Tried seafoam and now car won't start, Ideas?
12-21-2011, 10:49 PM
#61
Hi Lart this is Tim from San Diego. We talked on the phone a few month's back and I had ordered some parts from you. I doubt you remember, but it looks like I probably will be doing it again soon.
12-21-2011, 10:56 PM
#63
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Tim, I have a shop that can rebuild your head in LA area at a very competitive price, also I have everything you will need for a engine build.
12-22-2011, 12:45 AM
#64
At this point, I think someone more qualified needs to see what is actually happening here. I have a hard time believing you destroyed your engine here with the seafoam. Is that possible, anythings possible. But have you checked the compression?
I would take the front belt covers off, make sure the timing belt is in the proper position, then crank that thing to get compression. I was trying to diagnose a no start/intermittent start for a few weeks, ended up being my DME, it worked after I banged it with a piece of wood.
My point being, it could be anything, but you need to follow a better iterative process. Like other posters said, spark, fuel, and air that thing will start. If you had bent/banged up valves whatever, it would run, but be rough as hell, or whatever.
If you're in SD, there has to be about a million people, listers, shops, that can help you figure this out.
Good luck.
I would take the front belt covers off, make sure the timing belt is in the proper position, then crank that thing to get compression. I was trying to diagnose a no start/intermittent start for a few weeks, ended up being my DME, it worked after I banged it with a piece of wood.
My point being, it could be anything, but you need to follow a better iterative process. Like other posters said, spark, fuel, and air that thing will start. If you had bent/banged up valves whatever, it would run, but be rough as hell, or whatever.
If you're in SD, there has to be about a million people, listers, shops, that can help you figure this out.
Good luck.
12-22-2011, 01:27 AM
#65
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
If the engine was running and ingested a lot of water, it would lead to fractured pistons and broken rods. Water, like most liquids, is not compressible, so as the piston moved up to compress the volume that is supposed to be gas and air, it would run into a brick wall. Something is going to break.
At this point, I think someone more qualified needs to see what is actually happening here. I have a hard time believing you destroyed your engine here with the seafoam. Is that possible, anythings possible. But have you checked the compression?
I would take the front belt covers off, make sure the timing belt is in the proper position, then crank that thing to get compression. I was trying to diagnose a no start/intermittent start for a few weeks, ended up being my DME, it worked after I banged it with a piece of wood.
My point being, it could be anything, but you need to follow a better iterative process. Like other posters said, spark, fuel, and air that thing will start. If you had bent/banged up valves whatever, it would run, but be rough as hell, or whatever.
If you're in SD, there has to be about a million people, listers, shops, that can help you figure this out.
Good luck.
I would take the front belt covers off, make sure the timing belt is in the proper position, then crank that thing to get compression. I was trying to diagnose a no start/intermittent start for a few weeks, ended up being my DME, it worked after I banged it with a piece of wood.
My point being, it could be anything, but you need to follow a better iterative process. Like other posters said, spark, fuel, and air that thing will start. If you had bent/banged up valves whatever, it would run, but be rough as hell, or whatever.
If you're in SD, there has to be about a million people, listers, shops, that can help you figure this out.
Good luck.
12-22-2011, 08:48 AM
#66
Nordschleife Master
OP, do you have access to a leak down tester? If not I have one I can send out to you for you to borrow.. but you will need an air compressor..
The leakdown tester will point the way to the failed component... IF the motor was hydrolocked you MIGHT have cracked the block, you can check for that by pressurizing the coolant (using a loaner pressure tester from most auto parts stores)...
if you pressurize the coolant, and have coolant passing into the cylinders it is either a cracked block, blown head gasket, or cracked head... any of which could result from a hydrolock situation!
When you did the compression test, did you do it wet (squirting oil into the cylinder) or dry.. it is a forgone conclusion the motor was cold...
I had a previous fellow I was assisting who on hearing from his shop that he had low compression (on a sleeved sub 5000 mile motor) decided to tear it down for rebuild... guess what, not a single point of failure was found durring the rebuild... the shop did a cold dry compression test and stopped there because of the results!
The leakdown tester will point the way to the failed component... IF the motor was hydrolocked you MIGHT have cracked the block, you can check for that by pressurizing the coolant (using a loaner pressure tester from most auto parts stores)...
if you pressurize the coolant, and have coolant passing into the cylinders it is either a cracked block, blown head gasket, or cracked head... any of which could result from a hydrolock situation!
When you did the compression test, did you do it wet (squirting oil into the cylinder) or dry.. it is a forgone conclusion the motor was cold...
I had a previous fellow I was assisting who on hearing from his shop that he had low compression (on a sleeved sub 5000 mile motor) decided to tear it down for rebuild... guess what, not a single point of failure was found durring the rebuild... the shop did a cold dry compression test and stopped there because of the results!
12-22-2011, 09:44 AM
#67
Race Car
OP, do you have access to a leak down tester? If not I have one I can send out to you for you to borrow.. but you will need an air compressor..
