951 3.0 l 8V engine building questions
09-17-2009, 08:18 AM
#16
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2.5L block (100mm bore) + 3L crank = 2.8L
09-17-2009, 10:07 AM
#18
Nordschleife Master
, please explain...
09-17-2009, 10:11 AM
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09-17-2009, 10:16 AM
#20
Nordschleife Master
would any of them have been 3L 350 HP cars running 1 bar max? seems to me to be LOW boost for such a BIG motor using such a smallish turbo, but again I could be wrong.. The OP seems to have set a goal and decided a route simmilar to deciding to swat flies with a jackhammer... can be done, but seems to be overkill for the end goal...
09-18-2009, 08:50 AM
#22
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Hi again adn thank you so much for your responses!!!
I will explain better my project. My goal is low Hp because the race will do this car has a long duration (about 10 hours per race) and there is 8-10 races per year. I need a very reliable engine to hold at least 2 years without any job. In a few month of a year we have 40ºCelsius degrees and the engine support high temperatures.
The reason I want a small turbo is because with the gears I will use I will get +-200 Km\h max speed at 6500 rpm in 5 th gear. This race here has an average speed around 100 Km\h. And the other hand it look seems very dificult to drive on Rallyes a car with 500 hp and rear drive wheels. In this races we use a lot gearshifts and the most important is not to have turbo lag delay.
I have still some doubts
For the alusil treatment I am willing to send the block to USA if is necesary. Here in Spain about this matter there is nothing (only bulls and parties).
About the oil squirters, Can i use the 993 to fit without modifications or I need to mechanize the block??
Is possible to use the 2.7 cylinderheads studs from factory to fit on 104 mm bore blocks? and has the ceramics lines on exhaust the 2.7 cylinderheads?? I think it would be better this on 2.5 cylinderhead to turbo engines.
About the ECU I will have another original from Porsche Motorsport 944 turbo cup and Porsche made on 90´s a remapping chip that fit on the stocks DME\KLR that modified the ignition and injection maps for race. At this moment I use the other car with this ECU on races at 3 bar fuel pressure and never failure. I think it´s the easiest and cheapiest solution for the management system of the 3.0 l engine.
Thank so much again and regards
I will explain better my project. My goal is low Hp because the race will do this car has a long duration (about 10 hours per race) and there is 8-10 races per year. I need a very reliable engine to hold at least 2 years without any job. In a few month of a year we have 40ºCelsius degrees and the engine support high temperatures.
The reason I want a small turbo is because with the gears I will use I will get +-200 Km\h max speed at 6500 rpm in 5 th gear. This race here has an average speed around 100 Km\h. And the other hand it look seems very dificult to drive on Rallyes a car with 500 hp and rear drive wheels. In this races we use a lot gearshifts and the most important is not to have turbo lag delay.
I have still some doubts
For the alusil treatment I am willing to send the block to USA if is necesary. Here in Spain about this matter there is nothing (only bulls and parties).
About the oil squirters, Can i use the 993 to fit without modifications or I need to mechanize the block??
Is possible to use the 2.7 cylinderheads studs from factory to fit on 104 mm bore blocks? and has the ceramics lines on exhaust the 2.7 cylinderheads?? I think it would be better this on 2.5 cylinderhead to turbo engines.
About the ECU I will have another original from Porsche Motorsport 944 turbo cup and Porsche made on 90´s a remapping chip that fit on the stocks DME\KLR that modified the ignition and injection maps for race. At this moment I use the other car with this ECU on races at 3 bar fuel pressure and never failure. I think it´s the easiest and cheapiest solution for the management system of the 3.0 l engine.
Thank so much again and regards
09-18-2009, 09:46 AM
#23
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dry sleeving your 2.5 block to 104 is starting make more sense.
you can get it done loacally
you save on buying a new block
you save on piston skirt coating
you save modding your head to suit the block or getting the expensive 2.7 head
also don't be fooled by the small turbo sometimes the increased exhuast manifold pressure can translate in to reduced transint performance ..
so the boost guage will be fast but the car wont ..
