What is the best intercooler up-grade?
03-25-2011, 12:10 PM
#31
03-25-2011, 01:06 PM
#32
I am firmly in the "factory did it right" camp. The only improvement that I would look to make on the factory intercooler would be to provide relief venting behind it (ala 968 Turbo RS), which is something I will be doing soon.
The *worst* thing you can do is cut the alleged stock IC inlet restriction off and replace it with something bigger. It WILL NOT FLOW BETTER. Thats not opinion, its fact, and is backed up by a dead dude named Bernoulli who knew what he was talking about. There have been plenty of advances in materials science since the factory IC was designed and built so I am not saying a better IC couldn't be built, but flow dymanics haven't changed and trying to alter inlet speed with a bigger chamber messes EVERYTHING up
If you are pushing 400+rwhp on a track car, a FMIC probably makes some sense. For a street car, you'll get nothing, imo, as it would be the rare occasion that you'll heat soak it, unless like Chris said, you are on the Autobahn.
Fair disclosure, I have done plenty of things on my own cars that have made no sense but I liked it anyway, so if thats your thing, you'll get no argument from me. Have fun!
The *worst* thing you can do is cut the alleged stock IC inlet restriction off and replace it with something bigger. It WILL NOT FLOW BETTER. Thats not opinion, its fact, and is backed up by a dead dude named Bernoulli who knew what he was talking about. There have been plenty of advances in materials science since the factory IC was designed and built so I am not saying a better IC couldn't be built, but flow dymanics haven't changed and trying to alter inlet speed with a bigger chamber messes EVERYTHING up
If you are pushing 400+rwhp on a track car, a FMIC probably makes some sense. For a street car, you'll get nothing, imo, as it would be the rare occasion that you'll heat soak it, unless like Chris said, you are on the Autobahn.
Fair disclosure, I have done plenty of things on my own cars that have made no sense but I liked it anyway, so if thats your thing, you'll get no argument from me. Have fun!
03-25-2011, 01:25 PM
#33
Nordschleife Master
Actually the front mount on my car was installed the 'correct' way as per Tim when i realized what the issue was (core sits under the rad support rather than infront as i was told). Even with the core sitting like this it will still require cutting the bumper bar (though not as much as i had to originally) and it still rests right up against the bumper cover. So the risk of damage is still all there.
Personally i am not worried about it.. plenty of cars running around with front mounts on them, both factory and aftermarket. As long as your not aiming for stuff on the road i dont see what the issue is. If i was worried about getting into an accident everywhere i would be driving a tank.
Personally i am not worried about it.. plenty of cars running around with front mounts on them, both factory and aftermarket. As long as your not aiming for stuff on the road i dont see what the issue is. If i was worried about getting into an accident everywhere i would be driving a tank.
03-25-2011, 01:35 PM
#34
With the stock IC I thought of modifying the hood to fit an air extractor but to do that correctly the hood latch mecanism would have to be relocated somewhere else as it's just in the worst place...
03-25-2011, 01:37 PM
#35
Nordschleife Master
Actually the front mount on my car was installed the 'correct' way as per Tim when i realized what the issue was (core sits under the rad support rather than infront as i was told). Even with the core sitting like this it will still require cutting the bumper bar (though not as much as i had to originally) and it still rests right up against the bumper cover. So the risk of damage is still all there.
Personally i am not worried about it.. plenty of cars running around with front mounts on them, both factory and aftermarket. As long as your not aiming for stuff on the road i dont see what the issue is. If i was worried about getting into an accident everywhere i would be driving a tank.
Personally i am not worried about it.. plenty of cars running around with front mounts on them, both factory and aftermarket. As long as your not aiming for stuff on the road i dont see what the issue is. If i was worried about getting into an accident everywhere i would be driving a tank.
Its not so much "getting into an accident". Even having someone inadvertently back into you in a parking lot happens. Our cars sit very low, and aren't easy to see if the other driver is in the mandatory SUV or minivan. I've had my bumper pushed in 3 times (twice during 1 trip to SoCal), and my fender creased once....all from parking my car at the back of the lot where I thought no one would be around it.
03-25-2011, 02:19 PM
#36
Rainman
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FYI, this section will cut out WAY easier and quicker than the bumper bar. about 15 seconds per side with the demo saw, and you can make a new brace to keep the rails apart like that V8 swap one. that way bumper effectiveness is not compromised and you can bring the FMIC further back, sparing it from more crash damage. not to mention removal of this piece allows for more air to flow through the IC than if it were still there
03-25-2011, 02:23 PM
#37
Rainman
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posted this to help what i said above; note how thick the front body crossmember is, you could move the IC back about 3 or 4 inches with that sheetmetal removed. plus you can see in this picture that the sheetmetal there blocks the top rows from having air through them rendering them almost useless.
plus moving it back means shorter pipes on inlet and outlet which means less volume to fill and less lag
less sheetmetal (actually somewhat hefty for a sheetmetal piece) and less piping also means less weight
03-25-2011, 02:32 PM
#38
I am firmly in the "factory did it right" camp. The only improvement that I would look to make on the factory intercooler would be to provide relief venting behind it (ala 968 Turbo RS), which is something I will be doing soon.
The *worst* thing you can do is cut the alleged stock IC inlet restriction off and replace it with something bigger. It WILL NOT FLOW BETTER. Thats not opinion, its fact, and is backed up by a dead dude named Bernoulli who knew what he was talking about. There have been plenty of advances in materials science since the factory IC was designed and built so I am not saying a better IC couldn't be built, but flow dymanics haven't changed and trying to alter inlet speed with a bigger chamber messes EVERYTHING up
If you are pushing 400+rwhp on a track car, a FMIC probably makes some sense. For a street car, you'll get nothing, imo, as it would be the rare occasion that you'll heat soak it, unless like Chris said, you are on the Autobahn.
