ITB Intake Manifold interest
09-17-2009, 04:59 PM
#106
Rennlist Junkie Forever
BTW Chris...
Re: the picture of the rod with the ITB's...
Those "couplings" connecting each pair of butterflys on each twin barrel throttle body are a big problem as well. Those are the same ones that TWM uses. I hate those things. They have play which, unless you're using a return spring per butterfly, will not be perfectly synched (and I can see that this is not the case on this engine).
TonyG
Re: the picture of the rod with the ITB's...
Those "couplings" connecting each pair of butterflys on each twin barrel throttle body are a big problem as well. Those are the same ones that TWM uses. I hate those things. They have play which, unless you're using a return spring per butterfly, will not be perfectly synched (and I can see that this is not the case on this engine).
TonyG
09-17-2009, 05:16 PM
#107
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No it won't, because that will stop. This thread, started by LR, will get back on course for the benefit of the community as a whole, and this won't become a vendor confrontation as well.
Back on track, now...
Back on track, now...
09-17-2009, 05:33 PM
#108
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67, you stated...
The intake looks good. If you want some feedback, I'd make sure you have sufficient room above the bellmouth for runner #4. You need to have a volume above the entry that will fit a sphere with a radius 1.5 times the radius of the runner. The "picture" is a scoop of ice cream in a cone (where part is down in the runner). You may, it is hard to tell from the picture. If you can make the plenum surfaces less flat, that would help with noise and durability (fatigue), as well.
I'm interested in the radius test you mention. Do you mean at the very outside of the radiused inlet on
the plenum plate, or the 50mm opening after the radius? Those two are quite different.
This goes 45mm blade, tapered up to 50mm, then our radius in the plenum plate which could
be 70mm at the outer edge.
The intake looks good. If you want some feedback, I'd make sure you have sufficient room above the bellmouth for runner #4. You need to have a volume above the entry that will fit a sphere with a radius 1.5 times the radius of the runner. The "picture" is a scoop of ice cream in a cone (where part is down in the runner). You may, it is hard to tell from the picture. If you can make the plenum surfaces less flat, that would help with noise and durability (fatigue), as well.
I'm interested in the radius test you mention. Do you mean at the very outside of the radiused inlet on
the plenum plate, or the 50mm opening after the radius? Those two are quite different.
This goes 45mm blade, tapered up to 50mm, then our radius in the plenum plate which could
be 70mm at the outer edge.
__________________
Mike or Dave Lindsey
www.lindseyracing.com
U.S. 1-877-943-3565
Other 1-405-947-0137
Mike or Dave Lindsey
www.lindseyracing.com
U.S. 1-877-943-3565
Other 1-405-947-0137
09-17-2009, 07:13 PM
#110
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Not much different as the intake sounds are nicely muffled by the turbo and intercooler.
09-17-2009, 07:20 PM
#111
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One last small thread detour…
Replaced the ‘sloppy’ rod ends with some very nice ones – problem solved. Its not my favorite solution – but the project in question was a ‘hot rod’ owned by a prototype machinist – he really likes the look. We did a lot of interesting thing – reversed the throttle plate rotation in half the throttles for a ‘balance’ linkage.
My misunderstanding earlier – I thought you were saying that the tec3 would not run the ITB in MAP mode but the others would. Yes, MAF mode is easier to tune…but I still believe that MAP is more accurate – and it can be made to work well if you are a Tec junkie!
BTW Chris...
Re: the picture of the rod with the ITB's...
Those "couplings" connecting each pair of butterflys on each twin barrel throttle body are a big problem as well. Those are the same ones that TWM uses. I hate those things. They have play which, unless you're using a return spring per butterfly, will not be perfectly synched (and I can see that this is not the case on this engine).
TonyG
Re: the picture of the rod with the ITB's...
Those "couplings" connecting each pair of butterflys on each twin barrel throttle body are a big problem as well. Those are the same ones that TWM uses. I hate those things. They have play which, unless you're using a return spring per butterfly, will not be perfectly synched (and I can see that this is not the case on this engine).
TonyG
My misunderstanding earlier – I thought you were saying that the tec3 would not run the ITB in MAP mode but the others would. Yes, MAF mode is easier to tune…but I still believe that MAP is more accurate – and it can be made to work well if you are a Tec junkie!
