Wossener V's J&E ????
#1
Wossener V's J&E ????
Ok mahles' are too much .
pricing is never clear .
it looks like JE are a shade cheaper and i could perhaps jet coated tops for the same price as wosseners ...
I want 16v 104.7mm 9.5:1 (s2 head)
so advice please real price's real experence .
and wieghts alleged expansion rates and recommended clearances
pricing is never clear .
it looks like JE are a shade cheaper and i could perhaps jet coated tops for the same price as wosseners ...
I want 16v 104.7mm 9.5:1 (s2 head)
so advice please real price's real experence .
and wieghts alleged expansion rates and recommended clearances
#2
I suspect you want alusil compatible pistons?
If so, I would only go with Wössners since they have a factory coating for this.
With JE you have to go with some generic 3rd party coating which feels pretty uncomfortable.
If so, I would only go with Wössners since they have a factory coating for this.
With JE you have to go with some generic 3rd party coating which feels pretty uncomfortable.
#3
I have both brands.
I prefer the Wossner as they will build the pistons to my specs, and I trust their coating to work properly with the Alusil block. Price wise, with the coating added both brands are fairly comparable.
I'm using Wossner on both of my 16V engines as well as a 8V. I like the product enough to become a dealer.
I prefer the Wossner as they will build the pistons to my specs, and I trust their coating to work properly with the Alusil block. Price wise, with the coating added both brands are fairly comparable.
I'm using Wossner on both of my 16V engines as well as a 8V. I like the product enough to become a dealer.
#4
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,505
Likes: 37
From: Marietta, NY
I have used both and prefer the Wossners.
You can get the JE’s in different alloys (4032 or 2618) that have different expansion rates. There are many schools of thought on which alloy is more suited to each application.
Wossners are a variety of the 4032 alloy and as such they have tighter wall clearance than the 2618 pistons – which means less piston slap on start up and a more consistent wall clearance.
The main things that I like about Wossner is their willingness to work with me on piston design – they produce engineering drawings for each and every piston I order. Wossner also has an Alusil compatible coating (complete with ‘official’ acceptance of the coating by BWM for their Alusil blocks).
On a less technical issue Wossner is better to deal with when ordering pistons. JE has a policy that you can pay extra (up to 40%) and be put in the head of the production line – that means that my ‘regular’ orders were being delayed to accommodate other orders that paid this extra ‘fee’. As a result JE pistons could take several months to get during the busy season. I just find that concept annoying.
JE is more focused on the domestic market where as Wossner is more interested in European stuff.
In reality both brands will function well, its more about the willingness of the companies to work with me to get the right design for each application.
You can get the JE’s in different alloys (4032 or 2618) that have different expansion rates. There are many schools of thought on which alloy is more suited to each application.
Wossners are a variety of the 4032 alloy and as such they have tighter wall clearance than the 2618 pistons – which means less piston slap on start up and a more consistent wall clearance.
The main things that I like about Wossner is their willingness to work with me on piston design – they produce engineering drawings for each and every piston I order. Wossner also has an Alusil compatible coating (complete with ‘official’ acceptance of the coating by BWM for their Alusil blocks).
On a less technical issue Wossner is better to deal with when ordering pistons. JE has a policy that you can pay extra (up to 40%) and be put in the head of the production line – that means that my ‘regular’ orders were being delayed to accommodate other orders that paid this extra ‘fee’. As a result JE pistons could take several months to get during the busy season. I just find that concept annoying.
JE is more focused on the domestic market where as Wossner is more interested in European stuff.
In reality both brands will function well, its more about the willingness of the companies to work with me to get the right design for each application.
#5
According to Mahle, 4032 Mahle is safe to 18 psi, and above that, they want to build you a 2618. Since
Mahle is pretty reputable and experienced, we feel that's a good decision maker. If your running lower boost, 4032 is fine. Above, use 2618. Wossner doesn't offer 2618. J&E only does 2618 and Mahle does both. Although Mahle doesn't call it 4032 as they have their own in house name for it.
So your boost alone may narrow your decision process quickly. We have used and sold plenty of all three brands and they all have their benefits.
As for coatings, we have had great luck with PC-9 on the J&E's and can say that with confidence having pulled a engine down at 10k just to look at the skirt coatings before we starting selling it. And we have had no bad reports in the 5 years since.
If your ordering Wossner, you better be dam sure you know what you want because you will be providing them "all" the specs. If you spec it wrong, they will build it wrong, and you own it regardless.
Our J&E's are streamlined to about 10 days from order time. Add another week if coated.
We have had all three companies build pistons and have a good working relationship with all three
and know what to do and more important, what not to do. We also stock quite a few piston sets.
Mahle is pretty reputable and experienced, we feel that's a good decision maker. If your running lower boost, 4032 is fine. Above, use 2618. Wossner doesn't offer 2618. J&E only does 2618 and Mahle does both. Although Mahle doesn't call it 4032 as they have their own in house name for it.
So your boost alone may narrow your decision process quickly. We have used and sold plenty of all three brands and they all have their benefits.
As for coatings, we have had great luck with PC-9 on the J&E's and can say that with confidence having pulled a engine down at 10k just to look at the skirt coatings before we starting selling it. And we have had no bad reports in the 5 years since.
If your ordering Wossner, you better be dam sure you know what you want because you will be providing them "all" the specs. If you spec it wrong, they will build it wrong, and you own it regardless.
Our J&E's are streamlined to about 10 days from order time. Add another week if coated.
We have had all three companies build pistons and have a good working relationship with all three
and know what to do and more important, what not to do. We also stock quite a few piston sets.
__________________
Mike or Dave Lindsey
www.lindseyracing.com
U.S. 1-877-943-3565
Other 1-405-947-0137
Mike or Dave Lindsey
www.lindseyracing.com
U.S. 1-877-943-3565
Other 1-405-947-0137
Last edited by Mike Lindsey; 11-11-2009 at 11:15 AM.
#6
I don't understand the Mahle boost level stuff. They only thing important should be the cylinder pressure and not boost pressure. On an inefficient engine 18 psi could result in 75 hp/cylinder. In a highly effecient 3.0l 16v turbo engine 18 psi could net the double. The cylinder pressure however would be very different. So Mahle says it's ok with 4032 on a 550 hp 4cyl engine running 17 psi but not a 300 hp 4 cyl engine running 18.5 psi?
Trending Topics
#10
Marc, you can get just about any size for the 951. As I said, they are custom built to your spec. You get a drawing that you will review and approve prior to moving forward. Pricing should be taken off line.
#11
#13
Duke,
Seems like a fair assumption. My block was Nicom coated at uschrome. I don't have to run alusil, but we coated the pistons anyway for better cooling and hopeful easier movement while running.
Regards,
George
#14
As for the material thing I'm not sold either way as the only people who say 4032 is no up to is mahle perhaps in the interest to sell there other material wich may be 4032 .
both have nice taper bore pins?
it seems If i want a more custom spec with lots of changes the wossener is the way
But JE's for the high duty set up ....
hmmmm
both have nice taper bore pins?
it seems If i want a more custom spec with lots of changes the wossener is the way
But JE's for the high duty set up ....
hmmmm
#15
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,505
Likes: 37
From: Marietta, NY
interesting to note that the stock pistons are a high silicone alloy (like the 2618 alloy). They seem to survive past 18 psi for a lot of the listers...