m42racer

Actually, it is coming along quite well thank you.

adrial

m42racer, well...who is building it?

I thought this project was for the good of the 944 community...

porshhhh951

im sorry but, this seems stupid.Are you sure you arent doing this to stroke your ego.I agree with dmoffitt! Its not hard to get a little more performance out of your machine which someone else spend mucho $$$ on.You say this is to benefit us...but yet you give no real answer's?? you reply's are vague and indecisive.WHO IS BUILDING THE ENGINE????? there do you understand the question wait maybe i should ask again WHO IS BUILDING THE ENGINE?????...or maybe you are just making all of this up...i have run into plently of "tire kickers" in my time...are you one???

m42racer

Yep! Now what?

Anyway, who are you to judge me. I have not done anything here but voice my disapointment with the products available to us 951 owners. Have YOU bothered to take a look at whats offered to the 911 crowd. By what I read of what you have done to your car, you just may want some new things. If its my ego, as you say, so what. I happen to have had alot of work done to my 930, which was posted on the 930 forum some time ago. Take a look. As for what is been made, who's doing it, why does this matter. If you think I'm tirekicking, why should you be concerned. One of the problems with the aftermarket is the cynicism that the buying public have of the products and services rendered. You seem to be exhibiting similar traits towards me. Does this ever stop.

As for who's doing the work, no deal, I'm not telling. But I will say that the 951 world has never seen anyone of this caliber, period. Yep, you should stick to pissing me off, because the person/company who is doing the work is way out of your league. Ask Danno. I know he has been to this place. A 951 engine to them is like a lawnmower to us. 1500HP+ from a 1.5L Turbo engine is their bread and butter. This particular person cut his teeth on these F1 engines, and a 2 world championship to boot. How do you like them apples?

porshhhh951

lmao!! are you still suffering from your high school bully days. I wasent trying to attack you at all..i was just stating in the begining you were trying to do this for everyone(including yourself)and were going to give part information,and turner information..hey i only call them like i see them..when someone askes you a question you answers were very vague ....and now instead of answering a question you turn this into a money pissing contest...how do you even know what i do for a living,how much money i make a year,and if the turner doing your work is as you so elequently put it "way out of my league"wtf are you doing posting on here anyways.You sure are defensive..i was stating what everyone one else on here is thinking...why bother with posting something about your car and trying to share turner and part imformation with everyone...if every time someone askes you a question ..you dont respond...or come back with stupid remarks as....well i dont need to explain anything to you cause hell you arent even in my league...lmao is this the way you really feel??? i am sorry if i offened you...you obviously are on some serious self high...i am glad you had all this great stuff done to your 930...and i hope your engine goes well...just dont start a post saying your are doing all this for the 944 community..what are you our ****ing savior or something??? I like apples just fine...maybe you should go and try and impress some of the ladies with your big endless bank account and leave all of us bottom feeders alone....lol...fyi i make alot more money than you think...the real players however dont talk about how big there bank account really is...your a joke

porshhhh951

lmao!! sorry i am just laughing at the hole situation...thinking some people never quite grow up...sorry if i offended you man....go eat a apple..lol <img border="0" alt="[offtopic]" title="" src="graemlins/offtopic.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />

evil 944t

Wow! Thats all I can say...

Russ Murphy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> As for who's doing the work, no deal, I'm not telling. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I don't get it. You started the topic on a public FORUM, supposedly to improve the upgrade offerings for the 951 crowd and now you're not telling. Waaaaahhhh. What possible issue do you see with disclosing the result of your much ballyhooed (by you,I might add) engine builder search. Bizarre.

David Floyd

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> As I have been vocal about the level of engineering available for 951 owners, I have decided to build an engine, whatever it takes to the highest level possible.

I will make the entire build with pics avialable to all on this board</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Don't back out on us now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

m42racer

When most of the parts are designed and made, as promised I WILL post the offerings. Then, as the engine is been built, all stages will be pic'ed and posted.

The problem is simply this. If we were to post what we are making and going to do, then all of the other Tuners will jump on the band wagon. This was the case with the Headgasket they did for Guru. As soon as Guru posted they had one, Huntely went out and copied the idea. They are just trying to protect their possible market.

Russ Murphy

Thanks for responding. Your response still doesn't explain why you won't answer the question of WHO the builder is. WHAT they're doing seems to be what you don't want to divulge (as of yet). Again, why don't you tell us who's building the motor?

dmoffitt

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by m42racer:
<strong>
The problem is simply this. If we were to post what we are making and going to do, then all of the other Tuners will jump on the band wagon. This was the case with the Headgasket they did for Guru. As soon as Guru posted they had one, Huntely went out and copied the idea. They are just trying to protect their possible market.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">1) metal headgaskets have been part of the tuning world forever. i respect danno a lot but lets not blow this outta proportion, there HAVE been other people who thought about it long ago, just maybe not for the 951.

