New Aluminum Radiator / Oil Cooler
01-25-2010, 05:46 PM
#17
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It definitely simplifies things, I like it. What about clearance? How tight will it be in the engine bay (pulley area), Chris? If it is thicker, like you say, and it needs that large of AN line (necessary size), then the large 90 degree AN fitting will stick out quite a bit. Do you have any pictures of it mounted in a 944 with the lines hooked up (on the engine bay size)?
01-25-2010, 05:54 PM
#19
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Also, what did you do about the fans? There are obviously no accommodations here for the fans. With the need for an additional fan setup plus the AN lines and fittings, this will be over 1500+.
01-25-2010, 06:02 PM
#20
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^ why would an oil cooler need a fan for track use when an average of 70mph air will be feeding though it?
This is a very nice light weight, compact solution - the only thing I would question is possible heat exchange from the rad to the oil cooler but I'm sure Chris has all that figured out and it looks like there is a good 2cm between bridged oil/water chambers where the veins are.
P.S. Chris you spelt your email address wrong in your first post
This is a very nice light weight, compact solution - the only thing I would question is possible heat exchange from the rad to the oil cooler but I'm sure Chris has all that figured out and it looks like there is a good 2cm between bridged oil/water chambers where the veins are.
P.S. Chris you spelt your email address wrong in your first post
01-25-2010, 06:08 PM
#21
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Aluminum cranks...plastic cracks....they all crack if not fabricated / installed and maintained correctly!
A temp in / out number is irrelevant unless you are making the comparison on a car with the same aero package, at the same ambient temps and humidity and the same track conditions.
I can tell you form a testing stand point that you will not find a better cooling air flow through an oil cooler on a 944 unless you start tube framing the front end. I have installed many oil coolers over the years and the exit path of the air is a big issue. You can put the largest oil cooler in the world in the nose of your car and if you don’t have decent exit ducting you are not going to get the best performance out of it.
If you would like to check out my testing data feel free to stop by and go over it. We can go over wind tunnel testing…cad testing ….which ever you feel like.
If what you have is working then you don’t need this. It’s a simple as that – same goes for most other performance products. If what you have is not satisfying your needs then, as far as water and oil cooling, this will.
and if you really want numbers....the output side of the oil cooler is right about 40 degrees right now...going down to 20 later tonight.
A temp in / out number is irrelevant unless you are making the comparison on a car with the same aero package, at the same ambient temps and humidity and the same track conditions.
I can tell you form a testing stand point that you will not find a better cooling air flow through an oil cooler on a 944 unless you start tube framing the front end. I have installed many oil coolers over the years and the exit path of the air is a big issue. You can put the largest oil cooler in the world in the nose of your car and if you don’t have decent exit ducting you are not going to get the best performance out of it.
If you would like to check out my testing data feel free to stop by and go over it. We can go over wind tunnel testing…cad testing ….which ever you feel like.
If what you have is working then you don’t need this. It’s a simple as that – same goes for most other performance products. If what you have is not satisfying your needs then, as far as water and oil cooling, this will.
and if you really want numbers....the output side of the oil cooler is right about 40 degrees right now...going down to 20 later tonight.
01-25-2010, 06:09 PM
#22
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Don't get me wrong, this is a good solution for someone that wants a compact solution. It maybe a bit costly, but then again you'd have to build a support and bracket setup to mount an aftermarket oil cooler (other then two stock units, of course) which would cost money as well. It would be interesting to add up the cost for both setups to compare.
01-25-2010, 06:25 PM
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^^ Derrek LOL we could alway run a bank of computer cooling fans along the back but seriously though remember that this is actually a very big oil cooler in it's own right so a fan assistance would not be required. regards cost, alloy aftermarket rads are about the same price so really this kills the 2 birds with 1 stone so to speak.
I'd also like to see a nice oil cooler for the Diff.
but seriously though remember that this is actually a very big oil cooler in it's own right so a fan assistance would not be required. regards cost, alloy aftermarket rads are about the same price so really this kills the 2 birds with 1 stone so to speak.I'd also like to see a nice oil cooler for the Diff.
