New Aluminum Radiator / Oil Cooler
01-07-2011, 09:38 PM
#46
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Chris,
I do not track my car but wondered if this would be overkill for a normal road going 968? I only ask because here in Arizona during the summer our temps get to 115+. Any extra cooling benefits are a plus. Awesome looking, just amazing!
I do not track my car but wondered if this would be overkill for a normal road going 968? I only ask because here in Arizona during the summer our temps get to 115+. Any extra cooling benefits are a plus. Awesome looking, just amazing!
01-08-2011, 05:43 AM
#47
I think the oil coolers looks a little small. Looks similar to the stock one on euro spec e36 M3 which is commonly know to be to small for that car, and it does not even have a turbo. Maybe the picture is giving the wrong impression? Overall the radiator look excellent and having a aluminum radiator for a track car is a great investment in your engines health.
Building my car on a tight budget and living in a colder part of the world I believe this would to the trick
W:405mm H:146mm D:50mm and 19 rows.
Connected to the bottom of the radiator with these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TRANS...Q5fAccessories
Living in the cold north gotta have some benefits
Building my car on a tight budget and living in a colder part of the world I believe this would to the trick
W:405mm H:146mm D:50mm and 19 rows.
Connected to the bottom of the radiator with these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TRANS...Q5fAccessories
Living in the cold north gotta have some benefits
01-08-2011, 08:35 AM
#48
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I worked with the fabricator (Wizard Cooling) to get the design right (size, layout, and fitment) . We made quite a few changes to get it right. After some prototypes we got it right and its now being made with laser cut parts for the end tanks.
I could have paid a significant fee to be the sole distributor of the final product. Maybe I would have made a couple of extra bucks in the long run – but I would have had to change a bunch more (at least $100) for each radiator. I hate to make stuff more expensive when the only reason would be for me to make more $ (yeah, I know that sounds ‘unamerican’ but that’s just me). So you can get the radiator from a number of sources. I doubt that any are cheaper and I know that none of them have the most current version in stock (the pictures posted earlier are of the latest modification!). The picture on the Lindsey site is the old design, you can’t fit stock fans with that layout.
01-08-2011, 08:46 AM
#49
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As I have always said - the stock radiator, as long as it is in good condition, will support your cooling needs for most applications. Most stock radiators are now quite old and nicely coated with ‘stuff’ from years of service and whatever the previous owner poured in to the cooling system! I have also said that the stock oil cooler is woefully inadequate – even for stock engines!
The problem with the additional oil coolers is that it is very difficult to find a place to mount one that has good air flow. Good air flow is the key to good cooling! If you are still running the AC condenser then adding an oil cooler in front is stacking up three air to liquid heat exchangers in a row….not optimal! The side mounted oil coolers do not get very good air flow unless you are hacking large holes in your front bumper cover. The combo rad/oil cooler is a convenient way to add more oil and water cooling. The oil cooler is in the air flow and will do a fine job cooling the oil.
BTW – the cooler mounts that Ksira linked to are a great way to ruin your cooler and radiator. Might as well just get some long sheet metal screws and randomly screw through the cooler….
01-08-2011, 08:52 AM
#50
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My turbo 968 has the rad/oil combo…but that’s a little different beast!
01-08-2011, 08:59 AM
#51
I’ll let the confusing grammar slide on this one(!)…I believe I understand you comment!
As I have always said - the stock radiator, as long as it is in good condition, will support your cooling needs for most applications. Most stock radiators are now quite old and nicely coated with ‘stuff’ from years of service and whatever the previous owner poured in to the cooling system! I have also said that the stock oil cooler is woefully inadequate – even for stock engines!
The problem with the additional oil coolers is that it is very difficult to find a place to mount one that has good air flow. Good air flow is the key to good cooling! If you are still running the AC condenser then adding an oil cooler in front is stacking up three air to liquid heat exchangers in a row….not optimal! The side mounted oil coolers do not get very good air flow unless you are hacking large holes in your front bumper cover. The combo rad/oil cooler is a convenient way to add more oil and water cooling. The oil cooler is in the air flow and will do a fine job cooling the oil.
BTW – the cooler mounts that Ksira linked to are a great way to ruin your cooler and radiator. Might as well just get some long sheet metal screws and randomly screw through the cooler….
As I have always said - the stock radiator, as long as it is in good condition, will support your cooling needs for most applications. Most stock radiators are now quite old and nicely coated with ‘stuff’ from years of service and whatever the previous owner poured in to the cooling system! I have also said that the stock oil cooler is woefully inadequate – even for stock engines!
