A Pain in the Garage
01-31-2002, 12:13 AM
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A Pain in the Garage
Ok this is the saga.
Drove the 951 into the garage with a major rear main seal leak. Three weeks later, I have replaced the main seal, motor mounts, cleaned/repacked the CV's, added centerforce clutch, lightened the flywheel (all three sensor tabs in place), shimmed the wastegate 3.5 mm and added a 3 bar FPR.
All back together, turn the key, the engine starts then proceeds to rev to redline??????
The only way to stop it is to turn it off. My first thought was the fuel pressure was overcoming the injectors. Reinstalled the OEM FPR and no change (rev's to redline). Left in OEM FPR.
Where is it getting air? how is it reving with a closed AFM. Checked the barn door, closed at static, opened and closed smoothly when pushed. Removed the connector at the AFM thinking it would idle under limp home mode. Car started attempted to rev, then died. Aaargh!
Could the wastegate be bound closed? Removed one shim to bring it from 3.5 mm to 2.4 mm. Started, revved to redline. No change.
Pulled ref/speed sensors, no apparent damage. Did not collide with tangs on flywheel.
All vaccum lines connected, boot between AFM and Turbo tight.
Anybody got any thoughts? This one has me stumped!
Drove the 951 into the garage with a major rear main seal leak. Three weeks later, I have replaced the main seal, motor mounts, cleaned/repacked the CV's, added centerforce clutch, lightened the flywheel (all three sensor tabs in place), shimmed the wastegate 3.5 mm and added a 3 bar FPR.
All back together, turn the key, the engine starts then proceeds to rev to redline??????
The only way to stop it is to turn it off. My first thought was the fuel pressure was overcoming the injectors. Reinstalled the OEM FPR and no change (rev's to redline). Left in OEM FPR.
Where is it getting air? how is it reving with a closed AFM. Checked the barn door, closed at static, opened and closed smoothly when pushed. Removed the connector at the AFM thinking it would idle under limp home mode. Car started attempted to rev, then died. Aaargh!
Could the wastegate be bound closed? Removed one shim to bring it from 3.5 mm to 2.4 mm. Started, revved to redline. No change.
Pulled ref/speed sensors, no apparent damage. Did not collide with tangs on flywheel.
All vaccum lines connected, boot between AFM and Turbo tight.
Anybody got any thoughts? This one has me stumped!
01-31-2002, 02:56 AM
#3
Race Director
1. Take off the pipe between the intercooler and the throttle body and make sure the throttle-butterfly is closed all the way.
2. Other possibility is the idle-stabilizer may be letting through too much air.
3. Another idea is that you got the hoses for the idle-stabilizer mixed up with the hoses for the evaporative canister.
To check #2 & 3, disconnect the two 1" hoses between the #1/2/3 intake runners and plug them up. Also plug up the free hose ends.
Other than that, I have no idea where sources of air can be fnding its way in, unless you have a massive leak behind the throttle-body somewhere.
2. Other possibility is the idle-stabilizer may be letting through too much air.
3. Another idea is that you got the hoses for the idle-stabilizer mixed up with the hoses for the evaporative canister.
To check #2 & 3, disconnect the two 1" hoses between the #1/2/3 intake runners and plug them up. Also plug up the free hose ends.
Other than that, I have no idea where sources of air can be fnding its way in, unless you have a massive leak behind the throttle-body somewhere.
02-11-2002, 01:07 PM
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Car Fixed!
Keith and Danno, you guys were right on the money!
The throttle cable has a coupler where it enters the firewall. When I lifted the engine to install the motor mounts, the engine must have moved forward. This pulled the coupler out of the fire wall, tensioning the cable and opening the butterfly valve. This is what caused the engine to rev to redline.
Also the timed valve has plastic connectors for the vacuum lines. Two of the three nipples snapped off, creating a small vacuum leak.
The car runs great! With the smimmed wastegate and 3 bar fpr I have some new found power. It is sure fun ROCKETING past everyone!
I cant wait to follow Rage2 down the path to some REAL horsepower!
Life is good again!
Keith and Danno, you guys were right on the money!
The throttle cable has a coupler where it enters the firewall. When I lifted the engine to install the motor mounts, the engine must have moved forward. This pulled the coupler out of the fire wall, tensioning the cable and opening the butterfly valve. This is what caused the engine to rev to redline.
Also the timed valve has plastic connectors for the vacuum lines. Two of the three nipples snapped off, creating a small vacuum leak.
The car runs great! With the smimmed wastegate and 3 bar fpr I have some new found power. It is sure fun ROCKETING past everyone!
I cant wait to follow Rage2 down the path to some REAL horsepower!
Life is good again!
02-16-2002, 04:31 AM
#5
Race Director
The car runs great! With the smimmed wastegate and 3 bar fpr I have some new found power. It is sure fun ROCKETING past everyone!
So Bill, how do you like your 10lb lighter flywheel/clutch assembly?
As for following Rage2's SDS route, it's going to be much, much easier than you think. I'm working with an unnamed high-end tuning shop on coming up with a wiring adapter to plug the SDS straight into the harness plugs left by the DME/KLR when you remove them. And I'll have a op-amp circuit to translate the 0-1v TPS signal into 0-5v outputs. AND, it'll use the stock flywheel sensors (all three needed). You won't even have to run any new wires under the hood even, true plug & play; unlike the drivel that Microsoft's been pushing. Stay Tuned!
So Bill, how do you like your 10lb lighter flywheel/clutch assembly?
