HP gains for stock 220hp model
10-29-2002, 07:36 PM
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HP gains for stock 220hp model
This has probably been covered , but being a bit of a novice, im a bit confused and would like simple answers if anyone can enlighten me:
whats the maximun hp gain from a stock 220hp model ie without changing turbo/engine mods.
1. with chips
2. with map/maf kit
3. boost enhancer
4. any other.
Whats maximum hp the engine can take reliably, assuming you can change turbo/wastgate etc?
Also im leaning towards getting a tial wastgate and map kit from guru racing, but I read on a post I think that the hp gain from the map kit is about up to 270 ish for $1000, yet you can get a set of chips which would give the same hp gain for half the price or less if bought on Ebay or does the chips add 50hp and the map add 50 as well making + 100hp.
and finally is it possible to put the bigger turbo in ie from the 's' model in- if so is it bolt on or do you have to adapt.
I;m looking to make 300/320 hp- so I assume the standard turbo wont be big enough.
all help is gratefully received.
whats the maximun hp gain from a stock 220hp model ie without changing turbo/engine mods.
1. with chips
2. with map/maf kit
3. boost enhancer
4. any other.
Whats maximum hp the engine can take reliably, assuming you can change turbo/wastgate etc?
Also im leaning towards getting a tial wastgate and map kit from guru racing, but I read on a post I think that the hp gain from the map kit is about up to 270 ish for $1000, yet you can get a set of chips which would give the same hp gain for half the price or less if bought on Ebay or does the chips add 50hp and the map add 50 as well making + 100hp.
and finally is it possible to put the bigger turbo in ie from the 's' model in- if so is it bolt on or do you have to adapt.
I;m looking to make 300/320 hp- so I assume the standard turbo wont be big enough.
all help is gratefully received.
10-29-2002, 08:00 PM
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Well, with the Guru Racing chips, I would assume you will get a 50 hp at the flywheel increase. A MAP or MAF, companies claim an 80 hp increase. Boost, depends on what boost you set it at. I'm pretty sure that there is a 20 hp per psi increase. There are many bolt on turbos. Check with SFR (Speedforceracing.com) they have really good quality upgrades for the 951. The turbo isthe biggest restriction on our cars, A bigger turbo will be the best upgrade.
10-29-2002, 08:00 PM
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The Guru MAP kits are producing around 270 rear wheel hp, not a guesstimated 270 crank hp like the chips you're referring to. Probably a 50-60 hp difference. You can look at real dyno charts with these various mods on the <a href="http://members.rennlist.org/951_racerx/" target="_blank">Racer x website</a>
10-29-2002, 11:40 PM
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A stock 951 running well with a HR Stage III MAF, running 17 PSI on pump gas will make 270-280 HP and 330-340 TQ at the wheels. Our Stage III MAP kit will add 3-7 HP and 5-10 TQ over that. We just did a car the other day with a HR-MAF#3, S/S 3.0" Test Pipe, Adj. FPR and HR Chips at 16 PSI and made 280 HP and 340 TQ at the wheels on 91 OCT California fuel. Chips and raised boost alone make 240 HP at 270 TQ average.
10-30-2002, 12:09 AM
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HOWS this sound stock turbo stage two GURU RACING MAP KIT 15 pounds of boost cat bypass 290 hp. Did i mention 15 pounds of boost only on pump gas. Shooting for 300 at 15 pounds.!! 
10-30-2002, 09:22 AM
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thanks for replies- any reliability problems, whats the maximum hp you can have before strengthening the engine- ie mainly head gasket.I heard that crushing rings in to the head when replacing the headgasket prevents it blowing.
Would a map kit/ dual port wastgate and an upgrade turbo give me 300hp- and would that be reliable.I dont want to go too far as reliability is more important.I thought 300hp would be a good balance between reliability and hp.
A lot of you guys seem to have lots of different modifications/upgrades- any reliability problems with these?
Would a map kit/ dual port wastgate and an upgrade turbo give me 300hp- and would that be reliable.I dont want to go too far as reliability is more important.I thought 300hp would be a good balance between reliability and hp.
A lot of you guys seem to have lots of different modifications/upgrades- any reliability problems with these?
10-30-2002, 09:28 AM
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SUPERJET 1-
YOUR SETUP AND RESULTS IE 290HP SOUNDS PERFECT ESPECIALLY AS ITS ON A STOCK TURBO.
any chance of any further details,Is 15 pounds of boost the best figure- would any higher make the engine too stressed?
also im in UK and I can get super unleaded gas at 97 standard is 95- how come its so low in USA then?ie 91 .
