rwkw on 10 psi
if you go easy on the clutch it should be fine until you feel it slipping in 5th gear.
the power steering could be fine, you're probably just not use to it since it is harder then the newer cars.
20k is very cheap. go for 16 but you'll probably get it for 18. most turbos go between 20-30k
the numbers do seem high for 10 psi, the car comes out stock 10-12 psi on 250hp and with 15-18 psi of boost with the stock turbo and a real good tune, you can reach as high as 300rwhp.
you probably have around 190rwkw on 10 psi
if you go easy on the clutch it should be fine until you feel it slipping in 5th gear.
the power steering could be fine, you're probably just not use to it since it is harder then the newer cars.
20k is very cheap. go for 16 but you'll probably get it for 18. most turbos go between 20-30k
The owner did replace the clutch approx 20-30k km ago and it has quite a heavy pressure plate so I'd be surprised if it couldn't handle the current torque and 230rwkw. I know you can get much lighter clutches that will hold that sort of power though. It would be a daily driver after all.
Yes the price does seem reasonable (except for the added respray cost). I've seen a large number of Turbos and S's sit on the market for 6+ months lately however. The last one I saw had a rebuilt engine, gearbox, turbo and new clutch and only went for $15k. Hmm.
For the weight of the steering, you mentioned an S15. If they are anything like the S13s and 14s that I've driven, the steering is so light you can turn by looking at it hard. Probably just getting used to something with some weight. If it is a manual rack, I'd consider swapping to power. Every manual rack 944 I've tried is heavy, slow and gains no feel vs. the power racks.
As for power, I'd love to see what a nicely tuned GT30 will do on one of these without any alcohol. If you get it, post up the dyno charts.
As for power, I'd love to see what a nicely tuned GT30 will do on one of these without any alcohol. If you get it, post up the dyno charts.
I'll certainly post up the dyno chart if I can acquire it.
02-05-2012, 03:11 AM
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you may not be able to get a lighter clutch, the clutch on my car which i assume is stock is quite hard, but you get use to it. it was as hard as my mates exeedy heavy duty on his s13.
02-06-2012, 08:17 AM
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I had an Exedy heavy duty full face organic on my last car and it wasn't heavy at all. Very comfortable to drive and my car had 230rwkw and 500+nm of torque.
02-06-2012, 08:33 AM
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Be nice to get some more info for sure.
How has he fitted the GT30? Just modified a stock mount? Any signs of leaks.
Why switch to a standalone and then use 40lb inj and claim 370bhp. 300whp +/- would require 18psi at least. With 40lb injs I'm not so sure?? What fuel pump? Anyway, see if there are any charts.
You'll get used to the clutch before you want to spend the money to replace it. Spend that money on the paint job. It's impossible to say from here, but you never know. Maybe this guy's done a great job. The US guys will be wincing at the prices we pay but that's just a fact of life. Price you gotta pay for living in the best country.
How has he fitted the GT30? Just modified a stock mount? Any signs of leaks.
Why switch to a standalone and then use 40lb inj and claim 370bhp. 300whp +/- would require 18psi at least. With 40lb injs I'm not so sure?? What fuel pump? Anyway, see if there are any charts.
You'll get used to the clutch before you want to spend the money to replace it. Spend that money on the paint job. It's impossible to say from here, but you never know. Maybe this guy's done a great job. The US guys will be wincing at the prices we pay but that's just a fact of life. Price you gotta pay for living in the best country.
02-07-2012, 04:14 AM
#14
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Be nice to get some more info for sure.
How has he fitted the GT30? Just modified a stock mount? Any signs of leaks.
Why switch to a standalone and then use 40lb inj and claim 370bhp. 300whp +/- would require 18psi at least. With 40lb injs I'm not so sure?? What fuel pump? Anyway, see if there are any charts.
You'll get used to the clutch before you want to spend the money to replace it. Spend that money on the paint job. It's impossible to say from here, but you never know. Maybe this guy's done a great job. The US guys will be wincing at the prices we pay but that's just a fact of life. Price you gotta pay for living in the best country.
How has he fitted the GT30? Just modified a stock mount? Any signs of leaks.
Why switch to a standalone and then use 40lb inj and claim 370bhp. 300whp +/- would require 18psi at least. With 40lb injs I'm not so sure?? What fuel pump? Anyway, see if there are any charts.
You'll get used to the clutch before you want to spend the money to replace it. Spend that money on the paint job. It's impossible to say from here, but you never know. Maybe this guy's done a great job. The US guys will be wincing at the prices we pay but that's just a fact of life. Price you gotta pay for living in the best country.
Best country for sure. Hope to have the sunroof off and boosting through the hills of the warm, sunny Queensland hinterland soon
I reckon. Looking on Ebay at all the $8k 944 Turbos in the USA is depressing...
02-07-2012, 04:53 AM
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the s65 is clammed to make 650hp and thats around the gt3076r territory.
But you can't really compare a GT series turbo to their turbos since the GT turbos have the the T3 hot housing and the LR-S series turbos have Turbonetics KKK replica housings which create more back pressure therefore loosing top end power compared to the T3.
But you can't really compare a GT series turbo to their turbos since the GT turbos have the the T3 hot housing and the LR-S series turbos have Turbonetics KKK replica housings which create more back pressure therefore loosing top end power compared to the T3.