As for following Rage2's SDS route, it's going to be much, much easier than you think. I'm working with an unnamed high-end tuning shop on coming up with a wiring adapter to plug the SDS straight into the harness plugs left by the DME/KLR when you remove them. And I'll have a op-amp circuit to translate the 0-1v TPS signal into 0-5v outputs. AND, it'll use the stock flywheel sensors (all three needed). You won't even have to run any new wires under the hood even, true plug & play; unlike the drivel that Microsoft's been pushing. Stay Tuned!
02-16-2002, 01:01 PM
#6
Race Car
[quote] true plug & play; <hr></blockquote>
The eagle has landed
One giant
leap for mankind..!
I hate pulling, conecting, soldering, and dealing that friction tape crap...
The eagle has landed
One giant
leap for mankind..!
I hate pulling, conecting, soldering, and dealing that friction tape crap...
02-18-2002, 03:00 AM
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[quote]true plug & play; unlike the drivel that Microsoft's been pushing. Stay Tuned! <hr></blockquote>
Danno,
Sounds great!
I will open my check book for a plug adaptor, as opposed to cut and solder.
I have heard that when a SDS system is installed, you lose the use of some of the gauges. Will your set up cure this problem?
Danno,
Sounds great!
I will open my check book for a plug adaptor, as opposed to cut and solder.
I have heard that when a SDS system is installed, you lose the use of some of the gauges. Will your set up cure this problem?
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02-18-2002, 01:23 PM
#9
Race Director
wowzers!! 
when is this going to be offered (ballpark figure)...i was going to mass flow in a year..shall i wait??
sounds too good to be true. i love the idea of plug and play engine mngmnt!!!
count me in
when is this going to be offered (ballpark figure)...i was going to mass flow in a year..shall i wait??
sounds too good to be true. i love the idea of plug and play engine mngmnt!!!
count me in
02-18-2002, 09:38 PM
#10
Race Director
Bill, you won't lose any gauges other than the boost. That's because the KLR had a pressure-transducer that converted physical boost-pressure into an electrical signal for the gauge. All the idiot lights are wired directly to their respective sensors/swithes so that won't require any rewiring. The speed & tach will need pass-through wiring that's all. I'm thinking about including a ratio-adjuster for the speedo so you can set it just right...
Anyway, I'll be working up the prototype later on this month and give you guys the details. Once this harness-adapter is developed, most likely we'll bundle it as a complete package with a pre-programmed SDS unit:
Anyway, I'll be working up the prototype later on this month and give you guys the details. Once this harness-adapter is developed, most likely we'll bundle it as a complete package with a pre-programmed SDS unit:
- pre-programmed SDS EM-3 4F unit (for 52/55/72 lb/hr injectors, whatever you want)
- wiring-harness adapter (SDS to DME/KLR plugs)
- wiring-adapter to plug MAP-sensor into stock AFM wiring
- filter-elbow with K&N cone filter (rip out entire stock intake tracts)
- mounting bracket for coil packs (fits where distributor-cap is now, can use stock spark wires)
02-18-2002, 11:14 PM
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Okay Danno, I am impressed. That is kick ***!
Looks like I must have got to you that night when I was drunk and calling you names.
I want in soon, before 951 DME and KLR boxes become WORTHLESS!
I like the ratio adjuster for the speedo as well. When I was on the dyno the other day, I did a run in fourth gear up to 6700 rpm. My speedometer showed 150mph. They dyno operator told me that my max mph was 137. This of course was with 245/45-16 tires.
Looks like I must have got to you that night when I was drunk and calling you names.
I want in soon, before 951 DME and KLR boxes become WORTHLESS!
I like the ratio adjuster for the speedo as well. When I was on the dyno the other day, I did a run in fourth gear up to 6700 rpm. My speedometer showed 150mph. They dyno operator told me that my max mph was 137. This of course was with 245/45-16 tires.
02-19-2002, 09:30 AM
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Danno:
would this adapter work with other systems like teh DTA? The SDS do not have a launch control or a boost controler or a wide lamda sensor (o² sensor) and tehre fore I think a better system would give me more for my money since I do not need an extra boost controler.
check the <a href="http://www.dtafast.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.dtafast.co.uk/</a>
and tell me what do you think
Konstantin
would this adapter work with other systems like teh DTA? The SDS do not have a launch control or a boost controler or a wide lamda sensor (o² sensor) and tehre fore I think a better system would give me more for my money since I do not need an extra boost controler.
check the <a href="http://www.dtafast.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.dtafast.co.uk/</a>
and tell me what do you think
Konstantin
02-20-2002, 02:48 AM
#13
Race Director
Nope, the harness adaptors will be "black box" devices that take a certain known set of inputs and matches them with a certain known set of outputs. In this case, matching up the stock harness at the DME/KLR connector to the plugs on the SDS unit. I chose this system because of its simpicity and low number of connections that needed matching.
A more complicated harness can be done in the future that can use the ABS sensors to drive a traction-control computer. A wide-band O2-sensor input would be great because we can then stay in close-loop operation full time as well. This would actually reduce tuning time by quite a bit and saves a lot of money on dyno testing as well. I'll definitely keep this in mind. Thanks Konstantin!
A more complicated harness can be done in the future that can use the ABS sensors to drive a traction-control computer. A wide-band O2-sensor input would be great because we can then stay in close-loop operation full time as well. This would actually reduce tuning time by quite a bit and saves a lot of money on dyno testing as well. I'll definitely keep this in mind. Thanks Konstantin!