I assume higher octane = more power- is that right?
YOUR SETUP AND RESULTS IE 290HP SOUNDS PERFECT ESPECIALLY AS ITS ON A STOCK TURBO.
any chance of any further details,Is 15 pounds of boost the best figure- would any higher make the engine too stressed?
also im in UK and I can get super unleaded gas at 97 standard is 95- how come its so low in USA then?ie 91 .
I assume higher octane = more power- is that right?
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10-30-2002, 09:51 AM
#8
[quote]Originally posted by rich951:
<strong>SUPERJET 1-
also im in UK and I can get super unleaded gas at 97 standard is 95- how come its so low in USA then?ie 91 .
I assume higher octane = more power- is that right?</strong><hr></blockquote>
High octane allows you to use higher boost which gives you more power. Octane is a rating describing the fuels resistance to detonation (combustion resulting from compression instead of spark).
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
<strong>SUPERJET 1-
also im in UK and I can get super unleaded gas at 97 standard is 95- how come its so low in USA then?ie 91 .
I assume higher octane = more power- is that right?</strong><hr></blockquote>
High octane allows you to use higher boost which gives you more power. Octane is a rating describing the fuels resistance to detonation (combustion resulting from compression instead of spark).
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
10-30-2002, 10:45 AM
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sorry to rain on the parade re octane rating.
This is gathered from previous posts and searching the web to the point of semi exhaustion.
The USA seems fairly unique (and the most honest of all) in that all gas sold must display the Pump Octane Number ie in this discussion 91 or 92.
This is calculated by (RON + MON)/2 where RON is road octane no and MON is Motor Octane no.
The rest of the world (I'm sure there are some exclusions) seems to use RON only
if we leave out complicating factors like sensitivity and blending then 91 PON is exactly the same as 97 RON, you're all using the same stuff (well almost)
MON is the a more stringent test of a fuels resistance to knock. (done at higher rpm and a much higher inlet manifold temp) and is always much lower than RON. Unfortunately petroleum companies are not required to publish the MON rating of their fuels. The USA at least gets closest by publishing the average of the two.
Turbo motors and high compression NA motors love high MON as it approximates better the conditions under which the normally operate. Point is two fuels can have the same RON but one can have a lower MON, but you have no way of knowing which one. HTH
<img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />
This is gathered from previous posts and searching the web to the point of semi exhaustion.
The USA seems fairly unique (and the most honest of all) in that all gas sold must display the Pump Octane Number ie in this discussion 91 or 92.
This is calculated by (RON + MON)/2 where RON is road octane no and MON is Motor Octane no.
The rest of the world (I'm sure there are some exclusions) seems to use RON only
if we leave out complicating factors like sensitivity and blending then 91 PON is exactly the same as 97 RON, you're all using the same stuff (well almost)
MON is the a more stringent test of a fuels resistance to knock. (done at higher rpm and a much higher inlet manifold temp) and is always much lower than RON. Unfortunately petroleum companies are not required to publish the MON rating of their fuels. The USA at least gets closest by publishing the average of the two.
Turbo motors and high compression NA motors love high MON as it approximates better the conditions under which the normally operate. Point is two fuels can have the same RON but one can have a lower MON, but you have no way of knowing which one. HTH
<img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />
11-05-2002, 04:40 PM
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I'm not a chemical engineer, but I believe that higher octane does NOT mean higher power output by and in of itself.
As I understand it, the octane rating speaks only to the reluctance of the fuel to predetonate under high load, high compression situations. The power comes from allowing more boost and less advance...
The Honda F1 motors of the late 1980s were running octanes in the 110 range if memory serves. They achieved this through the addition of toluene and other gunk which would be unusable in a street car. Honda made it more complicated by supercooling the fuel prior to the race to increase its density, thus allowing more fuel in the 200 litre tank (refuelling was forbidden back then). Then Honda ran the fuel through a pre-heater (which used the exhaust) to heat the fuel up enough so that it would atomize. Otherwise the stuff flowed like syrup.
The high octane was needed since they were running over 4 atmospheres boost -- under those conditions, almost any volatile fluid will pre-detonate.
