I'm going to build an Engine!!
04-09-2003, 11:40 PM
#31
Racer
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Pistons: JE makes great pistons
Rods: Carillio and Pauter are great rods
Cams: You can have webcam cams, Bob's machine shop cams, cams from any tuner, etc. Pick a grind you like, and there you go
Valve train: Tuners offer pretty much anything you can think of here - inconel valves, titanium valves, various springs (materials, rates, etc.)
Cranks: You can get yours worked over or you can have a billet one made
Heads: P&P, flowbench, o-ring, etc.
For everything you want, I personally don't see a reason to "re-invent the wheel" here. There are many tried and true product available. I'm sure if you call a tuner and ask them what the flow numbers are on their heads, they can tell you (I know Huntley has flowbench results for their options, for example). Good luck getting cam profile numbers - that would be proprietary.
Cam drive design... well, you can put a 968 head on with modification to your headers and manifold. Now you have variocam. If you want VarioCam Plus, I'm sure there's a way to make that work too. Huntley has had an adjustable cam sprocket available for a long time now that allows you to advance and/or retard your cam timing (I'm not exactly sure on the specs, but I'm sure they'd be glad to tell you).
Variable runner length: reference a 993 (or was it a 996?) that has variable runner lengths
New manifold design: There are quite a few options out there from a "stock looking" large plenum/short runner deal to individual throttle bodies and velocity stacks - nothing new there.
6-speed sequential gear box: Mendeola (sp?) makes them (with paddle shifters).
Turbos: ceramic coated, ball bearing, etc. If you want compression maps, call your tuner of choice and see if they can fax them to you.
EFI: How many features do you want? Radio linked telemetry and operating parameters to a computer in the pits? Sure, no problem. EFI Italy has that available - along with a host of other features to choose from. They'll even do custom stuff for you (if you have the money). Link, Motec, Wolf3D, FAST - they all make EFI systems that will work with your 951 - its just a question of what you want and what you want to pay.
I am still having trouble grasping what it is that you want here? Everything you've mentioned has already been done and is available - even the super wild stuff that you probably haven't even thought of.... well, not some super crazy 16V, electronic valve control widget, but you get my point.
Tuners are like shoe salesmen. You come in to the store, tell them what sort of shoe you want and what you're going to be using it for (running, work, x-training, etc), and they'll do there best to find something out there in the world of shoes that suits your needs. And if something doesn't exist, they can probably adapt something to suit your desires (put some Dr. Scholes in my loafers!)
Rods: Carillio and Pauter are great rods
Cams: You can have webcam cams, Bob's machine shop cams, cams from any tuner, etc. Pick a grind you like, and there you go
Valve train: Tuners offer pretty much anything you can think of here - inconel valves, titanium valves, various springs (materials, rates, etc.)
Cranks: You can get yours worked over or you can have a billet one made
Heads: P&P, flowbench, o-ring, etc.
For everything you want, I personally don't see a reason to "re-invent the wheel" here. There are many tried and true product available. I'm sure if you call a tuner and ask them what the flow numbers are on their heads, they can tell you (I know Huntley has flowbench results for their options, for example). Good luck getting cam profile numbers - that would be proprietary.
Cam drive design... well, you can put a 968 head on with modification to your headers and manifold. Now you have variocam. If you want VarioCam Plus, I'm sure there's a way to make that work too. Huntley has had an adjustable cam sprocket available for a long time now that allows you to advance and/or retard your cam timing (I'm not exactly sure on the specs, but I'm sure they'd be glad to tell you).
Variable runner length: reference a 993 (or was it a 996?) that has variable runner lengths
New manifold design: There are quite a few options out there from a "stock looking" large plenum/short runner deal to individual throttle bodies and velocity stacks - nothing new there.
6-speed sequential gear box: Mendeola (sp?) makes them (with paddle shifters).
Turbos: ceramic coated, ball bearing, etc. If you want compression maps, call your tuner of choice and see if they can fax them to you.
