Welt sway bar clunck?
05-25-2003, 09:14 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
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Welt sway bar clunck?
I replaced my rear sway bar and now when make a hard turn on a non flat road and go into driveways I get a clunk sound. Is this normal with the Welt bars? It seems a little odd to me how the mount to the spring plate has the swivel joint.
I would also like suggestions on where to start with setup once I get the front bar mounted. I was thinking of setting the front bar to the middle position then adjusting the rear for the best feel?? Or since the front bars are so big setting the rear to it's stiffest position and then adjusting the front for the best feel??
The car is used mostly on the street with auto cross and hopefully DE's in it's future.
I would also like suggestions on where to start with setup once I get the front bar mounted. I was thinking of setting the front bar to the middle position then adjusting the rear for the best feel?? Or since the front bars are so big setting the rear to it's stiffest position and then adjusting the front for the best feel??
The car is used mostly on the street with auto cross and hopefully DE's in it's future.
05-27-2003, 03:06 PM
#2
Race Director
Make sure you have the swaybar centered with the hose-clamps, the ends will move laterally and hit stuff. Those clamps are the most idiotic system I've ever seen. They chew into the bushings and cut their ends off. I've found that you have to rotate the fat adjustable part of the hose-clamps up to the triagular corner of the D-bushings so keep them from chewing up the thinner part of the bushings. I've got some split-collar clamps coming to do it right.
On the street I set the front swaybar to mid-range and the rear to full-soft.
On the track, I like the front at full-stiff and the rear about mid-range (+/- 5mm depending up on track). I only adjust the rear at the track because it's faster and easier. Just crawl under the car and make adjustments, no need to jack anything up (watch out for hot exahust).
The measurement I take is with a ruler from the edge of the drop-link clamp to the end of the sway-bar. Take notes on your settings and the resulting lap-times; the fastest times will have a setting that appears counter-intuitive.
On the street I set the front swaybar to mid-range and the rear to full-soft.
On the track, I like the front at full-stiff and the rear about mid-range (+/- 5mm depending up on track). I only adjust the rear at the track because it's faster and easier. Just crawl under the car and make adjustments, no need to jack anything up (watch out for hot exahust).
The measurement I take is with a ruler from the edge of the drop-link clamp to the end of the sway-bar. Take notes on your settings and the resulting lap-times; the fastest times will have a setting that appears counter-intuitive.
05-27-2003, 05:02 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
I recently put the rear on and heard a clunk too. I guess I'll check the hose clamps. What are split-collar clamps? I've never heard of them. Can i get them at a local hardware store or is there a place to order online? Is there anything else we can use in place of either clamp? Thanks!
05-27-2003, 10:11 PM
#5
Race Director
"Maybe it would work to use a muffler clamp if I cuold find one that small?
Sure, if you can find one that size. A big washer that between the D-bushing and the hose-clamp would work too, but I haven't found such a critter anywhere.
"What are split-collar clamps? I've never heard of them."
These things:
<img src="http://www.gururacing.net/ImagesMisc/SplitCollar.jpg" alt=" - " />
Unfortunately, off-the-shelf parts don't have the correct dimensions, so I'm having some custom ones made. Will report back on them after I've had time to track-test them. If they'rs sufficient interest, I'll do a small production run.
Sure, if you can find one that size. A big washer that between the D-bushing and the hose-clamp would work too, but I haven't found such a critter anywhere.
"What are split-collar clamps? I've never heard of them."
These things:
<img src="http://www.gururacing.net/ImagesMisc/SplitCollar.jpg" alt=" - " />
Unfortunately, off-the-shelf parts don't have the correct dimensions, so I'm having some custom ones made. Will report back on them after I've had time to track-test them. If they'rs sufficient interest, I'll do a small production run.
05-28-2003, 04:15 AM
#6
Rennlist Junkie Forever
The main problem with the Weltmeister bars is that people typically don't have them installed properly, which causes the linkage to bind, and when aligned improperly, will cause the sway bar to move back and forth, hitting the inner fender wall (at the end of the sway bar).
Without going into a ton of details....
You have to remove the drop links from the "A" arm mount.
Get the car on the ground. You cannot do this with the car jacked up.