It is easy to see, by the way, how the Honda motors made so much power. A VTEC Honda these days makes 80 hp/litre at 7000/min, so if you increase the revs by 50%, a 1.5 litre motor will make around 180 bhp at just over 10,000/min. Turbo it to 4 atmo (5 bar gauge) boost and this climbs to 900 bhp easily. The trick in all this is (1) keeping the engine together at such high levels of boost and (2) keeping the fuel from pre-igniting.
As I understand it, the octane rating speaks only to the reluctance of the fuel to predetonate under high load, high compression situations. The power comes from allowing more boost and less advance...
The Honda F1 motors of the late 1980s were running octanes in the 110 range if memory serves. They achieved this through the addition of toluene and other gunk which would be unusable in a street car. Honda made it more complicated by supercooling the fuel prior to the race to increase its density, thus allowing more fuel in the 200 litre tank (refuelling was forbidden back then). Then Honda ran the fuel through a pre-heater (which used the exhaust) to heat the fuel up enough so that it would atomize. Otherwise the stuff flowed like syrup.
The high octane was needed since they were running over 4 atmospheres boost -- under those conditions, almost any volatile fluid will pre-detonate.
It is easy to see, by the way, how the Honda motors made so much power. A VTEC Honda these days makes 80 hp/litre at 7000/min, so if you increase the revs by 50%, a 1.5 litre motor will make around 180 bhp at just over 10,000/min. Turbo it to 4 atmo (5 bar gauge) boost and this climbs to 900 bhp easily. The trick in all this is (1) keeping the engine together at such high levels of boost and (2) keeping the fuel from pre-igniting.
11-07-2002, 08:56 AM
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3. boost enhancer
As an FYI a boost enhancer will not really add more HP but will make your car feel faster as you will gain boost quicker. It is one of the most cost effective modifications you can make.
I have one I am not using now as I have upgraged to a Lindsay DPW, and am in the UK so contact me if you want to try it.
As an FYI a boost enhancer will not really add more HP but will make your car feel faster as you will gain boost quicker. It is one of the most cost effective modifications you can make.
I have one I am not using now as I have upgraged to a Lindsay DPW, and am in the UK so contact me if you want to try it.
11-07-2002, 12:20 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by superjet.1:
<strong>HOWS this sound stock turbo stage two GURU RACING MAP KIT 15 pounds of boost cat bypass 290 hp. Did i mention 15 pounds of boost only on pump gas. Shooting for 300 at 15 pounds.!! </strong><hr></blockquote>
If you guys can make that much power with a stock turbo, then what about with an aftermarket one? Have you guys done any testing with a different turbo yet?
<strong>HOWS this sound stock turbo stage two GURU RACING MAP KIT 15 pounds of boost cat bypass 290 hp. Did i mention 15 pounds of boost only on pump gas. Shooting for 300 at 15 pounds.!!
</strong><hr></blockquote>If you guys can make that much power with a stock turbo, then what about with an aftermarket one? Have you guys done any testing with a different turbo yet?
11-07-2002, 02:18 PM
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If you go with a bigger turbo, you will flow more air, meaning the turbo will hold higher boost levels longer than the stock turbo, but this is usually accompanied by more turbo lag (because the turbo has a higher rotational moment of inertia). The 951 motor is pretty strong and can handle a lot of boost (moderate) before you have to go crazy with stuff. I would keep it below 16 psig so you still have some reliability.
I just recently installed an MTM stage three kit on my 1993 Audi S4. This is the 20V 2.2 liter 5 cylinder. The motor will turn 7,200 RPM and is now running 21 psig (spikes at 24 psig) of boost (thanks to the RS2 Turbocharger). It makes 320 HP on pump 93 fuel and a whole *hitload of torque.
High boost levels are alright, you just have to do your homework, making absolutely certain you select the best combination of stuff. Follow someone else's experience, most of the guys on here seem to know a lot about the mods for the 951.
If I had no Porsche today, it is the car I would start with, then dial up the boost!!!!!
I just recently installed an MTM stage three kit on my 1993 Audi S4. This is the 20V 2.2 liter 5 cylinder. The motor will turn 7,200 RPM and is now running 21 psig (spikes at 24 psig) of boost (thanks to the RS2 Turbocharger). It makes 320 HP on pump 93 fuel and a whole *hitload of torque.
High boost levels are alright, you just have to do your homework, making absolutely certain you select the best combination of stuff. Follow someone else's experience, most of the guys on here seem to know a lot about the mods for the 951.
If I had no Porsche today, it is the car I would start with, then dial up the boost!!!!!