The leakdown tester will point the way to the failed component... IF the motor was hydrolocked you MIGHT have cracked the block, you can check for that by pressurizing the coolant (using a loaner pressure tester from most auto parts stores)...
if you pressurize the coolant, and have coolant passing into the cylinders it is either a cracked block, blown head gasket, or cracked head... any of which could result from a hydrolock situation!
When you did the compression test, did you do it wet (squirting oil into the cylinder) or dry.. it is a forgone conclusion the motor was cold...
I had a previous fellow I was assisting who on hearing from his shop that he had low compression (on a sleeved sub 5000 mile motor) decided to tear it down for rebuild... guess what, not a single point of failure was found durring the rebuild... the shop did a cold dry compression test and stopped there because of the results!
The leakdown tester will point the way to the failed component... IF the motor was hydrolocked you MIGHT have cracked the block, you can check for that by pressurizing the coolant (using a loaner pressure tester from most auto parts stores)...
if you pressurize the coolant, and have coolant passing into the cylinders it is either a cracked block, blown head gasket, or cracked head... any of which could result from a hydrolock situation!
When you did the compression test, did you do it wet (squirting oil into the cylinder) or dry.. it is a forgone conclusion the motor was cold...
I had a previous fellow I was assisting who on hearing from his shop that he had low compression (on a sleeved sub 5000 mile motor) decided to tear it down for rebuild... guess what, not a single point of failure was found durring the rebuild... the shop did a cold dry compression test and stopped there because of the results!
THank you. I, for one, am very skeptical that running seafoam through the engine could have done any serious damage to the engine, itself. Idential and low readings on adjacent cylinders means only one thing to me - blown head gasket. Which is a possibility. But even then, hydrolocking doesn't bend valves, it bends rods. It is concievable that if the engine were old and had a lot of buildup on the valves, the seafoam could have broken loose enough of the build up to prevent a valve from seating properly.
But that is where the leakdown tester is significantly more valueable. You can hear where the leak is coming from.
12-22-2011, 10:58 AM
#68
Did I miss a post saying he put water in his engine? I'm not here to debate whether its safe to foam this car or not, but seafoam is not water. Thousands upon thousands of engines have been seafoamed without destroying the motor, let alone cracking blocks, rods, heads, etc.
It still doesn't sound to me like any diagnostics have been done here, except turning the key and praying.
It still doesn't sound to me like any diagnostics have been done here, except turning the key and praying.
12-22-2011, 10:59 AM
#69
But this gem from seafoam website:
It is important to make sure the engine is at operating temperature. Then find a vacuum line that feeds all cylinders, usually the PCV hose or the vacuum brake booster line may feed all cylinders. If you are in doubt as to which vacuum line to use, YOU MUST check with a certified auto technician. If a technician is not available or if your engine doesn't have any vacuum lines, then use the Sea Foam® Spray method described in another section of this web site.
Maybe wrong hole? lol.
It is important to make sure the engine is at operating temperature. Then find a vacuum line that feeds all cylinders, usually the PCV hose or the vacuum brake booster line may feed all cylinders. If you are in doubt as to which vacuum line to use, YOU MUST check with a certified auto technician. If a technician is not available or if your engine doesn't have any vacuum lines, then use the Sea Foam® Spray method described in another section of this web site.
Maybe wrong hole? lol.
12-22-2011, 11:24 AM
#70
Cosmatics read my other posts, I have done everything to diagnose this car so far including compression. And I am a very competent mechanic having done complete engine swaps on cars and more. I do thankyou for your input though, everything helps.
I thought a leakdown test would be a good idea also, and I very much appreciate the thought I letting me borrow one. I do have an air compressor , so that is not the problem.
I come from disbelief with this whole thing. The engine was warmed up, and I only poured in 1 ounce in through the idle adjust screw. Then let that burn for a minute, then did 1 ounce again and let it burn (plus smoke this time) and voila the car stumbles and dies. Never has started again. It's just not that much liquid I would have thought. But non the less I have very low compression.
I thought a leakdown test would be a good idea also, and I very much appreciate the thought I letting me borrow one. I do have an air compressor , so that is not the problem.
I come from disbelief with this whole thing. The engine was warmed up, and I only poured in 1 ounce in through the idle adjust screw. Then let that burn for a minute, then did 1 ounce again and let it burn (plus smoke this time) and voila the car stumbles and dies. Never has started again. It's just not that much liquid I would have thought. But non the less I have very low compression.
12-22-2011, 11:43 AM
#71
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Indianapolis,IN
Posts: 1,408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Idea though. Maybe I could disconnect the exhaust at the cat. Crank the engine a bunch, and try to clear out what is caught in the exhaust stroke? Would that work/help with what little compression I have?
The car is choking on all the carbon that was released, that is my problem. Or, tada! am I looking at putting in a used engine now?
The car is choking on all the carbon that was released, that is my problem. Or, tada! am I looking at putting in a used engine now?
The only fact I glean from this whole thread is that SEAFOAM DIDN"T HURT YOUR ENGINE.
12-22-2011, 12:21 PM
#72
Nordschleife Master
AND?