Then, while on the ground, adjust the drop links so that the bolt will go through it without any tension on the bolt.
And... make sure that you have the angle of the lower drop link mount aligned properly so that the linkage doesn't bind.
Most people, including myself the first time I set these up, had it all wrong.
Here's what I did wrong:
I rotated the lower drop link mount so that it was aligned properly... with the side of car up in the air (so that I could get to it easily). What happens with this, is that the alignement is good.... when the car is up on one side... but all wrong when the car is flat on the ground.
Basically, the little angle brackets that attatch to the A arms, need to be pointing inward at 90 degrees to the direction of the car. When the car is up in the air, the alignment looks all wrong. But on the ground it's perfect.
Also, make sure that you clearance any of the inner fenderwall that might be hitting the end of the sway bar. A Dremel works good here.
I wouldn't use radiator hose clamps as they move around all over the place since oil and grease gets on the bar (since these motors never seal that good to begin with). The split collar is much better solution. Get 4 of them. One on each side of the center sway bar mounts.
Without going into a ton of details....
You have to remove the drop links from the "A" arm mount.
Get the car on the ground. You cannot do this with the car jacked up.
Then, while on the ground, adjust the drop links so that the bolt will go through it without any tension on the bolt.
And... make sure that you have the angle of the lower drop link mount aligned properly so that the linkage doesn't bind.
Most people, including myself the first time I set these up, had it all wrong.
Here's what I did wrong:
I rotated the lower drop link mount so that it was aligned properly... with the side of car up in the air (so that I could get to it easily). What happens with this, is that the alignement is good.... when the car is up on one side... but all wrong when the car is flat on the ground.
Basically, the little angle brackets that attatch to the A arms, need to be pointing inward at 90 degrees to the direction of the car. When the car is up in the air, the alignment looks all wrong. But on the ground it's perfect.
Also, make sure that you clearance any of the inner fenderwall that might be hitting the end of the sway bar. A Dremel works good here.
I wouldn't use radiator hose clamps as they move around all over the place since oil and grease gets on the bar (since these motors never seal that good to begin with). The split collar is much better solution. Get 4 of them. One on each side of the center sway bar mounts.
05-28-2003, 05:40 AM
#7
Race Director
Yup, alignment of the heim-joints is critical. While they do have some allowance for lateral rotation, it's best to keep their movements in the same plane.
On the top of the drop-link, this joint pivots with the sway-bar, so align it to rotate on a vertical plane that's aligned front-to-rear in the same direction as the car moves.
The joint on the bottom of the drop link, moves with the A-arm. Which pivots on a plane that goes across the car.
If the ends of the front sway-bar hits the inner fender, the hose-clamps are slipping. I've found that using two hose-clamps per side (4 per D-bushing) pretty much keeps the bar from slipping sideways. Tighten the hose-clamps really tightly with a ratchen, not screwdriver. But this still doesn't solve the problem of the bushing getting chewed up by the hose-clamps.
On the top of the drop-link, this joint pivots with the sway-bar, so align it to rotate on a vertical plane that's aligned front-to-rear in the same direction as the car moves.
The joint on the bottom of the drop link, moves with the A-arm. Which pivots on a plane that goes across the car.
If the ends of the front sway-bar hits the inner fender, the hose-clamps are slipping. I've found that using two hose-clamps per side (4 per D-bushing) pretty much keeps the bar from slipping sideways. Tighten the hose-clamps really tightly with a ratchen, not screwdriver. But this still doesn't solve the problem of the bushing getting chewed up by the hose-clamps.
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05-28-2003, 04:34 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
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Danno, would you need them on the front and the rear bars?
<a href="http://www.collarsandcouplings.com/" target="_blank">http://www.collarsandcouplings.com/</a>
Would any of these work?
<a href="http://www.collarsandcouplings.com/" target="_blank">http://www.collarsandcouplings.com/</a>
Would any of these work?
05-28-2003, 09:38 PM
#10
Three Wheelin'
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Well I guess my problem is probably the hose clamps then. I did not put them tight up against the bushing, I did not realize how important they were. It seems that Collars and Couplings doesn't really want to sell to the consumer???