2) Have you ever considered that, if what you are doing is SOOOO radical, you could patent or otherwise protect the idea? You sound as if you are doing something extreme, so if it isn't simply doing the normal routine, but with greater attention to detail / tollerances / materials / quality, then maybe it is unique enough, and could/should be protected... THEN and only then could i understand why you don't / won't share this info.

frankly, however, without getting into another pissing contest with you as happened above in this tread, it appears you are just enjoying feeling like "my **** doesn't stink like yours" either because you are able / willing to spend more money on your car's engine than lots of folks, or because you think it will be THAT much better. not exactly the most healthy nor mature attitude, certainly a far cry from your initial offering of "this is for the 951 community" and such. I'm not going to go on, in fact, I am really trying to regulate how much I say because after reading this last page of posts I was about 30 seconds from posting a rather scathing response... but I sure do hope we've just caught you on a bad day, and that you change your mind, share with us this informtion (I'm always open to new suggestions / tuning ideas. Even if my engine's somewhat built, at the least, I'm always curious).

alkemyst

I can add in coming from the 'Saturn' community...

Maybe I have more disposible income than many on 'that list' with my ideas for the car....but I met with responses as: "If it was better, it'd have been made already", "If it was better, the factory would have done it", "if it was better,..."

The thing with parts in the tuning world is would making them for 'this car' be economically feasible? Once demand is shown it's easy, however, it's hard to show demand for a part not there...only a handful of people 'know' parts, most just buy them once they become available.

Your #2 post though can't be validated either way (if his work is patentable, he couldn't mention it, if it's not patentable, he may still think it is and not mention it).

I believe in freedom of information and one should make their money in their ability at marketing and packaging of it.

dmoffitt

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by alkemyst:
<strong>I believe in freedom of information and one should make their money in their ability at marketing and packaging of it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">well spoken - that was what i was trying to get at....

Danno

I agree with m42racer here on several points.

First, there does need to be more innovation and quality on the products offered for this market. Sure, it doesn't have to be brand-new state-of-the-art science-fiction stuff that nobody has ever seen before. Just adapting an existing product that has been proven in other markets to our 944s and 951s can improve the offerings. Good example is our MAP upgrade kits and metal headgaskets. Just a matter of adapting a tried-and-true product that's already available. Other things that are on the way by us and other vendors is water-injection, intercooler upgrades, traction-control; stuff that's de-rigeur in other 'import' markets, but have been shunned by Porsche owners who tend to have a more conservative and perhaps a little of the "well, if Porsche didn't do it..." attitude.

The second point, that being of suppliers, is one I have a slightly different viewpoint. I do agree that confidentiality is important for product development. This was a tough lesson I learned with the development of our MAP kit before GURU was even started. Public discussions of the kit allowed trolling vendors to pick up on the idea and they went to the manufacturer and tried to obtain an exclusive contract on the crucial MAP-computers that was an integral part of this kit. Luckily, they didn't get the full monopoly on the terms they wanted.

That's partly one of the factors involved in keeping supplier sources secret until a product has been fully tested and production units are shipping. The other one is specialization and expertise. I disagree with m42racer that everything has to be done in-house. I prefer to think that outsourcing allows for quicker development cycles, higher-quality and lower costs in going to someone who specializes in a certain product.

For example, take our Chip Upgrade Kit where all the components come from an outside supplier. I've found that the ReliaBoost controllers to be one of the best. Its all-metal construction is far superior to the LBE whose plastic and rubber internals can get clogged and leak over time. It's also more inexpensive. The chips were another growing pain where I've found that AMD is crap and Intel/NTI have much better offerings. So I go to a specialist to get the best value possible since it would be foolhardy of me to start mining my own silicon and growing my own wafers to build chips in-house. Same thing with the custom-software I licensed to program the chips. Even though I own a computer-consulting business and can do my own Intel 8-bit CPU assembly-programming, I'll let someone else who's much more familar with the code do higher-quality work for me. The value in the product is the intellectual property of tuning knowledge in fine-tuning the chips; I doubt my customer cares if I made the boost-controller or fabbed the chips myself.

That's also why I use the same outfit m42racer uses for mechanical stuff. They've got the F1/Group-C/IMSA-GTP experience, so why do I need to re-invent the wheel? Their experience is going to bring production-level availability of some trick parts that previously had only been availble on a one-off custom basis (and expensive). But even they don't do everything in-house as well. They'll outsource their cam-grinding to another outfit who've got PhDs in valvetrain design (yes there is such a thing). This outfit even wrote their own cam-design and simulation software. Again, why reinvent the wheel in-house if you can outsource quicker and for less money.

So, what my focus with GURU is not to spend all my time slaving away making stuff that's available elsewhere. I'll just be the centralized location that coordinates bringing in the specialists. I don't need my own CNC-mill if I can get someone else to build me parts. For example, this latest GURU product:

<img src="http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/144622/CamberPlates.jpg" alt=" - " />

A caster/camber plate that doesn't raise or lower your car. This allows the weekend autocrosser to quickly change to optimal camber-settings for the event, yet convert right back to a street-setting for driving back home. Since stock ride-height is retained, no need to go with coilovers and stiffer springs just to correct for the plates.