Stroker Kit
04-18-2003, 12:12 PM
#1
1st Gear
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Stroker Kit
On another Porsche forum, I read that it costs something like 15K for a stroker kit for a 2.5 into a 2.8... That seems kinda high, but I was wondering, if it is, what parts go into this? The ones that I can think of would be simply:
-Larger Pistons
-Larger Rings
-Longer Rods
-Larger Crank
But then what? I've seen custom pistons for $800, rings can't be more than $200, rods have gone for $1000, and a crank is for $1500. You can't tell me that to hire someone to bore a block would cost $11500... Could someone say what the parts I'm missing and if possible, price them? Thanks.
-Larger Pistons
-Larger Rings
-Longer Rods
-Larger Crank
But then what? I've seen custom pistons for $800, rings can't be more than $200, rods have gone for $1000, and a crank is for $1500. You can't tell me that to hire someone to bore a block would cost $11500... Could someone say what the parts I'm missing and if possible, price them? Thanks.
04-18-2003, 12:26 PM
#2
Racer
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The custom pistons are from Mahle which will run 2X to 3X your estimate amount. Machining the block runs $1000 to $1500 give or take. Upper and lower gasket sets are $400-$500. Labor to build the motor is 15-30 hours @ shop rate. It still doesent add up though, your right. We do big bore 2.8 motors for $6750. So obviously we are with you one why an inferior stroker 2.8 motor should cost so much and further why anyone would even want one vs a big bore 2.8?!?! Take a look at our motor options here: <a href="http://www.huntleyracing.com" target="_blank">www.huntleyracing.com</a>
04-18-2003, 12:44 PM
#3
Drifting
Louis,
There's a pretty good thread that was going on recently that has some good info as well as some links to other good threads.
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=004692" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=0046 92</a>
As far as whats needed, if you are going with a stroker engine you won't need larger pistons, but you will need custom pistons with a higher wrist pin connection. You will need:
-Custom pistons with a higher wrist pins.
-Custom rods matched to the psiton - longer than 3.0 l rods but shorter than th 2.5 l rods.
-3.0 l crank
Powerhaus used to advertise a kit that include the above crank, rods, and pistons for $5,695. Don't know if this is still accurate as this was from a couple of years ago. Also the crank was the high dollar porion of their kit and was sold individually by them for about $3,200 so if you can get a good deal on a used crank you can save yourself some cash.
You will also need:
-larger turbo to take advantage of the extra displacement: $1,200
-bigger infectors/fuel regulator - $500
-piggyback fuel management - $1,000 - $1,200
-3" exhaust with 3" test pipe to let the engine breathe and take advantage of the increased flow - $1,200
Total: $9,795
This does not include any labor, gaskets rings, bearings etc. I am asuuming the $15k number included everything including labor.
If you did some good hunting you may be able to sacve some cash by getting some of the items used such as the crank and turbo. It probably would be worth your time talking to Chris Cervelli from Technodyne since he seems to be one of the more experienced tuners when it comes to 2.8 stroker engines.
Hope this helps.
There's a pretty good thread that was going on recently that has some good info as well as some links to other good threads.
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=004692" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=0046 92</a>
As far as whats needed, if you are going with a stroker engine you won't need larger pistons, but you will need custom pistons with a higher wrist pin connection. You will need:
-Custom pistons with a higher wrist pins.
-Custom rods matched to the psiton - longer than 3.0 l rods but shorter than th 2.5 l rods.
-3.0 l crank
Powerhaus used to advertise a kit that include the above crank, rods, and pistons for $5,695. Don't know if this is still accurate as this was from a couple of years ago. Also the crank was the high dollar porion of their kit and was sold individually by them for about $3,200 so if you can get a good deal on a used crank you can save yourself some cash.
You will also need:
-larger turbo to take advantage of the extra displacement: $1,200
-bigger infectors/fuel regulator - $500
-piggyback fuel management - $1,000 - $1,200
-3" exhaust with 3" test pipe to let the engine breathe and take advantage of the increased flow - $1,200
Total: $9,795
This does not include any labor, gaskets rings, bearings etc. I am asuuming the $15k number included everything including labor.
If you did some good hunting you may be able to sacve some cash by getting some of the items used such as the crank and turbo. It probably would be worth your time talking to Chris Cervelli from Technodyne since he seems to be one of the more experienced tuners when it comes to 2.8 stroker engines.
Hope this helps.
04-18-2003, 01:14 PM
#4
Rennlist Junkie Forever
Skip Wolfe
He won't need larger pistons, but he will need different pistons (raised wrist pins) unless he goes with shorter rods (which screw up the rod angles)... as you mentioned.
To go with different pistons, he'd need to sleeve the block. Another issue for sure $$$.
As far as fuel management (which is why I'm replying in the first place) goes, he could easily fuel the car properly with just larger injectors & chips (simply to remove the overboost protection and rpm limit) and the Lindsey MAF/Pro-M controller.