The problem with the additional oil coolers is that it is very difficult to find a place to mount one that has good air flow. Good air flow is the key to good cooling! If you are still running the AC condenser then adding an oil cooler in front is stacking up three air to liquid heat exchangers in a row….not optimal! The side mounted oil coolers do not get very good air flow unless you are hacking large holes in your front bumper cover. The combo rad/oil cooler is a convenient way to add more oil and water cooling. The oil cooler is in the air flow and will do a fine job cooling the oil.
BTW – the cooler mounts that Ksira linked to are a great way to ruin your cooler and radiator. Might as well just get some long sheet metal screws and randomly screw through the cooler….
01-08-2011, 09:22 AM
#52
Chris,
The A/C condenser is long gone.
I run a front mount intercooler (incase you didn't see my signature), which means the oil cooler in this set up won't be exposed as well as the stock oil cooler already is.
I don't see how the oil cooler in your set up will benefit from better flow since it's further back into the bumper than the stock vertical cooler which is further up front - since I installed the front mount intercooler I noticed that coolant temp rises more quickly than before, when driving below a certain speed. Should it be any different with an oil cooler, I don't think so.
Anyway, do you have hard datas showing this set up offers better cooling than some other, especially the stock set up?
The A/C condenser is long gone.
I run a front mount intercooler (incase you didn't see my signature), which means the oil cooler in this set up won't be exposed as well as the stock oil cooler already is.
I don't see how the oil cooler in your set up will benefit from better flow since it's further back into the bumper than the stock vertical cooler which is further up front - since I installed the front mount intercooler I noticed that coolant temp rises more quickly than before, when driving below a certain speed. Should it be any different with an oil cooler, I don't think so.
Anyway, do you have hard datas showing this set up offers better cooling than some other, especially the stock set up?
01-09-2011, 10:21 AM
#54
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OK, I think we went through this before last year when I first posted about this radiator. Here are a couple of basics –
• As long as the air flow is good (!) the size of a cooler is mostly about the volume not the frontal area. The oil cooler in the rad/oil cooler combo has a lot of volume, much more than stock.
• The air flow to the oil cooler in the rad/oil cooler combo is a lot better than the stock oil cooler and any of the cooler add ons that keep the stock fascia intact. If you are putting more stuff in front of the radiator I can’t predict what will happen, if it really blocks air flow then you are going to have cooling problems anyway.
• Air flow to a cooler (oil or radiator) has nothing to do with the depth or distance from the front of the fascia. It has to do with the ducting. There is a lot of aerodynamics involved with proper ducting – most people get it wrong. You cannot ‘force’ air though and opening (ram air only starts working near supersonic speeds), you need to ‘encourage’ it to flow to where you want it.
• At really low speeds that rad/oil cooler combo work well because the stock fan shroud will draw air through the oil cooler – that does not happen at all with the stock or other add on coolers.
• My “hard data” shows that the radiator works fine with the particular engine combo I have used it on. I am not sure what people want with ‘hard data’ – technically it only applies to this engine, its mods and engine management, the ducting and the track conditions when tested. If you think your engine set up is running in such a way that it is making excessive oil temps you can always include the stock oil cooler in series with this set up.
• And finally – using any radiator fins and tubes as a mounting method for an add on cooler is just plain dumb. You are basically zip tying together two pieces of very thin aluminum. In a performance vehicle the vibrations (stiffer suspension and hard use) will eventually make the parts fail – and that’s not pretty. Its your car, if you are happy with it then go ahead. If you were to bring it here for a track event tech inspection it will fail – it’s a danger to you and anybody driving near you on the track.
Thats all I got....
• As long as the air flow is good (!) the size of a cooler is mostly about the volume not the frontal area. The oil cooler in the rad/oil cooler combo has a lot of volume, much more than stock.
• The air flow to the oil cooler in the rad/oil cooler combo is a lot better than the stock oil cooler and any of the cooler add ons that keep the stock fascia intact. If you are putting more stuff in front of the radiator I can’t predict what will happen, if it really blocks air flow then you are going to have cooling problems anyway.
• Air flow to a cooler (oil or radiator) has nothing to do with the depth or distance from the front of the fascia. It has to do with the ducting. There is a lot of aerodynamics involved with proper ducting – most people get it wrong. You cannot ‘force’ air though and opening (ram air only starts working near supersonic speeds), you need to ‘encourage’ it to flow to where you want it.
• At really low speeds that rad/oil cooler combo work well because the stock fan shroud will draw air through the oil cooler – that does not happen at all with the stock or other add on coolers.
• My “hard data” shows that the radiator works fine with the particular engine combo I have used it on. I am not sure what people want with ‘hard data’ – technically it only applies to this engine, its mods and engine management, the ducting and the track conditions when tested. If you think your engine set up is running in such a way that it is making excessive oil temps you can always include the stock oil cooler in series with this set up.
