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I'm thinking about getting some chips for my 951. However, I plan on getting a larger turbo in a few months. Most likely a T04E. Should I even bother with the chips or just save my money?

Russ Murphy

The answer is heck yes! To the chips that is.
You can always find a home for the chips when you get your bigfat turbo or even continue to run them with it ala Lindsay Racing's project car. I'm installing a SDS programmable engine management system and I have a set of
APE Stage II chips that would fit your car(24pin eproms). Contact me if you're interested. They'll be inexpensive.
Russ

Ski

Correct bother with them,,,chips, test pipe and exhaust are probably the best "do it yourself, bang for the buck" that you can do for the 951. Immediate results, simple tools, and ease of installation. If you have not done the chips before do a search in the archives and there are several posts regarding installation. You can usually find a set like Russ has for sale..his or classifieds, from someone doing an upgrade.

Danno

Just a quick reminder that it's not the chips that provide you with the power increase, it's the higher boost. All the chips do is ensure that you have adequate fuel for your new increased flow. The secret is in getting more air flowing through your engine with higher boost and all the chip kits include a way to do that, with wastegate shims or banjo bolt mods. I would skip the banjo bolt and shim the wastegate along with a manual boost-controller. Or better yet, get a electronic boost controller like the AVC-R.

michael2e

Danno, so if I'm using a Lindsey Boost enhancer in a stock engine should I not expect much further HP gains from the addition of chips? From your explanation it seems as though I would already be maximizing airflow since there is no bleed off of the boost until I get to 10 PSI (with the factory preset on the LBE.) Or am I jeopardizing the HG with lean conditions at higher boost or RPM with this setup? Also, is there a role for wastegate shims if one has a LBE? I run steady boost right up to 2 bar on the stock guage that holds to 6000RPM. (don't have a real boost guage yet). BTW what is the advantage of an aftermarket wastegate or electronic boost controller over the inexpensive and effective LBE?
Thanks

Mike

Danno

Michael, you've got a couple of independent factors mixed together here. So let's separate them.

LBE-LindseyBoostEnchancer: Primary benefit over stock cycling-valve/KLR is that it doesn't roll on boost lazily or roll off boost at high-RPM like the CV. So the benefits here are that you have more instant response at a lower-RPM and maintain high-RPM power. However, it DOES NOT increase your boost, so max-power shouldn't be much different than stock.

STOCK WASTEGATE: There's a lot of confusing data out there about this one. I think it's because people don't separate the boost-controller from the wastegate. With these two components and 2/3 possibilities (wastegate/boost controller & stock/2 aftermarket types), we end up with a cartesian product of 6 POSSIBLE combinations.[list=1][*]Stock wastegate & CV/KLR: well, we know that the KLR rolls off boost at high-RPM
[*]Stock wastegate & manual-controller: This is the most common upgrade. However, a manual controller will ALWAYS bleed off boost at high-RPM, especially with a stock wastegate. That's because the controller doesn't take into account the rising exhaust-pressure acting on the wastegate valve and it doesn't know the boost-curve of the turbo. This leads many people into the next upgrade...
[*]Aftermarket wastegate & manual controller: Well, this is a little better depending upon the particular wastegate you get. Dual-port wastegates are de-rigeur, but many people have also blown up their engines by hooking these up backwards. This combination also have dropping boost at high-RPM because of the manual controller, but not as dramatic as stock, leading people to think that the wastegate upgrade fixed things, but...
[*]Stock wastegate & electronic controller: This combination may actually outperform the last one. That's because an electronic controller with fuzzy-logic and memory can learn the particular boost-curve of your turbo and the wastegate's behavior. You'd also want to shim the wastegate a bit to increase tension and guarantee that it stays shut like the controller wants. The controller can then provide a variable control signal to maintain a flat boost-curve. This is typically done by bleeding off the signal to the wastegate at high-RPM in anticipation of increasing exhaust pressure and falling boost from the turbo. Many people have used this combination with 350hp+ cars and gotten perfectly flat boost-curves. You can even program the controller to have lower-boost in 1st&2nd for less tire-spin on launches. This combination costs about the same as the last one, but gives better performance and tuning options.
[*]Aftermarket wastegate & electronic boost controller: no one will argue that this is the best option. But at double the price of the last combo, it provides limited gains unless you're building a 400hp+ car. There are plenty of people out there with 300hp+ cars using the stock wastegate.[/list=a]So in a nutshell, you've been able to use the LBE with stock chips because it doesn't raise your boost over stock. It CAN be adjusted to give you more boost and with appropriate chips, you'll have more max-power as well. But you want to be very careful about running any mods that increase airflow on an engine with stock chips.

Dan87951

Danno,
Interesting information, just curious what boost controller you recommend with the information you have given.

Danno

I like the Apexi AVC-R boost controller. Works real well with some neat features. The gear-based boost level settings are great. So is being able to adust boost to different levels based upon RPM. And the data-logging features are great for tuning so you can really plot what your boost-curve looks like. Get one here for $399 (free shipping):

Titan Motorsports - AVC-R boost controller

michael2e

Well I guess there are those who just want to bolt stuff on and go faster and then there are those of us who enjoy the technical aspects of why it all works. Your explanation makes sense and is consistent with my understanding that even a stock turbo if not properly controlled can readily overboost and blow an engine.

Thanks again, Mike

Dan87951

I had a Lindsey Boost enhancer once and was able to increase boost with it. However becareful as this thing will SPIKE BIG TIME!! If you still have the directions it will tell you how to increase your boost pressure. If I remember correctly you loosen the 2 bolts that are on it and screw the two halfs closer together. I believe every full turn (360degrees) equals 1psi of boost increase. I had mine set at 15psi and by the time I was in 4th or 5th gear I would boost almost 20psi. SCAREY!! But I cranked it down and it did its job a little better till I got the MBC. In other words you can increase boost with a Lindsey unit but it is not recommended.