The LS1 swap has begun
08-03-2014, 08:50 PM
#1081
Rennlist Junkie Forever
And no amount of cooler will fix the problem since it's occurring in the bypass circuit and not going to the rack, and thus not going through the cooler.
The Turn One pump is a stock F body pump, internally modified so that this doesn't occur.
The next issue is that both the stock and modified (ala Turn One) pumps put out too much pressure resulting in an over assisted feel. This excess pressure eventually, when used on the race track, will result in a blown power steering rack seal.
Perhaps Turn One could make one with a lower pressure of you could use one of those adjustable in-line bypass devices allowing you to lower the pressure, however that would result in a lot more hydraulic plumbing.
The best solution is to dump all of that and go to an electric pump. The Toyota MR2 Spyder pump is the one to use. It's like $450 new and has a much better steering feel and won't overstress the power steering rack seals.
TonyG
08-03-2014, 11:32 PM
#1082
Rennlist Member
Thanks Tony! You're a great help.
08-04-2014, 11:04 AM
#1083
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Tried to space the windage tray out, it's a no go, it hits the oil pan. Will cut some small windows in the windage tray instead.
Guess I've been lucky, I haven't had any issues with the Turn 1 pump in my car regarding the power steering rack. Now that you've said that I'm sure it'll be the next failure I have.
Guess I've been lucky, I haven't had any issues with the Turn 1 pump in my car regarding the power steering rack. Now that you've said that I'm sure it'll be the next failure I have.
08-15-2014, 04:39 PM
#1084
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Windage tray has been clearanced and oil pan is on. Engine is in the bay and the torque tube is hooked up. Drivers side header is on.
Need to finish reassembly, break it in for an hour, then dyno tune it.
Progress, at last!
Need to finish reassembly, break it in for an hour, then dyno tune it.
Progress, at last!
08-17-2014, 04:13 AM
#1085
Race Director
Ahhh that explains your problem. The F body pump works OK on the street, but it will overheat the fluid on the track due to the continued high rpms. The problem is that the pump will internally bypass the fluid (to avoid creating excess pressure). In doing so, it over heats the fluid and in turn it boils out the reservoir.
And no amount of cooler will fix the problem since it's occurring in the bypass circuit and not going to the rack, and thus not going through the cooler.
The Turn One pump is a stock F body pump, internally modified so that this doesn't occur.
The next issue is that both the stock and modified (ala Turn One) pumps put out too much pressure resulting in an over assisted feel. This excess pressure eventually, when used on the race track, will result in a blown power steering rack seal.
Perhaps Turn One could make one with a lower pressure of you could use one of those adjustable in-line bypass devices allowing you to lower the pressure, however that would result in a lot more hydraulic plumbing.
The best solution is to dump all of that and go to an electric pump. The Toyota MR2 Spyder pump is the one to use. It's like $450 new and has a much better steering feel and won't overstress the power steering rack seals.
TonyG
And no amount of cooler will fix the problem since it's occurring in the bypass circuit and not going to the rack, and thus not going through the cooler.
The Turn One pump is a stock F body pump, internally modified so that this doesn't occur.
The next issue is that both the stock and modified (ala Turn One) pumps put out too much pressure resulting in an over assisted feel. This excess pressure eventually, when used on the race track, will result in a blown power steering rack seal.
Perhaps Turn One could make one with a lower pressure of you could use one of those adjustable in-line bypass devices allowing you to lower the pressure, however that would result in a lot more hydraulic plumbing.
The best solution is to dump all of that and go to an electric pump. The Toyota MR2 Spyder pump is the one to use. It's like $450 new and has a much better steering feel and won't overstress the power steering rack seals.
TonyG
09-10-2014, 04:50 PM
#1086
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Well, went through another little hiccup. Shop got the motor back together after clearancing the windage tray and in the car. Then went to hand crank the engine to build oil pressure, only to discover it wasn't creating oil pressure.
I contacted the engine builder, who immediately (and correctly) diagnosed the issue. Turns out the O ring on the oil pick up had somehow gotten displaced.
So that's taken care of now and I'm happy to say the motor is building oil pressure and does run.
Bad news is now I have to wait for an open slot on the dyno for the car to get tuned and complicating matters is the tuners wife is uber preggo right now.
Hopefully get the car back in a week or so, so I can get the requisite 500 miles on the motor and shake it out before my last (!!) track weekend of the season Oct 10-11.
I contacted the engine builder, who immediately (and correctly) diagnosed the issue. Turns out the O ring on the oil pick up had somehow gotten displaced.
So that's taken care of now and I'm happy to say the motor is building oil pressure and does run.
Bad news is now I have to wait for an open slot on the dyno for the car to get tuned and complicating matters is the tuners wife is uber preggo right now.
Hopefully get the car back in a week or so, so I can get the requisite 500 miles on the motor and shake it out before my last (!!) track weekend of the season Oct 10-11.
09-10-2014, 08:35 PM
#1089
Rennlist Junkie Forever
Its the Toyota MR2 SW20 pump, and I just burnt one out that I bought used. Since its running all the time when stationary and doesnt have a steering angle input, I think it was too much for the old girl. So would agree with you to buy a new pump, all good on the track as you use the PWM output to stop the use at high speeds.
It's not the steering wheel angle sensor you need to address the issue... it's the VSS square wave signal that you would input to control the pump speed so that it slows down the faster you go.