Fair disclosure, I have done plenty of things on my own cars that have made no sense but I liked it anyway, so if thats your thing, you'll get no argument from me. Have fun!
The *worst* thing you can do is cut the alleged stock IC inlet restriction off and replace it with something bigger. It WILL NOT FLOW BETTER. Thats not opinion, its fact, and is backed up by a dead dude named Bernoulli who knew what he was talking about. There have been plenty of advances in materials science since the factory IC was designed and built so I am not saying a better IC couldn't be built, but flow dymanics haven't changed and trying to alter inlet speed with a bigger chamber messes EVERYTHING up
If you are pushing 400+rwhp on a track car, a FMIC probably makes some sense. For a street car, you'll get nothing, imo, as it would be the rare occasion that you'll heat soak it, unless like Chris said, you are on the Autobahn.
Fair disclosure, I have done plenty of things on my own cars that have made no sense but I liked it anyway, so if thats your thing, you'll get no argument from me. Have fun!
03-25-2011, 03:10 PM
#39
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If you want the best flow then just by pass the intercooler with a straight pipe. 
The purpose of the intercooler is to exchange the heat from the intake charge to the atmosphere. To exchange the heat in the best manner you need to have the correct flow speed and distribution inside the intercooler – this is needed for optimum contact time in the bar and plate style heat exchanger. If you have a larger intercooler you may be flowing most of the hot air through a small part of the intercooler – the hot air will follow the path of least resistance, it has no regard for the most effect heat transfer.
If the designer of an intercooler was a good engineer he/she would take all this into account when designing the end tanks. Distribution is not straight forward and many of the aftermarket intercoolers are not designed for maximum thermal transfer- just max size and bling.
I would not be surprised if the calculations for max transfer of heat include the need for a small pressure drop to get the right distribution of the flow.
The purpose of the intercooler is to exchange the heat from the intake charge to the atmosphere. To exchange the heat in the best manner you need to have the correct flow speed and distribution inside the intercooler – this is needed for optimum contact time in the bar and plate style heat exchanger. If you have a larger intercooler you may be flowing most of the hot air through a small part of the intercooler – the hot air will follow the path of least resistance, it has no regard for the most effect heat transfer.
If the designer of an intercooler was a good engineer he/she would take all this into account when designing the end tanks. Distribution is not straight forward and many of the aftermarket intercoolers are not designed for maximum thermal transfer- just max size and bling.
I would not be surprised if the calculations for max transfer of heat include the need for a small pressure drop to get the right distribution of the flow.
03-25-2011, 04:13 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
Installing a front mount intercooler that stands in free air is not going to gain you much over a properly ducted factory setup. My experience with intercoolers is slightly odd in that I had the factory IC on my 968 to start with but it was mounted in a strange way down low like a front mount. Needless to say it did not work well and with Motec I could log the intake temps and see them rising on each full throttle gear change. I then went to a UK vendors radiator & intercooler setup designed for SC 968's and that was just as bad. Finally designed my own fairly large front mount with a coarse 60mm core to flow lots of air through to the rad, tucked it tight up against the rad and made use of the 968 radiator airflow duct. Sure enough it works perfectly with intake temps on a hard run never going more than 10 - 15 degrees C above ambient. The other important factor for me was not to effect coolant temps and it seems to work well so far although I have yet to test it on track.
03-25-2011, 04:18 PM
#41
If you want the best flow then just by pass the intercooler with a straight pipe.
The purpose of the intercooler is to exchange the heat from the intake charge to the atmosphere. To exchange the heat in the best manner you need to have the correct flow speed and distribution inside the intercooler – this is needed for optimum contact time in the bar and plate style heat exchanger. If you have a larger intercooler you may be flowing most of the hot air through a small part of the intercooler – the hot air will follow the path of least resistance, it has no regard for the most effect heat transfer.
If the designer of an intercooler was a good engineer he/she would take all this into account when designing the end tanks. Distribution is not straight forward and many of the aftermarket intercoolers are not designed for maximum thermal transfer- just max size and bling.
I would not be surprised if the calculations for max transfer of heat include the need for a small pressure drop to get the right distribution of the flow.
The purpose of the intercooler is to exchange the heat from the intake charge to the atmosphere. To exchange the heat in the best manner you need to have the correct flow speed and distribution inside the intercooler – this is needed for optimum contact time in the bar and plate style heat exchanger. If you have a larger intercooler you may be flowing most of the hot air through a small part of the intercooler – the hot air will follow the path of least resistance, it has no regard for the most effect heat transfer.
If the designer of an intercooler was a good engineer he/she would take all this into account when designing the end tanks. Distribution is not straight forward and many of the aftermarket intercoolers are not designed for maximum thermal transfer- just max size and bling.
I would not be surprised if the calculations for max transfer of heat include the need for a small pressure drop to get the right distribution of the flow.
What's interesting is what happens when you put on a much bigger turbo, which is the case for 99% of the people tuning a 951. Whatever reason or calculations that where used for making the IC intake like it is, would probably be invalid anyway
, it comes out basically to the same price you will spend on a standalone ECU and eliminate the flowmeter...
03-25-2011, 06:32 PM
#43
Racer
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To me it seems like there would be and increase in lag since the pipes are extended and the overall size of the intercooler is bigger.
Or is that not really and issue or is it so little that you wouldn't notice it?
Or is that not really and issue or is it so little that you wouldn't notice it?
