Ebay Headers: I am the guinea pig
08-10-2010, 09:08 PM
#31
Burning Brakes
I'm going with Turbo Tim on this issue, but not for all his reasons. Quality is job one, [how did Ford come up with that?] heck, its going on a German car so the 'Patriot Act' is out. Material and design are in, though they all leave HP on the table, gotta go with the flow! You only put your money down once for quality. For the price point of quality, [I understand the cost aspect of a 25,000 potential customer base,2500 more likely, doubt if its 100 in reality] so dont mind the point as long as I get the good stuff, I still want more though... like self-tuning Bi-metal construction, [heat is rpm dependant] and fully tapered/merged joints, no flat spots/voids. I'd even run 'Turkey Feathers' on my exhaust tip if someone would do it right, to hell with form/****/flash. Function is its own reward.
08-10-2010, 09:24 PM
#32
A word on SFR. I had an issue where I cracked my header on th e #4 runner right after the flange. I asked Turbo Tim if he could repair it if I shipped it out to him. I got it back a week later and he never even gave me a bill. So customer service is a huge value with SFR. I doubt you could send it back to the ebay vendor and have them fix it.
BTW: The header cracked because I had the lower BS in 180 out. It also caused half of my oil pan bolts to back completely out. Rookie mistake.
BTW: The header cracked because I had the lower BS in 180 out. It also caused half of my oil pan bolts to back completely out. Rookie mistake.
08-10-2010, 11:26 PM
#33
A word on SFR. I had an issue where I cracked my header on th e #4 runner right after the flange. I asked Turbo Tim if he could repair it if I shipped it out to him. I got it back a week later and he never even gave me a bill. So customer service is a huge value with SFR. I doubt you could send it back to the ebay vendor and have them fix it.
BTW: The header cracked because I had the lower BS in 180 out. It also caused half of my oil pan bolts to back completely out. Rookie mistake.
BTW: The header cracked because I had the lower BS in 180 out. It also caused half of my oil pan bolts to back completely out. Rookie mistake.
08-10-2010, 11:43 PM
#34
LOL.Far from it my friend!
We use 1/2" thick flanges.Theirs are 3/8"
We weld the outside and inside of each flange.They do not!
We back purge our stainless-they do not you can see the sugar where the two pipes meet inside the collector.
We use a high grade 304 or 321SS stainless not some substandard 304SS from China with a bunch of impurities.They dont even offer 321SS
We use a real merge collector that helps increase velocity and increases horsepower and torque.They use a cheapy weld on collector that will more then likely rob you of power.
The downpipe does not use factory crush ring.Ours does.
There downpipe is only 2.5".Ours is 3"
They have a slip fit in the downpipe with the slip in the wrong direction which will cause turbulence.Ours does not.
So there are some big differences.And then people really need to consider this...........
We are supporting our American economy.They are not.The Chinese are just stealing money from Americans by selling cheap crap and incredible cheap prices. American companies cannot compete. From electronics to car parts. And American people are wondering why everyone is losing their jobs, their homes and everything else these days!!!!!! Open your eyes!!!!
I am so sick of seeing Chinese crap. 99.9% of it is junk. I can tell you right now that these are junk and they wont last too long. Even on a street car. OBX is one of the better Chinese brands but I have seen way too many failures from Hondas to Supras to WRX's using OBX headers.
If you guys want, we can do a lower cost header and make it with collectors we build ourself.It can lower the price a couple hundred bucks! Just a thought.I would rather keep my employees families fed, our suppliers families fed and so forth and so on then give more money to the Chinese so they can keep running their sweat shops and slave trades!
We use 1/2" thick flanges.Theirs are 3/8"
We weld the outside and inside of each flange.They do not!
We back purge our stainless-they do not you can see the sugar where the two pipes meet inside the collector.
We use a high grade 304 or 321SS stainless not some substandard 304SS from China with a bunch of impurities.They dont even offer 321SS
We use a real merge collector that helps increase velocity and increases horsepower and torque.They use a cheapy weld on collector that will more then likely rob you of power.
The downpipe does not use factory crush ring.Ours does.
There downpipe is only 2.5".Ours is 3"
They have a slip fit in the downpipe with the slip in the wrong direction which will cause turbulence.Ours does not.
So there are some big differences.And then people really need to consider this...........
We are supporting our American economy.They are not.The Chinese are just stealing money from Americans by selling cheap crap and incredible cheap prices. American companies cannot compete. From electronics to car parts. And American people are wondering why everyone is losing their jobs, their homes and everything else these days!!!!!! Open your eyes!!!!