EFI: How many features do you want? Radio linked telemetry and operating parameters to a computer in the pits? Sure, no problem. EFI Italy has that available - along with a host of other features to choose from. They'll even do custom stuff for you (if you have the money). Link, Motec, Wolf3D, FAST - they all make EFI systems that will work with your 951 - its just a question of what you want and what you want to pay.
I am still having trouble grasping what it is that you want here? Everything you've mentioned has already been done and is available - even the super wild stuff that you probably haven't even thought of.... well, not some super crazy 16V, electronic valve control widget, but you get my point.
Tuners are like shoe salesmen. You come in to the store, tell them what sort of shoe you want and what you're going to be using it for (running, work, x-training, etc), and they'll do there best to find something out there in the world of shoes that suits your needs. And if something doesn't exist, they can probably adapt something to suit your desires (put some Dr. Scholes in my loafers!)
04-09-2003, 11:55 PM
#32
Not trash those companies, but you really have no clue what you are talking about.
JE makes Pistons. In comparision to some I have seen, and what was installed into my 930, its Timex verses Rolex. There is a lot of power to be made from the Piston design. If you want a paint can going up and down by them. Big bore engines need lightweight parts, not paint cans.
I was waiting for someone to bring up Pauter Rods. Where's the engineering in them. Again, go check out some real engine peolpe and get a load of what they use. The difference is huge.
As for Cams. If you think Webb are power people, think again. You have never had the opportunity to see the difference. You are luckey to get the same lobe on the same shaft. I've been there.
My advice to you is to get out and see the world.
You have no idea what you are missing.
Alot of what we can have is affordable too. The problem is still the same. People in the 951 world think that your quoted parts and suppliers are the best that can be had. Nothing close to it my friend.
Please don't get me started!!
JE makes Pistons. In comparision to some I have seen, and what was installed into my 930, its Timex verses Rolex. There is a lot of power to be made from the Piston design. If you want a paint can going up and down by them. Big bore engines need lightweight parts, not paint cans.
I was waiting for someone to bring up Pauter Rods. Where's the engineering in them. Again, go check out some real engine peolpe and get a load of what they use. The difference is huge.
As for Cams. If you think Webb are power people, think again. You have never had the opportunity to see the difference. You are luckey to get the same lobe on the same shaft. I've been there.
My advice to you is to get out and see the world.
You have no idea what you are missing.
Alot of what we can have is affordable too. The problem is still the same. People in the 951 world think that your quoted parts and suppliers are the best that can be had. Nothing close to it my friend.
Please don't get me started!!
04-10-2003, 01:10 PM
#35
Exactly. Smokey you hit the nail on the head!
We are starved of this sort of technology. Its people like rcldesign that don't know the difference that causes us to accept the same o'l stuff.
Smokey, I'm trying. The only way I see it is to build an engine and ask at the beginning that I want this sort of technology is included.
Hey, thanks for your input.
Simon
We are starved of this sort of technology. Its people like rcldesign that don't know the difference that causes us to accept the same o'l stuff.
Smokey, I'm trying. The only way I see it is to build an engine and ask at the beginning that I want this sort of technology is included.
Hey, thanks for your input.
Simon
04-10-2003, 01:19 PM
#36
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Aluminum sleeves already exist. It's a part that can be ordered for the 2.5L block (not the 3.0L).
04-10-2003, 01:30 PM
#37
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fast951, I'd like information on where these sleeves can be obtained. There used to be a supply originally manufactured for the Rothmans cars available in Ontario, but they're all gone. My mechanic was rebuilding a 928 engine with one scored cylindder(same cylinders as a 944) this winter, and there were none to be found in North America or Germany. He had to get a reconditioned block from Porsche in Germany, which had been resleeved to standard diameter in aluminum. But he couldn't get the sleeves separately.If there is a source for these sleeves, it would be great to know. It seems like there would be a market for them.The oversize pistons, of course, are Rip-Off City.
04-10-2003, 02:25 PM
#38
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smokey,
I'm not sure of today's availability, it's not something I used recently. Few years back, Motorwerks in San Diego could get the sleeves and install them 800.841.1014 (old number!).