I was able to easily fuel my car properly, at 365rwh with that combo and I'm only currently using about 75% of the MAF flow/metering capability. There's a lot left.
This fueling solution, would save enough so that he could get the block sleeved :-) heheheh
He won't need larger pistons, but he will need different pistons (raised wrist pins) unless he goes with shorter rods (which screw up the rod angles)... as you mentioned.
To go with different pistons, he'd need to sleeve the block. Another issue for sure $$$.
As far as fuel management (which is why I'm replying in the first place) goes, he could easily fuel the car properly with just larger injectors & chips (simply to remove the overboost protection and rpm limit) and the Lindsey MAF/Pro-M controller.
I was able to easily fuel my car properly, at 365rwh with that combo and I'm only currently using about 75% of the MAF flow/metering capability. There's a lot left.
This fueling solution, would save enough so that he could get the block sleeved :-) heheheh
04-18-2003, 05:02 PM
#5
Drifting
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by TonyG:
<strong>Skip Wolfe
He won't need larger pistons, but he will need different pistons (raised wrist pins) unless he goes with shorter rods (which screw up the rod angles)... as you mentioned.
To go with different pistons, he'd need to sleeve the block. Another issue for sure $$$.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Tony - I agree with you on the piston size. In fact that's what I said in my post...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Skip Wolfe:
<strong>Louis,
...As far as whats needed, if you are going with a stroker engine you won't need larger pistons, but you will need custom pistons with a higher wrist pin connection...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Derrek from Huntley was the one who was saying go with the larger piston in his post about going with a bore 2.8 rather than a stroker 2.8.
<strong>Skip Wolfe
He won't need larger pistons, but he will need different pistons (raised wrist pins) unless he goes with shorter rods (which screw up the rod angles)... as you mentioned.
To go with different pistons, he'd need to sleeve the block. Another issue for sure $$$.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Tony - I agree with you on the piston size. In fact that's what I said in my post...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Skip Wolfe:
<strong>Louis,
...As far as whats needed, if you are going with a stroker engine you won't need larger pistons, but you will need custom pistons with a higher wrist pin connection...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Derrek from Huntley was the one who was saying go with the larger piston in his post about going with a bore 2.8 rather than a stroker 2.8.
04-18-2003, 05:24 PM
#6
Rennlist Junkie Forever
Skip
You're correct about Huntley and the 2.8 overbore setup. It uses sleeves and aftermarket pistons and is probably considerably less than the stoker 2.8 since only pistons and sleeves have to be purchased/machined.
Personally... I don't see much of a reason to go to 2.8 when 2.5's will make a ton of power and cost a LOT less!
If I was going to mess around with the stroker thing, I'd just skip the 2.8 and go straight past go and do a 3.2 (almost the exact same cost as a 2.8 stroker motor with the only added cost being a block and some minor machine work to the water passages on the head). Then you'd have a 25%+ increase in displacement. Now we're talking power.
You're correct about Huntley and the 2.8 overbore setup. It uses sleeves and aftermarket pistons and is probably considerably less than the stoker 2.8 since only pistons and sleeves have to be purchased/machined.
Personally... I don't see much of a reason to go to 2.8 when 2.5's will make a ton of power and cost a LOT less!
If I was going to mess around with the stroker thing, I'd just skip the 2.8 and go straight past go and do a 3.2 (almost the exact same cost as a 2.8 stroker motor with the only added cost being a block and some minor machine work to the water passages on the head). Then you'd have a 25%+ increase in displacement. Now we're talking power.
04-18-2003, 06:14 PM
#7
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There is no replacement for displacement 
Boost is good. Boost and cubes are really good together! I can feel it when I drive my 2.0 turbo Mitsubishi Eclipse. It is an inline 4 w/ balance shafts AND it has DOHC and 4 valves per cyl, pent-roof combustion chamber and hits 15 PSI regularly, but it just doesn't have the punch that even my stock 951 has w/ just 1/2 liter seperating them. I just extrapolate that when I think of a properly done 16 valve 3.0L (or as Tony suggested, a 3.2). Yikes!
Boost is good. Boost and cubes are really good together! I can feel it when I drive my 2.0 turbo Mitsubishi Eclipse. It is an inline 4 w/ balance shafts AND it has DOHC and 4 valves per cyl, pent-roof combustion chamber and hits 15 PSI regularly, but it just doesn't have the punch that even my stock 951 has w/ just 1/2 liter seperating them. I just extrapolate that when I think of a properly done 16 valve 3.0L (or as Tony suggested, a 3.2). Yikes!
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04-18-2003, 06:29 PM
#8
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My understanding is that you could build a 2.8l stroker with just a 2.5l motor, a 3.0l crank and rods, and a little clearancing of the block. Is this not the case? A longer rod and a custom piston that moves the wrist pin up closer to the ring package would be nice but would add to the cost substantially. If you were building enough HP to warrant a long rod motor you'd probably want to go with a siamese block anyway, with all that that entails.
-Joel.
-Joel.