Low compression could be caused by the rings having been flushed of oil by the seafoam or some large amount of contaminants being flushed by the seafoam preventing the valves from fully sealing just as easily as it could have been caused by serious damage!
If the comression test wasn't run wet (oil in the spark plug hole prior to repeating the test) there is virtually no way to rule out dry rings! Squirt oil in and repeat the test!
LOW compression is NOT as significant as compression numbers differing from one to the next... a deviation of greater than 10% is worse than sub 100 PSI accross the board!
An engine with miles on it stands to lose the most being compression tested cold and dry!
squirt in oil and repeat the compression test... if numbers are still severely low or deviating from one cylinder to any other... perform a leakdown test!
Low compression could be caused by the rings having been flushed of oil by the seafoam or some large amount of contaminants being flushed by the seafoam preventing the valves from fully sealing just as easily as it could have been caused by serious damage!
If the comression test wasn't run wet (oil in the spark plug hole prior to repeating the test) there is virtually no way to rule out dry rings! Squirt oil in and repeat the test!
LOW compression is NOT as significant as compression numbers differing from one to the next... a deviation of greater than 10% is worse than sub 100 PSI accross the board!
An engine with miles on it stands to lose the most being compression tested cold and dry!
squirt in oil and repeat the compression test... if numbers are still severely low or deviating from one cylinder to any other... perform a leakdown test!
12-22-2011, 12:27 PM
#73
Race Car
Cosmatics read my other posts, I have done everything to diagnose this car so far including compression. And I am a very competent mechanic having done complete engine swaps on cars and more. I do thankyou for your input though, everything helps.
I thought a leakdown test would be a good idea also, and I very much appreciate the thought I letting me borrow one. I do have an air compressor , so that is not the problem.
I come from disbelief with this whole thing. The engine was warmed up, and I only poured in 1 ounce in through the idle adjust screw. Then let that burn for a minute, then did 1 ounce again and let it burn (plus smoke this time) and voila the car stumbles and dies. Never has started again. It's just not that much liquid I would have thought. But non the less I have very low compression.
I thought a leakdown test would be a good idea also, and I very much appreciate the thought I letting me borrow one. I do have an air compressor , so that is not the problem.
I come from disbelief with this whole thing. The engine was warmed up, and I only poured in 1 ounce in through the idle adjust screw. Then let that burn for a minute, then did 1 ounce again and let it burn (plus smoke this time) and voila the car stumbles and dies. Never has started again. It's just not that much liquid I would have thought. But non the less I have very low compression.
1. Pull the plugs, what do they look like? I know they are new, that's not the point. Pull them and describe them.
2. Check your timing. Some of the stuff you mention makes it almost sound like it jumped timing. Align your mark on your camshaft, and go look at the flywheel and see if both ends are at TDC.
3. Disconnect the exhaust before the cat. Try again.
4. If still no workie, pull one plug, and put gasoline in through there. See what happens. It should fire a few times before running out of gas if fueling is your problem.
12-22-2011, 12:34 PM
#74
Nordschleife Master
First thing is forget the assumption that you are a competent mechanic. I'm not insulting your ability, but trying to get you to change your perspective. Been turning wrenches for over 20 years, have 2 engineering degrees, and I used to do engine development for Ford, etc. etc. etc., and I still don't know it all.
1. Pull the plugs, what do they look like? I know they are new, that's not the point. Pull them and describe them.
2. Check your timing. Some of the stuff you mention makes it almost sound like it jumped timing. Align your mark on your camshaft, and go look at the flywheel and see if both ends are at TDC.
3. Disconnect the exhaust before the cat. Try again.
4. If still no workie, pull one plug, and put gasoline in through there. See what happens. It should fire a few times before running out of gas if fueling is your problem.
1. Pull the plugs, what do they look like? I know they are new, that's not the point. Pull them and describe them.
2. Check your timing. Some of the stuff you mention makes it almost sound like it jumped timing. Align your mark on your camshaft, and go look at the flywheel and see if both ends are at TDC.
3. Disconnect the exhaust before the cat. Try again.
4. If still no workie, pull one plug, and put gasoline in through there. See what happens. It should fire a few times before running out of gas if fueling is your problem.
There are PLENTY of diagnostic measures to take BEFORE removing any engine components!
12-22-2011, 01:58 PM
#75
Rennlist Member
But this gem from seafoam website:
It is important to make sure the engine is at operating temperature. Then find a vacuum line that feeds all cylinders, usually the PCV hose or the vacuum brake booster line may feed all cylinders. If you are in doubt as to which vacuum line to use, YOU MUST check with a certified auto technician. If a technician is not available or if your engine doesn't have any vacuum lines, then use the Sea Foam® Spray method described in another section of this web site.
Maybe wrong hole? lol.
It is important to make sure the engine is at operating temperature. Then find a vacuum line that feeds all cylinders, usually the PCV hose or the vacuum brake booster line may feed all cylinders. If you are in doubt as to which vacuum line to use, YOU MUST check with a certified auto technician. If a technician is not available or if your engine doesn't have any vacuum lines, then use the Sea Foam® Spray method described in another section of this web site.
Maybe wrong hole? lol.