Also, during a recent trip overseas, I came across a machinist that can get the sleeves. However, importing them might be a pain. And it's not something I want to be involved in.
Good luck, and report your findings to the list.
I'm not sure of today's availability, it's not something I used recently. Few years back, Motorwerks in San Diego could get the sleeves and install them 800.841.1014 (old number!).
Also, during a recent trip overseas, I came across a machinist that can get the sleeves. However, importing them might be a pain. And it's not something I want to be involved in.
Good luck, and report your findings to the list.
04-15-2003, 04:35 PM
#41
Burning Brakes
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Boostguy: it's generally agreed that variocam is not a good thing for turbo motors. 968 people get rid of it when they turbocharge, a lot of the time.
Adding it to an NA motor might be interesting, but probably not worth the effort... plus you would have to do it to an S2 or S, and there just aren't enough people that would want to do it to make it feasible.
Adding it to an NA motor might be interesting, but probably not worth the effort... plus you would have to do it to an S2 or S, and there just aren't enough people that would want to do it to make it feasible.
04-16-2003, 04:01 PM
#43
try here for the Alusil sleves
<a href="http://www.msi-motor-service.de/ks/en/kataloge/broschueren.asp" target="_blank">http://www.msi-motor-service.de/ks/en/kataloge/broschueren.asp</a>
<a href="http://www.msi-motor-service.de/ks/en/kataloge/broschueren.asp" target="_blank">http://www.msi-motor-service.de/ks/en/kataloge/broschueren.asp</a>
04-16-2003, 10:59 PM
#44
Yes. I have selected a company to build this engine, under the requirements that all of the Internals are new, with the exception of the Crank, and Block, Head, Covers,etc.
New parts are;
Complete Valve train parts, Valves, Springs etc
Camshaft
Cam Drive system
Head Studs/Gasket
Pistons
Rods
Turbo
Engine Management
Exhaust system
Air Inlet system
No parts can be from existing 944 manufacturers, with the exception of Turbo, exhaust system etc. These can be from existing manufacturers, but must be of new design or configuration.
Other parts will be modified to bring up to required standard. I have given them the deposit and they have started. As soon as I can I will start the regular posts with pic's.
Simon
New parts are;
Complete Valve train parts, Valves, Springs etc
Camshaft
Cam Drive system
Head Studs/Gasket
Pistons
Rods
Turbo
Engine Management
Exhaust system
Air Inlet system
No parts can be from existing 944 manufacturers, with the exception of Turbo, exhaust system etc. These can be from existing manufacturers, but must be of new design or configuration.
Other parts will be modified to bring up to required standard. I have given them the deposit and they have started. As soon as I can I will start the regular posts with pic's.
Simon
04-16-2003, 11:15 PM
#45
To make clear of a couple of points, the cam drive system is new Pulleys, belt etc. Not Vario.
I researched the aluminum Liners and came to a dead end. If our engines had wet liners, the company would make them. As our engines have dry liners, the liners would have to be installed, bored, honed and then coated with the nikesil coating. I was told that before, they made them ready to install completely finished. Problems arose with the proper clamping loads and the final bore sizes staying round etc. They had many failures, too many to continue. They recommended the steel liner, or if Aluminum was required, they would coat after liner was installed. I was told this process is very expensive and required the block to be sent to Germany. I asked if they would make the liners and allow the US company to coat the liners. A VERY load no was the reply. Looks like we will have to stay with the steel liners. No problem. Every Aluminum V8 has them.
I researched the aluminum Liners and came to a dead end. If our engines had wet liners, the company would make them. As our engines have dry liners, the liners would have to be installed, bored, honed and then coated with the nikesil coating. I was told that before, they made them ready to install completely finished. Problems arose with the proper clamping loads and the final bore sizes staying round etc. They had many failures, too many to continue. They recommended the steel liner, or if Aluminum was required, they would coat after liner was installed. I was told this process is very expensive and required the block to be sent to Germany. I asked if they would make the liners and allow the US company to coat the liners. A VERY load no was the reply. Looks like we will have to stay with the steel liners. No problem. Every Aluminum V8 has them.