01-25-2010, 07:37 PM
#26
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Chris, does this project any further towards the front of the vehicle.
What I'm getting at, is this able to be used in conjunction with the SFR intercooler setup?
http://www.speedforceracing.com/index.php?productID=739
From the look of it, I would assume they would play nicely together, what are your thoughts?
What I'm getting at, is this able to be used in conjunction with the SFR intercooler setup?
http://www.speedforceracing.com/index.php?productID=739
From the look of it, I would assume they would play nicely together, what are your thoughts?
01-25-2010, 09:42 PM
#27
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Its actually pretty simple…it is only slightly thicker than a stock radiator, approx. ¼” on the tanks / mounting area. The stock fans mount exactly the same as original (you can’t see the mounting holes in the picture because I can either drill them for you or supply short self tappers to mount the fans.
The fans are about ¼” further back – no problem unless you have added something really weird behind the fans! The front of the radiator is located the same as stock – the SFR intercooler will work fine (I am installing one in with this radiator later next month- I have checked the clearance.)
Not sure why you would want a fan for the oil cooler, generally the heat load goes up with engine load…and in most cases speed goes up with engine load too…the Coolant is a little different story since it has to reject quite a bit more heat - it still has to cool a hot engine when you come to a halt after running with a high load. But just to keep everybody happy – if you use the stock fans the shrouding built into the fans will cause air to be sucked through the oil cooler section when they are on.
And now to the Reno Q&A section…
Knowing how the air flows around the car is a good thing to know. It tells me where to put a cooler and more importantly where not to put one.
The stock set up does not cool well enough…most folks know that.
I can tell you where to put the vent to make them work. But ‘if’ you need them is more complex – it depends on splitters, ride height, rake angle, cooling requirements, are you running full under tray, speed of the track and the condition of your cooling system. Most of the solutions I see are wrong…. (to answer more directly, yes, I have the tests)
No.
No kinks, but if you are into kinky stuff I will figure out something for you. The lower hose does have to be modified since the connection point has been moved up to accommodate the oil cooler.
Lets see…AN12 or 16 fittings, get rid of the stock oil cooler (not a ‘free flow’ Design)…oh yeah, there is a design flaw – the pressure drops to zero when you turn the engine off…I can’t seem to fix that.
If it helps you I can tell you that I am using the cooler on the low pressure side of a dry sump system – that is why I make them with an AN16 fitting. I would not dare to use the stock or the KISS cooler on the low pressure side of a drysump system.
The fans are about ¼” further back – no problem unless you have added something really weird behind the fans! The front of the radiator is located the same as stock – the SFR intercooler will work fine (I am installing one in with this radiator later next month- I have checked the clearance.)
Not sure why you would want a fan for the oil cooler, generally the heat load goes up with engine load…and in most cases speed goes up with engine load too…the Coolant is a little different story since it has to reject quite a bit more heat - it still has to cool a hot engine when you come to a halt after running with a high load. But just to keep everybody happy – if you use the stock fans the shrouding built into the fans will cause air to be sucked through the oil cooler section when they are on.
And now to the Reno Q&A section…
The stock set up does not cool well enough…most folks know that.
I can tell you where to put the vent to make them work. But ‘if’ you need them is more complex – it depends on splitters, ride height, rake angle, cooling requirements, are you running full under tray, speed of the track and the condition of your cooling system. Most of the solutions I see are wrong…. (to answer more directly, yes, I have the tests)
No.
Lets see…AN12 or 16 fittings, get rid of the stock oil cooler (not a ‘free flow’ Design)…oh yeah, there is a design flaw – the pressure drops to zero when you turn the engine off…I can’t seem to fix that.
If it helps you I can tell you that I am using the cooler on the low pressure side of a dry sump system – that is why I make them with an AN16 fitting. I would not dare to use the stock or the KISS cooler on the low pressure side of a drysump system.
01-25-2010, 11:31 PM
#29
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Still wondering about the 90 degree AN fitting clearance in front of the p/s pulley. Those 90 degree fittings in that size of AN line are larger then most think...