09-17-2009, 07:52 PM
#112
Rennlist Junkie Forever
One last small thread detour…
Replaced the ‘sloppy’ rod ends with some very nice ones – problem solved. Its not my favorite solution – but the project in question was a ‘hot rod’ owned by a prototype machinist – he really likes the look. We did a lot of interesting thing – reversed the throttle plate rotation in half the throttles for a ‘balance’ linkage.
My misunderstanding earlier – I thought you were saying that the tec3 would not run the ITB in MAP mode but the others would. Yes, MAF mode is easier to tune…but I still believe that MAP is more accurate – and it can be made to work well if you are a Tec junkie!
Replaced the ‘sloppy’ rod ends with some very nice ones – problem solved. Its not my favorite solution – but the project in question was a ‘hot rod’ owned by a prototype machinist – he really likes the look. We did a lot of interesting thing – reversed the throttle plate rotation in half the throttles for a ‘balance’ linkage.
My misunderstanding earlier – I thought you were saying that the tec3 would not run the ITB in MAP mode but the others would. Yes, MAF mode is easier to tune…but I still believe that MAP is more accurate – and it can be made to work well if you are a Tec junkie!
And MAP on a common plenum is far easier than MAP on an ITB setup.
TonyG
09-17-2009, 09:13 PM
#113
Nordschleife Master
This thread was created by a RL site Sponsor to gauage interest on their product/s, so out of fairness to them, I don't think in this thread it's professionally appropriate to make a 'plug' about another vendor and their competing products. That said, out of respect to Lindsey, let's stay focused on them please.
Thanks, and back to the program...
Thanks, and back to the program...
Nope...
09-17-2009, 10:55 PM
#115
Nordschleife Master
I personally love the idea of a vendor doing something "outside the box", While I doubt I will ever buy the ITBs, I am sure there are some who will... just as there have been those who have already used them.
That having been said, and the point of the smileys, was to make my statement that I would LOVE to see this thread get back on track... To the OP... Good stuff, now lets see it finished up and dyno'd...
To our other wonderful vendors, "can't we all get along"
To the MODs... Thank you for keeping us safe...
And most of all to the people reading this, thank you, for it is you who will buy this kit, and make another vendor stick in this game for a while longer, so we can all enjoy a wide range of pieces to buy for our street or track car...any time someone is doing something as a kit to compete with another kit they are already doing, they take a risk, but if noone buys everyone looses..
That having been said, and the point of the smileys, was to make my statement that I would LOVE to see this thread get back on track... To the OP... Good stuff, now lets see it finished up and dyno'd...
To our other wonderful vendors, "can't we all get along"
To the MODs... Thank you for keeping us safe...
And most of all to the people reading this, thank you, for it is you who will buy this kit, and make another vendor stick in this game for a while longer, so we can all enjoy a wide range of pieces to buy for our street or track car...any time someone is doing something as a kit to compete with another kit they are already doing, they take a risk, but if noone buys everyone looses..
09-18-2009, 12:48 AM
#116
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Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya!
I agree with TonyG, running an ITB setup while still retainging the MAP will leave the door open for alot of tuning issues. It would make sense to keep a log style intake. But that's just the .02cents from an N/A guy with turbo experience on everything but a 944...
I agree with TonyG, running an ITB setup while still retainging the MAP will leave the door open for alot of tuning issues. It would make sense to keep a log style intake. But that's just the .02cents from an N/A guy with turbo experience on everything but a 944...
09-18-2009, 04:59 AM
#117
Nordschleife Master
Or you tune fuel vs TPS with MAP compensation, which is pretty common on ITB setups.
With a little MAP-manifold I'm sure it will work fine with Motronic DME. Perhaps some adjustments needed on the TPS enrichment map.
With a little MAP-manifold I'm sure it will work fine with Motronic DME. Perhaps some adjustments needed on the TPS enrichment map.
09-18-2009, 09:51 AM
#118
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I am a site sponser and would like to say that your intake looks real nice! Too bad your brother couldn't get over his issues with us, because we could have been working with each other all these years instead of against each other
Tim, we have never had an interest in working with you or your company. Thanks for the comments
though.
Tim, we have never had an interest in working with you or your company. Thanks for the comments
though.
09-18-2009, 10:12 AM
#119
Drifting
I am a site sponser and would like to say that your intake looks real nice! Too bad your brother couldn't get over his issues with us, because we could have been working with each other all these years instead of against each other
Tim, we have never had an interest in working with you or your company. Thanks for the comments
though.
Tim, we have never had an interest in working with you or your company. Thanks for the comments
though.