I am so sick of seeing Chinese crap. 99.9% of it is junk. I can tell you right now that these are junk and they wont last too long. Even on a street car. OBX is one of the better Chinese brands but I have seen way too many failures from Hondas to Supras to WRX's using OBX headers.
If you guys want, we can do a lower cost header and make it with collectors we build ourself.It can lower the price a couple hundred bucks! Just a thought.I would rather keep my employees families fed, our suppliers families fed and so forth and so on then give more money to the Chinese so they can keep running their sweat shops and slave trades!
Last edited by Darwantae951; 08-11-2010 at 08:36 AM.
08-11-2010, 02:13 AM
#35
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I have to agree with SFR Tim. The quality evident from the pics is quite poor. I also would rather buy American for more, particularly if the quality is superior. But here's the rub - as the resale value of 944's, and other used sports cars decrease, will the market continue to bear the high cost of some of these after-market parts? A middle tier of products could find a good market niche.
It's true you can buy a good performing, relatively late model used sports for just a little more than a new turbo, MAF, exhaust system, and engine rebuild, and it kinda makes you think. But since I'm in love with 951's for sentimental reasons, arithmetic doesn't always apply.
86- 951
87- 951
It's true you can buy a good performing, relatively late model used sports for just a little more than a new turbo, MAF, exhaust system, and engine rebuild, and it kinda makes you think. But since I'm in love with 951's for sentimental reasons, arithmetic doesn't always apply.
86- 951
87- 951
08-11-2010, 03:18 AM
#36
Three Wheelin'
Bought OBX for my 930 and had no issues. Fitment was ok and they a very real improvement in performance. Try them, you really don't have anything to lose as you have them now.
08-11-2010, 04:08 AM
#37
Burning Brakes
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Turbo Tim +1,000,000 to the fourth power.
When my exhaust manifold cracks Ill be giving you a buzz! Ordered a bunch of parts from Dave. Us 951 guys are spoiled with some quality aftermarket carriers!
When my exhaust manifold cracks Ill be giving you a buzz! Ordered a bunch of parts from Dave. Us 951 guys are spoiled with some quality aftermarket carriers!
08-11-2010, 04:23 AM
#38
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LOL.Far from it my friend!
We use 1/2" thick flanges.Theirs are 3/8"
We weld the outside and inside of each flange.They do not!
We back purge our stainless-they do not you can see the sugar where the two pipes meet inside the collector.
We use a high grade 304 or 321SS stainless not some substandard 304SS from China with a bunch of impurities.They dont even offer 321SS
We use a real merge collector that helps increase velocity and increases horsepower and torque.They use a cheapy weld on collector that will more then likely rob you of power.
The downpipe does not use factory crush ring.Ours does.
There downpipe is only 2.5".Ours is 3"
They have a slip fit in the downpipe with the slip in the wrong direction which will cause turbulence.Ours does not.
So there are some big differences.And then people really need to consider this...........
We are supporting our American economy.They are not.The Chinese are just stealing money from Americans by selling cheap crap and incredible cheap prices. American companies cannot compete. From electronics to car parts. And American people are wondering why everyone is losing their jobs, their homes and everything else these days!!!!!! Open your eyes!!!!
I am so sick of seeing Chinese crap. 99.9% of it is junk. I can tell you right now that these are junk and they wont last too long. Even on a street car. OBX is one of the better Chinese brands but I have seen way too many failures from Hondas to Supras to WRX's using OBX headers.
If you guys want, we can do a lower cost header and make it with collectors we build ourself.It can lower the price a couple hundred bucks! Just a thought.I would rather keep my employees families fed, our suppliers families fed and so forth and so on then give more money to the Chinese so they can keep running their sweat shops and slave trades!
We use 1/2" thick flanges.Theirs are 3/8"
We weld the outside and inside of each flange.They do not!
We back purge our stainless-they do not you can see the sugar where the two pipes meet inside the collector.
We use a high grade 304 or 321SS stainless not some substandard 304SS from China with a bunch of impurities.They dont even offer 321SS
We use a real merge collector that helps increase velocity and increases horsepower and torque.They use a cheapy weld on collector that will more then likely rob you of power.
The downpipe does not use factory crush ring.Ours does.
There downpipe is only 2.5".Ours is 3"
They have a slip fit in the downpipe with the slip in the wrong direction which will cause turbulence.Ours does not.
So there are some big differences.And then people really need to consider this...........
We are supporting our American economy.They are not.The Chinese are just stealing money from Americans by selling cheap crap and incredible cheap prices. American companies cannot compete. From electronics to car parts. And American people are wondering why everyone is losing their jobs, their homes and everything else these days!!!!!! Open your eyes!!!!
