Who here wants a simple water injection sytem for a good price??
03-04-2003, 11:40 PM
#32
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Dan,,,yeah I understand your concerns. The main thing Matt is concerned about(not having done a lot of 951s) is the onset of low rpm boost for turbos that get on boost under 3000rpm. I think, might be dangerous, that most of us in the 260rwhp and above will be hitting full boost a few hundred rpm before 3200-3500? I do running 17 with 96 octane; RacerX homebrew. My boost hits around 3400 and is flat lined until 5600 on torque.
So far in their tuning with all cars, the 60psi pump has been good to around 500hp then the 100.
So I talked to Matt, no full throttle switch, I'll set the boost switch to 15 psi, couple of different nozzles(no cost)to tune with, but I did get the non-return check valve; total w/ship 271.95. That is $167 under the base Aquamist
system. So my order is in...if I can get it to 18 psi with more protection for under $300, get another 18 or so hp out of another psi of boost...I don't think that's to bad.
David what fluid are you using? When your nozzle plugged up, had you used any tap water in a pinch for your mix? How often do you take you nozzle out and test the spray pattern? Just curious questions....also, how has your A/F ratio been after your injection - did you have to slightly re-tune the car? TIA
So far in their tuning with all cars, the 60psi pump has been good to around 500hp then the 100.
So I talked to Matt, no full throttle switch, I'll set the boost switch to 15 psi, couple of different nozzles(no cost)to tune with, but I did get the non-return check valve; total w/ship 271.95. That is $167 under the base Aquamist
system. So my order is in...if I can get it to 18 psi with more protection for under $300, get another 18 or so hp out of another psi of boost...I don't think that's to bad.
David what fluid are you using? When your nozzle plugged up, had you used any tap water in a pinch for your mix? How often do you take you nozzle out and test the spray pattern? Just curious questions....also, how has your A/F ratio been after your injection - did you have to slightly re-tune the car? TIA
03-05-2003, 03:21 AM
#33
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David,
Thanks for the tips, stay tuned, it sounds like many more kits going in.
I'm in the same boat, too much boost for my little turbo, plus a few track days at $50-100 a weekend for 100 octane. I have to do something. Otherwise, it sits in the backyard. Not a good thing.
Thanks for the tips, stay tuned, it sounds like many more kits going in.
I'm in the same boat, too much boost for my little turbo, plus a few track days at $50-100 a weekend for 100 octane. I have to do something. Otherwise, it sits in the backyard. Not a good thing.
03-05-2003, 09:59 AM
#34
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Water injection on a Normally Aspirated car is not worth it. On a forced induction, it's a good idea.
I'm working on a system that can be triggered based on RPM & LOAD. It'll be controlled by a PiggyBack which also controls fuel...
I'm working on a system that can be triggered based on RPM & LOAD. It'll be controlled by a PiggyBack which also controls fuel...
03-05-2003, 10:56 AM
#35
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I manufacture and sell the Boost Cooler water/methanol injection system. Bret Patton has set up a group buy for these kits at $225 ($299 retail) for rennlist members. Please see <a href="http://www.snowperformance.net" target="_blank">www.snowperformance.net</a> for info or call me at 719-271-5644 for specific info. I'll try to frequent this site every couple of days to answer tuning/install questions so all can benefit.
Also, this kit can mist the intercooler at thie same time it is injection into the intake. we are doing R&D currently on a Brake Cooler also.
Also, this kit can mist the intercooler at thie same time it is injection into the intake. we are doing R&D currently on a Brake Cooler also.
03-05-2003, 12:31 PM
#36
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Is that snow performance or aquatune? Couldn;t get the link to com up. They both are good kits and in the 250$ range. The snow performance kit has dyno's to back it up and is more focused on forced induction systems. lot;s of good stuff on ebay 
03-05-2003, 01:11 PM
#37
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Sorry, didn;t read the last page before posting. I have spoke with Matt on email in comparison to the aquatune kit and the snow perforance kit seems by far the best. And water/alch/met injection eems by far the most bang for the buck, at least for forced induction. And the motorruns a lot more safely, brns out carbon and beter fuel mileage.
Schlicten: for non turbo it is still a good kit. You have the gains for the charge air drop (about 1% at the wheels for every 10 degree drop. Snow has seen up to 200 degree intake temp drops as their site says, so that is up to a 20% gain, plus the ign advance you can run.