• And finally – using any radiator fins and tubes as a mounting method for an add on cooler is just plain dumb. You are basically zip tying together two pieces of very thin aluminum. In a performance vehicle the vibrations (stiffer suspension and hard use) will eventually make the parts fail – and that’s not pretty. Its your car, if you are happy with it then go ahead. If you were to bring it here for a track event tech inspection it will fail – it’s a danger to you and anybody driving near you on the track.
Thats all I got....
01-09-2011, 11:29 AM
#55
Perhaps it was overkill for my application, but the radiator is a quality piece of work. I also bought it with Chris' lines, and just the relocation of the oil cooler really makes things quite a bit nicer down there. Thanks Chris for getting these things to fit better!
01-10-2011, 10:17 AM
#59
Nordschleife Master
OK, I think we went through this before last year when I first posted about this radiator. Here are a couple of basics –
• As long as the air flow is good (!) the size of a cooler is mostly about the volume not the frontal area. The oil cooler in the rad/oil cooler combo has a lot of volume, much more than stock.
• The air flow to the oil cooler in the rad/oil cooler combo is a lot better than the stock oil cooler and any of the cooler add ons that keep the stock fascia intact. If you are putting more stuff in front of the radiator I can’t predict what will happen, if it really blocks air flow then you are going to have cooling problems anyway.
• Air flow to a cooler (oil or radiator) has nothing to do with the depth or distance from the front of the fascia. It has to do with the ducting. There is a lot of aerodynamics involved with proper ducting – most people get it wrong. You cannot ‘force’ air though and opening (ram air only starts working near supersonic speeds), you need to ‘encourage’ it to flow to where you want it.
• At really low speeds that rad/oil cooler combo work well because the stock fan shroud will draw air through the oil cooler – that does not happen at all with the stock or other add on coolers.
• My “hard data” shows that the radiator works fine with the particular engine combo I have used it on. I am not sure what people want with ‘hard data’ – technically it only applies to this engine, its mods and engine management, the ducting and the track conditions when tested. If you think your engine set up is running in such a way that it is making excessive oil temps you can always include the stock oil cooler in series with this set up.
• And finally – using any radiator fins and tubes as a mounting method for an add on cooler is just plain dumb. You are basically zip tying together two pieces of very thin aluminum. In a performance vehicle the vibrations (stiffer suspension and hard use) will eventually make the parts fail – and that’s not pretty. Its your car, if you are happy with it then go ahead. If you were to bring it here for a track event tech inspection it will fail – it’s a danger to you and anybody driving near you on the track.
Thats all I got....
• As long as the air flow is good (!) the size of a cooler is mostly about the volume not the frontal area. The oil cooler in the rad/oil cooler combo has a lot of volume, much more than stock.
• The air flow to the oil cooler in the rad/oil cooler combo is a lot better than the stock oil cooler and any of the cooler add ons that keep the stock fascia intact. If you are putting more stuff in front of the radiator I can’t predict what will happen, if it really blocks air flow then you are going to have cooling problems anyway.
• Air flow to a cooler (oil or radiator) has nothing to do with the depth or distance from the front of the fascia. It has to do with the ducting. There is a lot of aerodynamics involved with proper ducting – most people get it wrong. You cannot ‘force’ air though and opening (ram air only starts working near supersonic speeds), you need to ‘encourage’ it to flow to where you want it.
• At really low speeds that rad/oil cooler combo work well because the stock fan shroud will draw air through the oil cooler – that does not happen at all with the stock or other add on coolers.
• My “hard data” shows that the radiator works fine with the particular engine combo I have used it on. I am not sure what people want with ‘hard data’ – technically it only applies to this engine, its mods and engine management, the ducting and the track conditions when tested. If you think your engine set up is running in such a way that it is making excessive oil temps you can always include the stock oil cooler in series with this set up.
• And finally – using any radiator fins and tubes as a mounting method for an add on cooler is just plain dumb. You are basically zip tying together two pieces of very thin aluminum. In a performance vehicle the vibrations (stiffer suspension and hard use) will eventually make the parts fail – and that’s not pretty. Its your car, if you are happy with it then go ahead. If you were to bring it here for a track event tech inspection it will fail – it’s a danger to you and anybody driving near you on the track.
Thats all I got....
And there ya go all trying to make sense and what not.. just tell em it will give them 50HP corrected and life will be good! but you might end up spending all your time dealing with Radiators and not getting much else done!
What he said! CWs radiator fits in the stock location, using the stock mounts...
01-10-2011, 10:30 AM
#60
Any group buy discounts? I see wizard selling the radiator for 999 on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RADIA...item2eb037ab06
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RADIA...item2eb037ab06