46mm is not a small waste gate
it would be fine .
you can get it done loacally
you save on buying a new block
you save on piston skirt coating
you save modding your head to suit the block or getting the expensive 2.7 head
also don't be fooled by the small turbo sometimes the increased exhuast manifold pressure can translate in to reduced transint performance ..
so the boost guage will be fast but the car wont ..
46mm is not a small waste gate
it would be fine .
09-18-2009, 09:51 AM
#24
For the alusil treatment I am willing to send the block to USA if is necesary. Here in Spain about this matter there is nothing (only bulls and parties).
About the oil squirters, Can i use the 993 to fit without modifications or I need to mechanize the block??
Is possible to use the 2.7 cylinderheads studs from factory to fit on 104 mm bore blocks? and has the ceramics lines on exhaust the 2.7 cylinderheads?? I think it would be better this on 2.5 cylinderhead to turbo engines.
About the oil squirters, Can i use the 993 to fit without modifications or I need to mechanize the block??
Is possible to use the 2.7 cylinderheads studs from factory to fit on 104 mm bore blocks? and has the ceramics lines on exhaust the 2.7 cylinderheads?? I think it would be better this on 2.5 cylinderhead to turbo engines.
If you use 2.5L or 3.0L 944 block oil squiters must be installed, so there is a need of modification. We have use 968 squiters which were installed by a local machine shop which can also do Alusil treatments (over 20 years experience), they have all necessary Sunnen machinery for this. I can supply you a 944 S2 104mm block with new Alusil and oil squiters installed.
About the ECU I will have another original from Porsche Motorsport 944 turbo cup and Porsche made on 90´s a remapping chip that fit on the stocks DME\KLR that modified the ignition and injection maps for race. At this moment I use the other car with this ECU on races at 3 bar fuel pressure and never failure. I think it´s the easiest and cheapiest solution for the management system of the 3.0 l engine.
09-18-2009, 11:24 AM
#26
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Thread Starter
As i wrote earlier no need to send parts from Europe to USA for repairing or modifications.
If you use 2.5L or 3.0L 944 block oil squiters must be installed, so there is a need of modification. We have use 968 squiters which were installed by a local machine shop which can also do Alusil treatments (over 20 years experience), they have all necessary Sunnen machinery for this. I can supply you a 944 S2 104mm block with new Alusil and oil squiters installed.
Your Turbo CUP chips will not work with 3.0L applications properly. I have all '86 to '90 Turbo Cup binary files in my computer and all of them are designed for 2,5L engines. If you use these chips with a 3,0L engine most likely you will run in to problems at least with spark timing which is totally different with bigger engines.
If you use 2.5L or 3.0L 944 block oil squiters must be installed, so there is a need of modification. We have use 968 squiters which were installed by a local machine shop which can also do Alusil treatments (over 20 years experience), they have all necessary Sunnen machinery for this. I can supply you a 944 S2 104mm block with new Alusil and oil squiters installed.
Your Turbo CUP chips will not work with 3.0L applications properly. I have all '86 to '90 Turbo Cup binary files in my computer and all of them are designed for 2,5L engines. If you use these chips with a 3,0L engine most likely you will run in to problems at least with spark timing which is totally different with bigger engines.
Do you have the information about injection times and ignition maps from Porsche 944 cup?? It would be very valuable for me.Another option could be to
use gas with more octanes to compensate the need of less advance spark time with the increase or displacement (correct me if I wrong)
Tell me price about your engine block, but I need also the crank. Thanks
Last edited by ajrlredondo; 09-18-2009 at 01:33 PM.
09-18-2009, 11:43 AM
#27
Nordschleife Master
If you want reliability, drivability and power you need to have fuel and ignition maps tuned for your engine. Running old turbo cup chips is not a good idea!
The ignition map is the most important thing and the reason why you should not run the turbo cup chips on your 3.0l.
The ignition map is the most important thing and the reason why you should not run the turbo cup chips on your 3.0l.
09-18-2009, 12:21 PM
#28
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Thread Starter
Photos of my project
I put some pictures about my project. The next job I will do is to built the rollcage.
Last edited by ajrlredondo; 03-10-2010 at 12:20 PM.