I am so sick of seeing Chinese crap. 99.9% of it is junk. I can tell you right now that these are junk and they wont last too long. Even on a street car. OBX is one of the better Chinese brands but I have seen way too many failures from Hondas to Supras to WRX's using OBX headers.
If you guys want, we can do a lower cost header and make it with collectors we build ourself.It can lower the price a couple hundred bucks! Just a thought.I would rather keep my employees families fed, our suppliers families fed and so forth and so on then give more money to the Chinese so they can keep running their sweat shops and slave trades!
08-11-2010, 08:39 AM
#39
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08-11-2010, 10:21 AM
#41
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[QUOTE=DDP;7805587]No you don't. Those one piece flanges have a higher tendency to warp over time. Good luck getting that to seal.
We like the one piece flange. Many of the factory headers crack when you try to spread the flanges back apart to get them back on your studs. I had to use
a porta-power once to spread them back apart. Usually they will go on, because the flange holes are slotted, but they have shifted enough, the ports are no longer aligned but have overlap causing flow disturbances. This won't
happen with a one piece flange. If you wan't to turn our one piece flange into a four piece, the flange webbing is intentionally made narrow between the ports to allow a simple cut to seperate. We don't recommend it, but it's an option.
DDP, what evidence do you have that a one piece flange is a problem?
5 years and counting, we haven't had anyone call with a crack, warp or any other complaint.
We like the one piece flange. Many of the factory headers crack when you try to spread the flanges back apart to get them back on your studs. I had to use
a porta-power once to spread them back apart. Usually they will go on, because the flange holes are slotted, but they have shifted enough, the ports are no longer aligned but have overlap causing flow disturbances. This won't
happen with a one piece flange. If you wan't to turn our one piece flange into a four piece, the flange webbing is intentionally made narrow between the ports to allow a simple cut to seperate. We don't recommend it, but it's an option.
DDP, what evidence do you have that a one piece flange is a problem?
5 years and counting, we haven't had anyone call with a crack, warp or any other complaint.
__________________
Mike or Dave Lindsey
www.lindseyracing.com
U.S. 1-877-943-3565
Other 1-405-947-0137
Mike or Dave Lindsey
www.lindseyracing.com
U.S. 1-877-943-3565
Other 1-405-947-0137
08-11-2010, 11:12 AM
#42
Nordschleife Master
Hence my origional reply of "I do not wish for this thread to get dragged off to the abyss by turning it into a debate of one vendor over another"
The OBX solution is interesting, I believe there is better solutions available, for more money, and that seems to be true with MOST if not all things available for our cars... You DO NOT always get what you pay for, but you WILL always pay for what you get... either in $$ or frustration... and some times both.
As intriguing as the "my vendor can beat up your vendor" arguments are, they do become tiring.
As for the OBX headers...
China and Japan have generated their OWN specifications for "equivalent" to SAE standards and are not permitted to be used in MOST U.S. government procurements for a reason. Funny enough the alternative material standards use the SAME numbering as the SAE standards, but have MUCH broader allowances for composition...
These might have no problems over time, but I would be interested to see 1) how much corrosion forms on them over time and 2) how they handle the 1400 degrees easily reached on hard boost... many motors egts are HIGHER than 1400... time will tell, and I am sure we will all be watching..
The OBX solution is interesting, I believe there is better solutions available, for more money, and that seems to be true with MOST if not all things available for our cars... You DO NOT always get what you pay for, but you WILL always pay for what you get... either in $$ or frustration... and some times both.
As intriguing as the "my vendor can beat up your vendor" arguments are, they do become tiring.
As for the OBX headers...
China and Japan have generated their OWN specifications for "equivalent" to SAE standards and are not permitted to be used in MOST U.S. government procurements for a reason. Funny enough the alternative material standards use the SAME numbering as the SAE standards, but have MUCH broader allowances for composition...
These might have no problems over time, but I would be interested to see 1) how much corrosion forms on them over time and 2) how they handle the 1400 degrees easily reached on hard boost... many motors egts are HIGHER than 1400... time will tell, and I am sure we will all be watching..
08-11-2010, 11:20 AM
#43
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I'm sorry, I was not trying to start a vendor war as you speak of, I was merely stating my .02 on liking the Lindsey style as they were the only reference that I know of using a one piece design.
08-11-2010, 11:27 AM
#44
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I agree with ehall. I own a 951, but I shouldn't be considered in the potential market for well made, top quality headers. When my headers fail, my personal choice will be repair, used OEM, or cheap chinese. Faced with any solution over $750, I'll sell the car. I really enjoy reading the mega-build threads with all the latest bits being installed, but I'm just not that devoted.