Nevertheless, running the pump at full speed constantly is not that big a deal since it's not at full load constantly (big difference) and thus is not drawing full current constantly.
The 911 Cup guys use these as replacement for the expensive Porsche pumps with zero issues for years on end without failure.
TonyG
09-11-2014, 02:50 AM
#1090
Rennlist Member
Hopefully get the car back in a week or so, so I can get the requisite 500 miles on the motor and shake it out before my last (!!) track weekend of the season Oct 10-11.[/QUOTE]
Doc, I feel your pain. It seems I've been ironing out bugs all season as I've only been out twice with the LS and have yet to complete a full day.
Our season is ending soon also in the NW
Doc, I feel your pain. It seems I've been ironing out bugs all season as I've only been out twice with the LS and have yet to complete a full day.
Our season is ending soon also in the NW
09-11-2014, 04:55 AM
#1091
Nordschleife Master
I have just over 2k miles on my swap and ive finally ironed out enough of the bugs that i feel confident in doing a track day now! Its survived two autocrosses earlier this year; so i am feeling good about it.
Ill be attending the first two track days (double header event) in nearly 4 years with this car the first week of October, likely the only events i will get in this year also! The season in the North East is basically done come November aswell.
As much as everyone totes the reliability of the LS1, there are still plenty of bugs to work out with a project of this scope.
Ill be attending the first two track days (double header event) in nearly 4 years with this car the first week of October, likely the only events i will get in this year also! The season in the North East is basically done come November aswell.
As much as everyone totes the reliability of the LS1, there are still plenty of bugs to work out with a project of this scope.
09-11-2014, 08:13 AM
#1092
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
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ok,
short of hacking out a new thread, can you all offer insight into any possible/likely/as sure as the sun rises tomorrow issues that i should be especially vigilent about?
leaks and other stuff that comes to mind....
1. fuel line develops leak leading to fire/death
2. oil line develops leak leading to engine failure/fire/death
3. will a moderate sized oil cooler/duel core radiator combo be adequate in a summer traffic jam on the I-95 in the Bronx?
4. feeling the heat/exacerbating the already extremely sensitive LS7 siamese bore design.
5. ps/bump steer issues.
6. hydroboost issues.
7. some kind of ignition issue/short in the wires.
8. down the road, AC sucks/fails.
short of hacking out a new thread, can you all offer insight into any possible/likely/as sure as the sun rises tomorrow issues that i should be especially vigilent about?
leaks and other stuff that comes to mind....
1. fuel line develops leak leading to fire/death
2. oil line develops leak leading to engine failure/fire/death
3. will a moderate sized oil cooler/duel core radiator combo be adequate in a summer traffic jam on the I-95 in the Bronx?
4. feeling the heat/exacerbating the already extremely sensitive LS7 siamese bore design.
5. ps/bump steer issues.
6. hydroboost issues.
7. some kind of ignition issue/short in the wires.
8. down the road, AC sucks/fails.
09-11-2014, 10:33 AM
#1093
Rennlist Junkie Forever
ok,
short of hacking out a new thread, can you all offer insight into any possible/likely/as sure as the sun rises tomorrow issues that i should be especially vigilent about?
leaks and other stuff that comes to mind....
1. fuel line develops leak leading to fire/death
2. oil line develops leak leading to engine failure/fire/death
3. will a moderate sized oil cooler/duel core radiator combo be adequate in a summer traffic jam on the I-95 in the Bronx?
4. feeling the heat/exacerbating the already extremely sensitive LS7 siamese bore design.
5. ps/bump steer issues.
6. hydroboost issues.
7. some kind of ignition issue/short in the wires.
8. down the road, AC sucks/fails.
short of hacking out a new thread, can you all offer insight into any possible/likely/as sure as the sun rises tomorrow issues that i should be especially vigilent about?
leaks and other stuff that comes to mind....
1. fuel line develops leak leading to fire/death
2. oil line develops leak leading to engine failure/fire/death
3. will a moderate sized oil cooler/duel core radiator combo be adequate in a summer traffic jam on the I-95 in the Bronx?
4. feeling the heat/exacerbating the already extremely sensitive LS7 siamese bore design.
5. ps/bump steer issues.
6. hydroboost issues.
7. some kind of ignition issue/short in the wires.
8. down the road, AC sucks/fails.
Start a new thread as there's plenty to say on all of these issues.
TonyG
09-11-2014, 03:33 PM
#1094
Tried to space the windage tray out, it's a no go, it hits the oil pan. Will cut some small windows in the windage tray instead.
Guess I've been lucky, I haven't had any issues with the Turn 1 pump in my car regarding the power steering rack. Now that you've said that I'm sure it'll be the next failure I have.
Guess I've been lucky, I haven't had any issues with the Turn 1 pump in my car regarding the power steering rack. Now that you've said that I'm sure it'll be the next failure I have.
09-11-2014, 03:50 PM
#1095
Rennlist Junkie Forever
The hydroboost has a reservoir that the assist operates from. And it doesn't hold very much fluid. Once it's charged, it's bypassing any fluid sent to it.
My steering always felt over boosted with the hydroboost. I even went to the extent of installing an adjustable bypass pressure regulator to drop the pressure to the steering rack.
In the end... by far the best solution is the last generation Toyota MR2 Spyder electric power steering pump as it's got the correct pressure for the rack to begin with.
TonyG