Matt, feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Schlicten: for non turbo it is still a good kit. You have the gains for the charge air drop (about 1% at the wheels for every 10 degree drop. Snow has seen up to 200 degree intake temp drops as their site says, so that is up to a 20% gain, plus the ign advance you can run.
Matt, feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
03-05-2003, 04:27 PM
#39
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I dont think the intake charge temperature on an NA would be much above the ambient air temperature. The only time I could see benefits on an N/A would be raising the effective octane to be able to run higher compression with an alcohol/methanol injection to prevent detonation. Other than that, I can't see why it would help an N/A car.
03-05-2003, 07:39 PM
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That sounds great, what would the installation be like? and what kind of draw backs are there to this type of mod? Lastly, how much HP are we looking at to a stock 951.
03-05-2003, 11:08 PM
#43
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Brett,
I use the standard windshield washer mixture which is made up of methanol, water, and detergent. Aquamist approves this mixture. At no time did I use tap water. Although now that you mention it, I do have a heavy bolt attached to the end of the tube going in the washer tank to keep it at the bottom. I could be contaminating my fluid with minerals which may be collecting in my jet ?? I had not checked the jet nozzle at all after installing it until this week. Next time my warning light goes off, I will be sure to check it right away.
I use the standard windshield washer mixture which is made up of methanol, water, and detergent. Aquamist approves this mixture. At no time did I use tap water. Although now that you mention it, I do have a heavy bolt attached to the end of the tube going in the washer tank to keep it at the bottom. I could be contaminating my fluid with minerals which may be collecting in my jet ?? I had not checked the jet nozzle at all after installing it until this week. Next time my warning light goes off, I will be sure to check it right away.
03-05-2003, 11:45 PM
#44
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by BoostGuy951:
<strong>I dont think the intake charge temperature on an NA would be much above the ambient air temperature. The only time I could see benefits on an N/A would be raising the effective octane to be able to run higher compression with an alcohol/methanol injection to prevent detonation. Other than that, I can't see why it would help an N/A car.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Just to elaborate on this N/A a bit. If your computer is retarding the ignition timing for whatever reason, then the water injection can gain you some lost HP. Like to compensate for poor octane rated gasoline, (Calif 91 comes to mind
). It won't make HP where there is none, it just gets the timing back where it should be. And who's to say that we're actually getting 91 octane, maybe it's sometimes 90 or 89.
Adding a turbo into the mix just makes the gains more noticeable. My little k26 trying to put out 18psi, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> You could cook a turkey in there! <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
<strong>I dont think the intake charge temperature on an NA would be much above the ambient air temperature. The only time I could see benefits on an N/A would be raising the effective octane to be able to run higher compression with an alcohol/methanol injection to prevent detonation. Other than that, I can't see why it would help an N/A car.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Just to elaborate on this N/A a bit. If your computer is retarding the ignition timing for whatever reason, then the water injection can gain you some lost HP. Like to compensate for poor octane rated gasoline, (Calif 91 comes to mind
). It won't make HP where there is none, it just gets the timing back where it should be. And who's to say that we're actually getting 91 octane, maybe it's sometimes 90 or 89. Adding a turbo into the mix just makes the gains more noticeable. My little k26 trying to put out 18psi, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> You could cook a turkey in there! <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
03-07-2003, 06:51 AM
#45
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Yeah, water-injection won't help an NA much. Unless you have a 13:1 engine or some monster like that.
On the Turbo, the 60-70 degree temperature drop definitely makes a big difference. A K26 pumping out 18psi will heat up the outlet air-temp to over 300F degrees!!! The stock intercooler will drop this down to about 160-170 degrees initially (worse after 5 full-throttle runs). The water-injection will then take it down to about 100 degrees. While this is still higher than ambient temperatures (not as good as an NA), it's definitely better than a stock K26 @ 15psi.
On the Turbo, the 60-70 degree temperature drop definitely makes a big difference. A K26 pumping out 18psi will heat up the outlet air-temp to over 300F degrees!!! The stock intercooler will drop this down to about 160-170 degrees initially (worse after 5 full-throttle runs). The water-injection will then take it down to about 100 degrees. While this is still higher than ambient temperatures (not as good as an NA), it's definitely better than a stock K26 @ 15psi.